Everywhere I look everybody is raving about him, so much to the point where they forgot that KG may potentially be on the table. It's gone as far as hearing and seeing that Artest is a Top 5 player in the league. He is great talent, no doubt about that, but other than his defense what's so special about him? He gets 18-20 PPG but shots a low FG percent in addition he is not even a PG and averages close to 3 TPG and we all know about his distractions from his attitude and all of his off court antics. The guy is a relentless beast when on the court but for the most part is he really that player people are making him out to be?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">Everywhere I look everybody is raving about him, so much to the point where they forgot that KG may potentially be on the table. It's gone as far as hearing and seeing that Artest is a Top 5 player in the league. He is great talent, no doubt about that, but other than his defense what's so special about him? He gets 18-20 PPG but shots a low FG percent in addition he is not even a PG and averages close to 3 TPG and we all know about his distractions from his attitude and all of his off court antics. The guy is a relentless beast when on the court but for the most part is he really that player people are making him out to be?</div> He's never avg 3 TO's per game 2.3 isn't bad for his career, considering the minutes he gets per game, plus he gives you 3 assist per game, but those numbers are overrated Since when 49% FG Shooting on 18 ppg is overrated? Stop hating, just stop.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's never avg 3 TO's per game 2.3 isn't bad for his career, considering the minutes he gets per game, plus he gives you 3 assist per game, but those numbers are overrated</div> Well to me at least 2.77 turnovers is about as equvilaent to 3 TPG. But hey, that's just me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Since when 49% FG Shooting on 18 ppg is overrated?</div> It's funny how you use his career TPG stat as an argument for yourself, but you failed to mention his career FG% in which is 42%. But that aside, the last two seasons he shots 42-43% which is not very high. I'm not counting this season because like most of his career indicates he doesn't shot a high FG% and his 46% shooting may eventually go down. Now if he gets traded you can most def. expect it to go down because where ever he lands he will be asked to do a lot since he is such a hot commodity right now. And as for the 49% shooting, come on that was in his suspension season. Give me a break, he only played 7 games.
Well if you knew basketball you wouldn't say Artest is overrated, at least talent wise. Before this trade demand you heard a lot of people barking that he may be the best SF in the league because of his overall play. While that may be an exaggeration I will certainly agree to anyone saying he is a top 3 player at his position. The only thing that you can pin on Artest is his offcourt problems, which happen to be the biggest issue regarding him. On the court, no Artest is not overrated.
The reason I brough this thread up was because I've seen many analyst say that Artest is a Top 5-10 player in this league. And in this forum and other forums people agree with that. And it's not just a handful, there are tons of people. I personally could never see myself ranking Artest over: Shaquille O'Neal Tim Duncan Kevin Garnett Kobe Bryant Tracy McGrady Allen Iverson LeBron James Dwyane Wade Amare Stoudemire Steve Nash/Dirk Nowitzki There would be a difference if you say he is Top 5-10 in terms of both sides of the game(offense and defendse) but overall? I don't think so.
First of all, no one forgot about KG so don't turn this into a KG vs Artest thing because the reason Artest is such a big deal is because he definately going to get traded. Personally, i thought ranking a guys "both sides game"(offense and defense) is the same as overall ranking, if not, what is? Lastly, you are hating, artest is an all-star talent, you ask what makes him so special outside of his defense? what makes kirelinko so special outside of his defense? What makes him special is his defence but what makes him better is his ability to play offense. The guy may not be a #1 scoring option but he is capable of scoring. Look at Big Ben, is he overrated becaues he mostly relys on his defense. I just don't get how you can say he is overrated, if you factor in his personality and trouble caused, you can't say he's overrated becaues the common public doesn't like him. If you're saying his talent is overrated(leaving out things like off the court issue) then you're wrong as well because the guy is full of talent.
Do you know how rare defense is in todays nba? you either have players who can average 20 ppg and can't play any d for their life (VC) or you just have defensive specialists who can't really score much (bowen, ai2) Artest combines both, not since pippen has somebody done that so well.
