<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">DENVER ? In the wake of reports that the Seattle SuperSonics and Denver Nuggets are discussing a possible trade, Sonics All-Star guard Ray Allen said he thinks it may be time for general manager Rick Sund to alter the team?s chemistry a bit. ?You don?t always make a change just to be making a change,? Allen said. ?But I think based on just us going up and down, the team is put in a situation where they have to consider an opportunity to shake things up and make it better. Or if it doesn?t make it better, at least try.? The Sonics have discussed a trade with the Nuggets that would send Ronald Murray to Denver in exchange for Earl Watson. Other players on the Sonics? roster would be involved to make the exchanged salaries balance. Before the game Thursday, Murray warmed up on the court and was unavailable for comment. Both Allen and co-captain Rashard Lewis acknowledged that Watson would be a better fit than Murray at reserve point guard. Allen cited the 14 assists the team had in its loss to Minnesota on Wednesday, a game Murray started in place of the injured Luke Ridnour. ?Bob (Weiss) has to make it a mandate to (Murray) that he has to start out (games) getting everybody involved,? Allen said. ?That has to be made a mandate. If a (trade) is made, if something happens, they have to come in here, learn who we have and distribute the ball.? Lewis said Watson may be a better fit as the backup point guard. ?I like Flip as a player and as a person,? Lewis said. ?He is a great scorer. But I don?t know if the organization is looking for a scorer or a guy to run the point and play defense. It depends on what they are looking for. Earl is probably a better defender, more of a point guard.?</div> SOURCE
To be honest it's hard to disagree with any of that, but it still makes me wince to see the two captains openly discussing trading one of their own teammates. Watson would be a much better fit because he is a natural floor leader and he really harasses opposing points, but to talk about this in the media would make for a pretty awkward situation in-house I'd assume.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But I don?t know if the organization is looking for a scorer or a guy to run the point and play defense</div> Then trade Luke for Earl
I've never heard players going on the record lobbying for a player to be traded from their team for no other reason other than they are too aggressive offensively. What prompted this? The fact that Flip isn't going to cater to the needs of his "superstar teammates." Yeah, Flip is a liberal shooter who probably could do a better job getting his teammates involved but for Ray and Rashard to use the media to cry about their lack of shots says alot about their priorities. Flip is a tough minded person but it has to be tough to know that the biggest voices on the team are working behind your back to get you moved from this roster. Is Earl Watson a better fit on this team? He could be but not at 30 million dollars? Have of our roster would have to be traded to make the numbers work (I guess in the new CBA the contracts don't have to match up as equally as they did in the past) and I don't think that the back up point guard is our top priority in our needs assessment. I would argue that we need some bulk underneath that can block shots and score inside. Flip really showed a lot of character not blaming his 1-12 shooting on his dislocated fingers. And for him to come back the next night and be effective enough to score 18 points amid trade rumors shows that he is as tough mentally as they come. I do not think that Flip is playing well this season and I do think that he should incorporate his teammates more and turn the ball over less but I don't need to wake up in the morning and read about how his teammates would rather have another player in his spot on the roster--just b/c he is willing to go after his game. I may not like Bob Weiss passiveness as a coach but I do appreciate that he is giving Flip an opportunity to help the team despite the fact it is obvious that Ray and Sweet Lew would rather have him rot away on the bench.
^ That's exactly what I thought when I read that. Ray is just trying to get him moved because the shots that Flip takes cut into his own. If Ray really wants him traded that badly, at least say so in private to someone in the FO instead of going to the media and potentially messing up any chemistry we might have.
So much for the veteran leadership we so desperately needed with Nate leaving and Weiss taking over. Anyone else the get feeling our locker room's a mess?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">To be honest it's hard to disagree with any of that, but it still makes me wince to see the two captains openly discussing trading one of their own teammates. Watson would be a much better fit because he is a natural floor leader and he really harasses opposing points, but to talk about this in the media would make for a pretty awkward situation in-house I'd assume.</div> Agreed...it is in fact unprofessional that the two just went out and spoke publicly regarding Murray like that...Watson would in fact be a nice fit defensively but this team needs a more firm foundation on that side of the ball...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Roland Hood:</div><div class="quote_post">Then trade Luke for Earl </div> Amen. Trade Luke Ridnour for Earl Watson. The only problem is that denver has George Karl, and Karl would no sooner have a use for Ridnour than he would for a matador.
