<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray and Rashard actually said they favored a trade of Flip for Watson???? Where did they say that? Keep looking, you'll never find them say they wanted that trade - just yourself buying into Frank Hughes' joke of a piece.</div> Apparently reading between the lines would be too much of a stretch for you, since you can't even seem to read the very literal words that I am posting. I NEVER once mentioned Watson, or that Ray and Shard said they would prefer him. I simply said that: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray and Rashard actually said that they would favor a trade of Flip. </div> From now on when you respond to my posts please read the words that I wrote rather than listening to what the voices in your head are saying. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">Whats the difference between the scenerio I conjured up and the one that Frank Hughes wrote about??? The only difference is that I posted mine on a message board, and he wrote his in the TNT. Both are lightyears away from what was really said, and both use quotes intended to mislead the reader into thinking someone said something entirely different than what they actually did.</div> The difference is that if Weiss said something like "Vlad needs to play better defense like Artest," you cannot assume that a trade for Artest is in the works. You are just being silly, not "misleading the reader", but just being downright silly and presumptious. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So your asking me to "read between the lines"????? How about you try going back and reading the article again, finding me any quote where Ray or Shard DIRECTLY said they thought Earl was a better fit. </div> No I won't do that, because I never so much as mentioned Watson's name in one of my posts. GO BACK AND READ THEM and you will see that I am right. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Apparently reading between the lines would be too much of a stretch for you, since you can't even seem to read the very literal words that I am posting. I NEVER once mentioned Watson, or that Ray and Shard said they would prefer him. I simply said that: "Ray and Rashard actually said that they would favor a trade of Flip." .</div> I'm sorry, you never mentioned Watson, my mistake - but you still run into problems, because Ray and Rashard never actually said they would favor a trade of Flip - so since you seem so convinced that they did, please point it out to me - keep looking, look real hard...oops, its not there this time either. And save me the "read between the lines" routine - I'm relying on direct quotes to make a point, and your using inference and the tainted agenda of a beat writer to jump to conclusions. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">From now on when you respond to my posts please read the words that I wrote rather than listening to what the voices in your head are saying..</div> The funny thing is that is my mistake of saying you commented on Watson has no bearing on the argument at hand at all, (I apologize again for doing it) but at the end of the day, it doesn't make a difference to me whether you said they wanted to trade Flip for earl, or that they simply favored trading Flip. Ray and Shard didn't mention favoring a trade of Flip, period - that was my point - you once again seem to disagree, but failed to back up your stance with anything but resorting to this childish "voices in your head" nonsense. If thats the only point of contention you have with my response, then you don't have much of a point at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference is that if Weiss said something like "Vlad needs to play better defense like Artest," you cannot assume that a trade for Artest is in the works. You are just being silly, not "misleading the reader", but just being downright silly and presumptious.</div> Now I'm beginning to think you didn't read the article at all. Ray's comment was this... “You don’t always make a change just to be making a change,” Allen said. “But I think based on just us going up and down, the team is put in a situation where they have to consider an opportunity to shake things up and make it better. Or if it doesn’t make it better, at least try.” Is he talking about a specific player here? the coach? himself? Now later in the article (and who knows how much later in the conversation)... “Bob (Weiss) has to make it a mandate to (Murray) that he has to start out (games) getting everybody involved,” Allen said. “That has to be made a mandate. If a (trade) is made, if something happens, they have to come in here, learn who we have and distribute the ball.” Rashard's comment was this... “I like Flip as a player and as a person,” Lewis said. “He is a great scorer. But I don’t know if the organization is looking for a scorer or a guy to run the point and play defense. It depends on what they are looking for. Earl is probably a better defender, more of a point guard.” And you somehow pull out of that..."Ray and Rashard actually said that they would favor a trade of Flip." ??????? How can you get that out of what they said??? And please don't give me the "read between the lines" dog and pony show again. The point of the Artest scenerio was for it to be "downright silly" - which is what the Hughes article was in the first place... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">No I won't do that, because I never so much as mentioned Watson's name in one of my posts. GO BACK AND READ THEM and you will see that I am right. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.</div> Once again, sorry for the Watson mistake. So I went back and read your posts like instructed, but now could you go back and find where they said they "favored a trade of Flip." - its funny how upset you get when you think I'm trying to put words in your mouth, but so easily put them in Ray and Shards...
