It's coming up on Christmas. Who are your top 5 frontrunners for MVP? I base it on team record, overall play, and intangibles - presence, swagger, leadership, clutchness etc. Mine are: 1. Chauncey - yes this is not a team about stars, but this is an elite point guard here on a team that is killing opponents much like phoenix did last year. 2. Dirk - when you look at the rest of the team, you wonder how the heck they have such a good record? If Avery was on the team, he would be the MVP, but if not him then it has to be Big Blondie. 3. Kobe - he's the guy all his teammates look to to get rid of those weird self-doubt feelings that crop up; if their record continues to improve he is the frontrunner ahead of Dirk or KG or anyone else 4. Baron Davis - is there any doubt how horrible the warriors would be without Baron? 5. Nash - Nash could probably make the hawks a playoff team he is that special 6. D Wade - would be higher if he wasn't still getting used to his new teammates 7. KG - gets the most out of a limited supporting cast WHERE IS ELTON? If you ask me, Sam Cassell lit a fire under this team's a** and THAT's why the Clippers are good. Explain why Cassell has NEVER BEEN ON A BAD TEAM and every team he's gone to has improved - Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc. Brand's always had his numbers, they're just a little flashier this year. WHERE IS LE BRON? They have lost too many games to the better teams, and gotten blown out too many times. He has better players around him than Dirk or KG.
Elton Brand - yes he has a lot around him, but without Brand the Clippers aren't even a playoff team.
You argue that Cassell has more to do with the Clipper's success than Brand? Ok, let's test that. When Brand and Cassell are on the court together, this is how the team has done: 643 minutes 1369 points scored 1269 points allowed With Cassell on the court (with or without Brand): 777 minutes 1629 points scored 1525 points allowed With Brand on the court (with or without Cassell): 873 minutes 1807 points scored 1716 points allowed Let's compare how the Clippers do with only Cassell on the court, versus with only Brand on the court: Only Cassell: 134 minutes 260 points scored 256 points allowed Only Brand: 230 minutes 438 points scored 447 points allowed With only Cassell, the Clippers are slightly better than their opponent, and with only Brand the Clippers are slightly worse than their opponent. Really, a quarter into the season isn't enough time for this slight difference to be very meaningful. But Brand is also playing more minutes and does much more defensively for his team while on the court (I'd say they both have about equal impact on offense). If you take that into account Brand has provided more value this year overall.
i agree chauncey os on fire yet no one seems to care and where's TIm Duncan this guy is always in the list, the spurs are doing great
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5. Nash - Nash could probably make the hawks a playoff team he is that special</div> That actually wouldn't be too special, Chris Paul with the current Hawks core could also make them a playoff team, so could a lot of the good PG's in the league. Brand's numbers aren't just "a little flashier" this year. Unless you've watched the Clippers the past few years, you won't understand the improvement he's made offensively, and even defensively. Brand is not improving because he's playing with Cassell who can pass, Livingston and Jaric when not injured last season could pass too. Brand finally had am off-season without surgery or being injured, so he lost weight, go in even better shape, and improved his already improved jumper even more. One thing Sam along with Mobley change in comparison to last year is that if this was last year and we had injuries to Maggette and Livingston, well Daniel Ewing would be starting at PG, Q-Ross at SG, and Singleton at SF. In those 15 games where those guy are starting, the team struggles and wins 5/15, when they could've gone 9-6, that already changes the W/L record from 41 wins down to 37. The Clippers last season won 37 games, Livingston missed 52 games, Jaric 22 games, Maggette 16 games, Wilcox 28 games, about 5 were DNP-CD's, so 23 games, and Kaman 19 games. The Clippers team last year was not deep enough to handle any losses, especially in both the starting lineup, and the bench. When you have both your starting PG and backup PG out, your starting C and backup C/PF out, and your 1st/2nd option in Maggette missing 16 games, that's already taking away a good amount of wins. Simmons and Brand were playing with scrubs like Brunson for a good amount of games last season. A healthy Clipper team though that was never really present last season for more than 8-10 games, but as healthy as we could get was an above .500 team. A decently healthy team would've won at least 43 games, and more likely 45-47 games. This season, the team is on pace to win 53 games with much better players, and though still not a fully healthy squad, much much much healthier in comparison to previous years. Maybe it's the Clippers fault for having