I don't consider Artest overrated, he's an All-Star and former DPOY. He can make an impact on both ends of the court for your team and he does it consistently every night. KG was available, but since the TWolves have been winning and lead their division, those rumors have ended. Plus KG's contract makes it a little harder to work with. With Artest, he's highly underpaid, based on the market value for the caliber of player he is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, no one forgot about KG so don't turn this into a KG vs Artest thing because the reason Artest is such a big deal is because he definately going to get traded.</div> Reasonable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, i thought ranking a guys "both sides game"(offense and defense) is the same as overall ranking, if not, what is?</div> Overall just doesn?t mean talent, it means that you take into account the intangibles which are leadership, heart, conduct, poise, dedication and things of that nature. In a nutshell ranking players overall is like determining who has the most overall impact the game and teammates. In terms of offense and defense AK47 is a Top 5-10 player in this league and so is Shawn Marion, Iverson wouldn't even crack the Top 10 if it's in that essence. See what I'm saying? So in terms of offense/defense Artest is Top 5, but again I've seen him labeled as Top 5-10 overall which in my eyes he is certainly not and at the end of day all I was asking is if you guys agree with me or disagree. It?s not that hard to comprehend. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Lastly, you are hating, artest is an all-star talent,</div> As much as I hate to say this...But...O'RLY? I never knew Artest was an All-Star talent! Please tell me where I said he wasn't. And what this whole thing about me hating on him? Give me a break. The guy was born not to far from me in QB and I have love for all of basketball players out of NY. My cousin went to LaSalla with him and till this day he has Artest cellular phone #. I've met and shoke hands with Artest on more than easily ten occasions, I don't personally know the man but me hating on him would be the last thing I?d do. He was even generous to me tickets(not directly, but through my cousin) to go see him take on the Nets. So the last thing you could say is me hating the man. Where does it even indicate that I was hating on him from the get go? I clearly brought up my argument and that is that, what does that have to do with hating? Are you just saying that in attempt to try and make my argument look irrelevant because that?s clearly what you are trying to do. If I said something along the lines of ?Artest is not even a good rapper? then I would be hating but again I brought up my points and you say I?m hating? Ha.
I don't really think Ron Artest is an overrated player. HE difinetly isn't better than any of the guys you previously listed Avery, but Ron Artest indeed is a top player in the NBA. IMO he is the best players on the Pacers right now. He is better than Jermaine O'Neal. Not only is he a top 2 perimeter defender along with Bruce Bowen he can also get you 20 PPG. IMO that is pretty impressive and not many guys can make that much of an impact on the defensive end and still be that good offensively. I kind of agree with you about everyone talking about Artest comnig to their team and how good they'l be. People making those kind of threads may be overrating him. Needless to say Ron Arteest is a top 20 and MAYBE top 15 player in the league.
It depends. The way some people have talked about him, you'd think that he could be a franchise player. That's not true. He's a great talent on both offense and defense, an All-Star player, and he puts up great numbers. But he isn't a first option. He's one of the League's best 2nd options, but I don't think a team can expect him to be the focal point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">It depends. The way some people have talked about him, you'd think that he could be a franchise player. That's not true. He's a great talent on both offense and defense, an All-Star player, and he puts up great numbers. But he isn't a first option. He's one of the League's best 2nd options, but I don't think a team can expect him to be the focal point.</div> You're exactly right. Rate is a very subjective concept. There's no true way to tell how a player is rated by the public. However, Artest probably isn't one of the top twenty players in the league, and like Chutney just pointed out, he probably wouldn't be a very good offensive focal point. There are also great players who are just as good on the defensive end but don't get half the credit Artest gets, like Shane Battier. With that said, Artest is still without a doubt one of the league's top five defenders, and he's still a much bigger threat on the offensive end of the floor than a lot of the NBA's best defenders like Ben Wallace.
For all you people telling Avery to stop hating, he is not hating. He is questioning if he is overrated bacuse of all the analyst claiming he is a top ten player in this league. I also agree with the it depends on how you look at it, skill wise Artest is an All-Star player but he is definitley not top ten, anybody who says he is is indeed overating him.
Artest is a great defender and can give you 18-23 a night. His impact on the game is certainly known and he added to the Pacers makes them a contender. Without him they are still good but just a first or 2nd round team. There aren't many guys who can shut the top guard from the other team down while still putting up 20 points. Ronnie does that. So no I don't think he is overrated. This is coming from someone who hates Artest's guts. I don't like the guy but respect his game. As for the top 10 question, clearly he isn't. top 10 players are superstars, guys who put up monster stats and lead their team. Obviously Artest isn't top 10 but he is certainly in the 13-18 range to me.