No hard feelings about you misreading my comments, I just wasn't sure if you really misread my comments or if you were just trying to put words in my mouth on purpose. Anyway, look at what Shard said: "But I don’t know if the organization is looking for a scorer or a guy to run the point and play defense. It depends on what they are looking for. Earl is probably a better defender, more of a point guard." You are right, they never actually came out and SAID that they want Flip gone. However, it is clear that we don't have a point guard that can defend, and it is one of our most obvious weaknesses. We don't need a point guard that can score, we need someone who can get others involved (as Ray has said). From Rashard's comments I gather that he feels that Watson would be a better defender and overall point guard (distributor). Once again, that's not to say that they want Watson, but they want someone with those abilities, which are things that Flip doesn't do. That's why I think they they want Flip traded. Now you're going to say why Flip and not Ridnour? Well I don't know about that. But this article wasn't about Luke. Besides, supposedly Luke was starting last year because Nate was pressured by the front office to play him. So if the franchise would choose Luke over AD with Flip barely playing, they would certainly choose Luke over Flip as trade bait.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">No hard feelings about you misreading my comments, I just wasn't sure if you really misread my comments or if you were just trying to put words in my mouth on purpose. Anyway, look at what Shard said: "But I don?t know if the organization is looking for a scorer or a guy to run the point and play defense. It depends on what they are looking for. Earl is probably a better defender, more of a point guard." You are right, they never actually came out and SAID that they want Flip gone. However, it is clear that we don't have a point guard that can defend, and it is one of our most obvious weaknesses. We don't need a point guard that can score, we need someone who can get others involved (as Ray has said). From Rashard's comments I gather that he feels that Watson would be a better defender and overall point guard (distributor). Once again, that's not to say that they want Watson, but they want someone with those abilities, which are things that Flip doesn't do. That's why I think they they want Flip traded. Now you're going to say why Flip and not Ridnour? Well I don't know about that. But this article wasn't about Luke. Besides, supposedly Luke was starting last year because Nate was pressured by the front office to play him. So if the franchise would choose Luke over AD with Flip barely playing, they would certainly choose Luke over Flip as trade bait.</div> I'm totally with you - the article, and even the comments are painted to give the impression that both players would prefer a different direction. Maybe they even do for all we know. My whole problem with what the article appears to show, however, is that Lew specifically said "it depends on what mgmt is looking for" and had no comment on the subject personally besides a no-brainer comparison between the two players skills. My guess is what got that response was a question from Hughes along the lines of..."there are obvious differences between the two players, what do you think management is looking for in a PG, and what are those differences between the two?" - and from that you would get a response such as Rashard gave. As far as Ray, he very well included the RM praise that popped up in the second article in the interview with Frank, but Hughes ommitted that portion for the sake of the article. Ray's comments were directed at what he thought Murray should do, and not that he didn't think he was capable of doing them. Same with Lew, who only mentioned differences is skills, and not what he thought would be more beneficial to the team. I guess what really irritates me about the whole thing, is Frank Hughes puking up some garbage journalism and getting national recognition (hoopshype.com running it as a top headline) for his work - I think its a joke. We may very well be better off with Earl than Flip on the team, but I just don't get it out of any comments I've read from the two. As far as the Luke vs. Flip thing - it never really crossed my mind until you mentioned it, but I don't put much stock in mgmt forcing Nate's hand last year to do anything - on one hand you have things like that swirling around, and on the other you have rumors swirling saying Nate coached his last year here his way - so who really knows. But I do agree that mgmt looks at Luke as the future at PG, so its probably a moot point like you said. So now that we've pretty much sorted this out, what do YOU think we should do if this offer was on the table - Earl and his huge contract for Flip/Vitay????