Well, Ray clarified his comments today: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soni...oninotes01.html <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He has a scorer's mentality," Allen said. "I like Flip when he's in there. He does some good stuff for us. He goes and attacks the basket. Where he gets in trouble is, his mentality sometimes is to score and he's in there a lot in the fourth quarter, and he loses sight of where his teammates are. "The glory goes to the man who makes the last shot, but somebody always has to pass him the ball. When he learns that he can get eight to nine assists a game, then he'll be a better player." </div> Oh so that's what he meant
flip murray look like a guy that smokes weed and get high, just look at his picture on espn or some other websites
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray needs to stop backpedaling and stand behind his words for once.</div> In a word, that comment is ridiculous. Nobody has any idea of what was actually said, besides the players and journalist. Its not a suprise that both Lewis and Ray mentioned how they were mistquoted in the article in a subsequent article by a different writer. Think that maybe, just maybe, Frank Hughes had his own agenda when writing that article? My guess is that an article with the headline "Both Allen, Lewis favor swapping Murray" sells alot more papers than one that says "Both Allen, Lewis refuse to answer directly whether or not they would prefer Watson to Murray" - Frank knows it too, and could easily have led them down a path in which he ignored any praise or comments on how they appreciate what Ron can do to come up with his piece. I find it interesting that in an article entitled as such, there wasn't one direct quote by either player saying they thought he should be moved. Just a good job by a veteran journalist to pick and choose soundbites to build a story out of nothing. Saying Murray should look to set up the offense more isn't exactly the same thing as saying he favors a trade, let alone speculate that Watson is a guy they want more. To criticize Ray for not standing behind his words, without knowing what was even said, is crazy.
How is it ridiculous? Every once in a while Ray gets some balls and says something controversial, then when people get mad he "clarifies what he meant" so that everybody leaves happy. Remember when he made the comments about Kobe? Later that year he "clarified what he meant" for Kobe when the cameras were on the two of them.
Frank Hughes has an obvious agenda about Flip Murray. Every article that I've ever seen written by him in the Tacoma News Tribune downplays his positive contributions and overexaggerates his mishaps. There is no question in my mind that Frank wanted to stir up some controversy at Murray's expense. But the bottom line is that both Ray and Sweet Lew should no better to speculate on a proposed trade regarding one of their teammates. Even when Ray clarified his stance he is still making a point to imply that Flip is selfish and that they would be better off if he would become a pass first point guard. Everyone knows that Flip will never be a prototypical point guard which basically makes Ray's clarification of his first comments remarkably similar to his first comments. The only reason why I think that Ray felt the need to clarify his earlier statement was that even he understood how unprofessional it is to comment about a trade rumor involving one of his teammates. I don't know if he was mandated to make a statement but he doesn't seem to be too remorseful over the fact that he'd prefer Flip to look for him moreso than looking to score. In this instance, Frank Hughes was in the wrong for titling his artilce "Both Allen, Lewis Favor Swapping Murray" when neither one of them directly made that comment--but at the same time Ray and Sweet Lew were totally wrong by inferring that they would support that move when they were prompted by Hughes' questioning. And again Flip showed tremedous class by not going on the record and attacking his teammates for those obvious unprofessional comments. Instead he tried his best in the games that followed to help his team attempt to get victories over the Nuggets and the Grizzlies. Too bad that taking the high road doesn't garner as much attention as criticizing a teammate would.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">How is it ridiculous? Every once in a while Ray gets some balls and says something controversial, then when people get mad he "clarifies what he meant" so that everybody leaves happy. Remember when he made the comments about Kobe? Later that year he "clarified what he meant" for Kobe when the cameras were on the two of them. </div> What did he even say in the first article, that Ron needs to pass the ball more - be more of a set-up man for the good of the offense? Because thats exactly what he said in the second article when he clarified what he meant - just added the important pieces that Frank convienently left out in order to make his story more appealing. So he didn't back down - just stood up for himself when his comments were likely totally taken out of context, so its ridiculous for you to say he backed down from what he said - just what did he back down from? If it was a tv interview, Ray said he thought the team would be better off with Watson than Flip when asked directly, than fine - bash him all you want if he backpedals. But I don't think its fair to call him out for little snippets that are used to frame his stance on Flip in a completely negative light by leaving out all positive caveats in a print article that was, IMO, purposely fashioned completely to stir the pot. Earlier in the year, when Rad complained about minutes, I remember Weiss making a comment about how he needs more consistent D for him to get those minutes. Follow up that comment with the question of "would you like Rad to take pride in defense like a Ron Artest type player?" - if he answers yes than bang - those remarks could just as easily been used to create a "Weiss favors trading Artest for Rad" piece, when he said nothing of the sort.