injury prone players, and no bench to speak of in recent years, but whatever it is, Brand has always been the best and most impactful player on these teams, and continues to be this season. Against the Rockets, the team didn't take over till Brand even though he had a bad game, started to hit big shots. Mobley and Cassell also help because they can hit outside shots, so they open up the inside for Brand, but Brand's improved jumper has also made him capable of hitting big shots consistently this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6. D Wade - would be higher if he wasn't still getting used to his new teammates</div> I'm a big Wade fan, but I hate this "getting used to teammates" excuse. I know players do have to adjust to each other, but Wade is not the only guy in the league with new teammates, a lot of players get new teammates, and how quickly you can adjust to them is part of how good you are. It should not be an excuse that "we added 5 new guys, blah blah blah", so did many other teams, you ahd training camp, and after 10 and at most 15 games, you should be used to each other. I know the Heat have had a few injuries, Posey was out for a little Jason Williams has been missing games here and there, and of course Shaq, but it should not be a scapegoat excuse for mediocre performance. My list would go: 1) Tim Duncan - I know, his team is very talented, they have a great coach, and Parker's performance should bring him down, but the best player on the best team in the West, and he plays both end of the court excellently. 2) Elton Brand - Improved just about every aspect of his game, has held it down offensively, defensively, and is carrying his squad to a place they haven't been in a while. 3) Dirk Nowitzki - His numbers are down, but they've had some injuries, Stack, KVH, JHo was out for a while, and they're still winning games. Still not as good as the other Top PF's on the defensive end, but if you win, you can't complain.....until playoff time. 4) Tracy McGrady - Probably a surprising one to most, and to me too. I know the record does not bode well, except for when we look at the with McGrady and without McGrady record. Many expected this team to be very good, and with Tmac back, they're showing us that they can be. While they're only 9-13, they've won something like 5 of 6, and Tmac is truly the reason they win games. 5) Kobe Bryant - Well, at least in the last few games where he's realized that 30 shots a game on low percentages, or taking more shots than the amount of points you score, obviously does not win anyone games. If the Lakers continue on their winning ways, he can be a good candidate, but this is not a 50+ win team right now, so he's not likely to get it come end of year. 6) Kevin Garnett - I don't really want to put him this high, and he's not having one of his better years numbers wise, but how in the world is that team winning games? I'm sorry if any Minnesotta fans think otherwise, but you guys have a pretty crappy supporting cast. Wally, Jaric, and Hudson are good players, not great, good, mostly offensively. Hassell is good defensively, Griffin has sucked offensively this year, but can rebound and block, Kandi is servicable, AC is there, and Richie Frahm get's to play in crunch time for some reason. Seriously, nothing really stands out in any of those guys. 7) Chauncey Billups - Playing under Flip has opened up his game more and allowed him to show his true playmaking ability. Chauncey is playing the best basketball of the guys on the best team in the league. He has a beastly assists to turnover ratio, is shooting very good percentages from all over, and plays both ends of the court. 8) Baron Davis - Obviously his impact was already seen last season. Baron can pass, we know that, he's averaging 10 APG to 3 TPG, very impressive, and while I know he has nice offensive players around him, and can pass very well, the Warriors system is not the most structured offense I've seen, and Dunleavy has been as off as off can be for the most part this season. I didn't want to put him over Nash because of those horrible shooting percentages, which have gone up a little as his hammy healed, but 35% FG amd 29.5% 3PT, sheesh. Baron though has been the more efficient passer, though not having as good a system, and has impact on the defensive end of the floor both man to man and off the ball. 9) Steve Nash - The Suns are winning with Nash at the head of the train. His numbers are a little down in terms of passing efficiency, but he's putting up 18 and 10, shooting good percentages, and being the leader on his team. 10) Lebron James - They had some interesting roadblocks, but Cleveland has played decently well even with their dropoff a few games ago. If they can get everything together and get back on track, they can be a 47 or so win team. HM: Dwyane Wade, Pau Gasol, Michael Redd
No love for AI? I'm not saying he is the MVP but when your averaging 34 and 7.8 your name at least needs to be mentioned in talks. The Lakers are three games over .500, while the 76ers are one game over .500. So what makes Kobe Bryant a MVP candidate over The Answer?