Artest isnt overrated, but why would so many teams want him from what they see he does. Distractions, suspensions alot
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">Well to me at least 2.77 turnovers is about as equvilaent to 3 TPG. But hey, that's just me. It's funny how you use his career TPG stat as an argument for yourself, but you failed to mention his career FG% in which is 42%. But that aside, the last two seasons he shots 42-43% which is not very high. I'm not counting this season because like most of his career indicates he doesn't shot a high FG% and his 46% shooting may eventually go down. Now if he gets traded you can most def. expect it to go down because where ever he lands he will be asked to do a lot since he is such a hot commodity right now. And as for the 49% shooting, come on that was in his suspension season. Give me a break, he only played 7 games.</div> Its funny you said this in the Knicks forum <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">What's your point? So what if he gets 8 APG what does that translate too? Statistics and style of play are so deceiving.</div> Voodoo Child, don't be a homer, Battier is no where near Artest level, he's a servicable player thats it, Artest dominates on both sides of the court and is one of the best perimeter players in the league. You seen this guy in the post? He outmuscles most centers in the NBA. Artest is far from overrated, he's misunderstood, and people like to hate him because they have issues in their own life, so they point the finger to Artest, like he's the bad guy. Pacers are like what? 85 - 30 with Artest or whatever? without him they're like 35-30, just a .500 team really. Who ever lands Artest will reach the NBA Conference matchups.
First of all jOse, what in the world are you talking about? Your confusing me. Are you talking to me or VC? And what does the Marbury issue have to do with Artest? Again, I'm lost.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo Child, don't be a homer, Battier is no where near Artest level, he's a servicable player thats it, Artest dominates on both sides of the court and is one of the best perimeter players in the league. You seen this guy in the post? He outmuscles most centers in the NBA.</div> You must not see a lot of Shane Battier then, because he's just as good, if not better, than Ron Artest on the defensive end of the floor. If you don't believe me, check out this study by Dan Rosenbaum at 82games.com - http://82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm According to his study, Shane Battier is the #1 defensive small forward in the NBA over the likes of Andrei Kirilenko and Bruce Bowen. As for their offensive abilities, Battier is averaging 12.9 ppg this season, and Artest averaged 18.3 ppg in his last full season (2003-2004). Looking at that, you'd probably think that Artest is the better offensive player, but you also need to look at the shot attempts each player takes. Shane Battier is only averaging 9.1 shot attempts per game, whereas Ron Artest averaged 15.2 attempts per game. That's a huge discrepency for such a small difference in ppg. Then you have to look at their shooting percentages. Shane Battier is shooting 52% from the field and 49% from downtown, whereas Ron Artest only shot 42% from the field and 31% from downtown. Artest had the advantage of averaging slightly more playing time than Battier. It's kind of funny that you bring out how strong Artest is and how he outmuscles post players, because Shane Battier was the NCAA Player of the Year as a power forward at Duke and is every bit as strong as Artest. He's even seen a lot of time at the four spot in the NBA, and he's been pretty damn successful at it. In fact, the second most effective rotation that the Grizzlies run has Battier in the post. Battier's greatest attributes can't even be measured with statistics though. He's Mr. Intangible. There's probably not a player in the NBA who works as hard as he does, constantly diving to the floor for loose balls and taking charges. He's really the heart and soul of the team and constantly sacrifices his body for the greater good of the team, and that's more important than any scoring statistic. With all of these things considered, do you still think Artest is that much better?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">Everywhere I look everybody is raving about him, so much to the point where they forgot that KG may potentially be on the table. It's gone as far as hearing and seeing that Artest is a Top 5 player in the league. He is great talent, no doubt about that, but other than his defense what's so special about him? He gets 18-20 PPG but shots a low FG percent in addition he is not even a PG and averages close to 3 TPG and we all know about his distractions from his attitude and all of his off court antics. The guy is a relentless beast when on the court but for the most part is he really that player people are making him out to be?</div> Statistics don't always tell the whole story. Artest is one of them players where statistics don't give you a full picture of what he does on the floor. Stats shouldn't be the only thing to consider when rating a player.
Two words - needs more discipline. Stats wise - he's pretty solid. Could do a little better on the FT line.