Wow, I feel bad for Flip, he goes out there and tries to play his game, and then goes back into the locker room to find out that the 2 star players want him traded hahah..That sucks for him. But I agree with Ray and Shard, now lets get this trade happening.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">Earlier in the year, when Rad complained about minutes, I remember Weiss making a comment about how he needs more consistent D for him to get those minutes. Follow up that comment with the question of "would you like Rad to take pride in defense like a Ron Artest type player?" - if he answers yes than bang - those remarks could just as easily been used to create a "Weiss favors trading Artest for Rad" piece, when he said nothing of the sort.</div> Yeah, you made up a nice little scenario there that couldn't have happened but DIDN'T. Ray and Rashard actually said that they would favor a trade of Flip. That's completely different than Weiss wanting Rad to play D to earn his minutes. Why would you say that the team might be better off with someone gone, and then the next day compliment that person's game and say how they could be better? That is called backpedaling. Here is what I believe happened. A) Flip told Ray that he didn't appreciate his comments, or he made it apparent to him in some way. Ray got some inside info that made it clear that Flip will not be traded. Either way, Ray "clarified" his comments to rebuild the chemistry in the locker room. So before you call my comments ridiculous, read between the lines. Just because he's our franchise player doesn't mean that he can do/say no wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, you made up a nice little scenario there that couldn't have happened but DIDN'T. Ray and Rashard actually said that they would favor a trade of Flip. That's completely different than Weiss wanting Rad to play D to earn his minutes. Why would you say that the team might be better off with someone gone, and then the next day compliment that person's game and say how they could be better? That is called backpedaling. Here is what I believe happened. A) Flip told Ray that he didn't appreciate his comments, or he made it apparent to him in some way. Ray got some inside info that made it clear that Flip will not be traded. Either way, Ray "clarified" his comments to rebuild the chemistry in the locker room. So before you call my comments ridiculous, read between the lines. Just because he's our franchise player doesn't mean that he can do/say no wrong.</div> Ray and Rashard actually said they favored a trade of Flip for Watson???? Where did they say that? Keep looking, you'll never find them say they wanted that trade - just yourself buying into Frank Hughes' joke of a piece. If your going to argue, at least back up your points with some substance - give me a quote where Ray or Rashard said they would favor a trade of Murray for Watson???????????? Where is it??????? You'll find a bunch of snippets, like Ray saying Ron needs to be more of a distributor, and Lew saying he doesn't know if MGMT is looking for a backup PG who is a scorer first/passer second, not what HE thought the backup should be - but at no point do they say they want him gone, want him traded, etc. If they would have said it directly, it would have been included for sure - that much I'm sure we can agree on. Do they actually think Flip should be traded? I couldn't tell you, maybe, maybe not - THEY DIDN'T SAY - but I'm not about to start asking them a bunch of semi-related, leading questions and then begin twisting what they do say to fit an agenda, followed by criticizing them for coming out and saying they were misquoted. Whats the difference between the scenerio I conjured up and the one that Frank Hughes wrote about??? The only difference is that I posted mine on a message board, and he wrote his in the TNT. Both are lightyears away from what was really said, and both use quotes intended to mislead the reader into thinking someone said something entirely different than what they actually did. So your asking me to "read between the lines"????? How about you try going back and reading the article again, finding me any quote where Ray or Shard DIRECTLY said they thought Earl was a better fit. All you'll find is Frank Hughes putting a clever spin on comments that, when placed properly, COULD be construed to make a reader believe Ray/Shard said something they didn't. You can read between the lines all you want, its not gonna get you anywhere but believing a bunch of bunk that Frank Hughes pieced together in attempts to throw gas on the fire. And whats that "just because he's our franchise player doesn't mean that he can do/say no wrong" garbage? When did I say he couldn't do any wrong? I actually think a time when trade rumors are swirling around a teammate is a terrible time to come out and say "so and so needs to do this more..." - but just because I think that isn't the right time to voice those concerns, doesn't mean I'm going to jump on his back for defending himself against something he didn't say in the first place...