1. Elton Brand 2. Tim Duncan 3. Dirk Nowitzki 4. Chauncy Billups 5. LeBron James 6. Allen Iverson 7. Dwyane Wade Those are my top seven candidates. I have a tough time putting Steve Nash up there when (a) statistically he's not as good, and ( his +/- is actually negative (Phoenix is outscoring opponents by a wider margin with him off the court).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No love for AI? I'm not saying he is the MVP but when your averaging 34 and 7.8 your name at least needs to be mentioned in talks. The Lakers are three games over .500, while the 76ers are one game over .500. So what makes Kobe Bryant a MVP candidate over The Answer?</div> Hey, he is only Top 5 in 19 out of 23 NBA statistical categories and is one of thee most efficient players in the league in addition has his team over .500. Guess that doesn't really mean anything I guess for at least some consideration. But the way I see it, the rankings as of now are very irrelevant. AI could have been #1 or #10, it doesn't really matter. A lot of teams are just starting to get into the thick of things and I'll take the MVP rankings more seriously by the time the 1st half of the season is completed. But for the heck of it, the leading MVP candidate in my books would be Elton Brand.
PFFFFT People thought LeBron should have been MVP last year. He is nowhere near MVP material this year and last year. AI is a worthy competitor, as well as KG. I can't believe no one is saying T-Mac after Nash won the MVP last year. The Rockets are 0-8 without T-Mac and they had a full line up most of the time. I remember when the Suns were 0-6 w/o nash and everyone was screaming out MVP at him. And they are 10-5 with him. We just beat the red hot lakers yesterday with this line up!: PG) Wesley, Moochie(scrub) SG) McGrady, Head(rookie) SF) Bowen(scrub), Graham(scrub) PF) Howard, Swift, Baxter(scrub) CR) Dikembe Yep, without Yao Ming T-Mac won it. He had a nice drive in clutch lay up as well with .3 sec left to finish it. This is how many players we have that CAN'Tplay. 1-Rafer Alston 2-Derek Anderson 3-Jon Barry 4-Dikembe Mutombo 5-Bob Sura 6-Yao Ming I bolded the starters. Even though Sura should be one of our starters. T-Mac wins our games. Plain and simple. He should be the MVP. We just finished a tough 6 game road trip that included 4 games in 5 days with a 5-1 record. <u><font color=""Red""><font size=""7""> T-Mac for MVP 06!</font></font></u> And if not then: 1)AI 2)Nash 3)KG 4)Nowistki 5)Arenas Honorable Mention: Kobe
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He is nowhere near MVP material this year and last year.</div> Care to elaborate? His team is winning, he is having big individual games and so on. What is he doing wrong?
Last year doesn't need an explanation. This year, he has the best supporting cast and still can't even beat Atlanta. Nuff said.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">Last year doesn't need an explanation. This year, he has the best supporting cast and still can't even beat Atlanta. Nuff said.</div> Good point about the supporting cast when Zydrunas didn't play the game against Atlanta. Should they have still won? Yes, but blaming LBJ for a loss against the Hawks (who were coming off a win over SA and just beat Denver) without a center.... not quite fair.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Good point about the supporting cast when Zydrunas didn't play the game against Atlanta. Should they have still won? Yes, but blaming LBJ for a loss against the Hawks (who were coming off a win over SA and just beat Denver) without a center.... not quite fair.</div> So T-Mac did it against the Lakers w/o Yao and all of the players I mentioned above. Zaza was only 7/8/2...Deadly numbers right? LBJ simply isn't MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">So T-Mac did it against the Lakers w/o Yao and all of the players I mentioned above. Zaza was only 7/8/2...Deadly numbers right? LBJ simply isn't MVP.</div> Gimme a break. It's silly to count someone out of the MVP race based on the outcome of a couple games.
Very early for this, but as of now ... 1) Tim Duncan 2) Chauncey Billups 3) Elton Brand 4) Kobe Bryant 5) Allen Iverson 6) Dirk Nowitzki 7) Pau Gasol
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This year, he has the best supporting cast and still can't even beat Atlanta. Nuff said.</div> So let me get this. You're basically saying Tim Duncan should NOT get MVP no matter what because his team lost to the Hawks? What about your boy T-Mac? Let's say the Rockets get everything rolling and everyone is healthy and during a hot streak they end up lossing to the Hawks, would you take his MVP consideration away?
I think it's a tie (atleast IMO) at this point between Brand and Nash...Nash has carried Phoenix and made decent players out of Boris Diaw, Eddie House while Brand has been as solid as a rock for the Clippers, and allows their outside duo of Mobley and Cassell to thrive...
