Ric Bucher says we're in the lead to get Artest.

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by upsidedownside7, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Run BJM
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  1. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I'm sure some of you guys have already heard it but the deal is:

    Murphy + Pietrus for Artest/Foster

    Personally I would be suprised if Indiana took on Murphy's contract. I think a deal is going to go down with us soon. The only reason I see Indy taking Murph is because they like him and we have the TE which would absorb some of his contract. I still think it's going to be the deal with Biedrins/Pietrus/Cheaney for Artest but hey, if they let us keep Biedrins I'm all for it.
     
    upsidedownside7, Jan 3, 2006
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  2. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If that is our offer I would assume that its the best offer Indy has. They said they wouldnt accept big contracts but I dont think they are going to get any expiring contracts that will help the team immediately. I would pull the trigger on that trade, right now we have a horrible defensive frontline, and this trade would help us in that aspect immediately. Foster is a nice on-ball defender, hustle guy, and rebounder and Artest is obviously a great defender but also a very good post player and perimiter scorer.

    This could be pretty risky for us giving up our best rebounder and third option as well as a promising young SG but I think the reward far outweighs it. I'm willing to bet that Artest won't do anything as stupid as he did in the last year or two, he hasnt done anything too crazy since the brawl (except demand a trade). He wants to get a nice fat contract once his current one expires and he knows he could threaten that if he continues to act like an idiot.

    Diogu is our PF of the future whether we have Murphy or not, at least we dump Murphys contract and we can move Diogu to his natural position, not to mention that Murphy never passes the damn ball, boxes out, or plays help defense. Without getting rid of Murphy we also wouldnt have enough shots for Artest so I think we'd have to give him up in an Artest deal. Pietrus is a good backup and prospect but there is a slim chance that we re-sign him, knowing this then it seems like a damn good deal to get a top 15 talent in the whole league.

    Worst case scenario, Ron destroys team chemistry and we have to trade him for nothing or let him walk in free agency. That would leave us with a core of Baron, J-Rich, Diogu, Dunleavy which is the same as now, but without Murphy (who will likely be phased out by Diogu anyway). We would have a little more cap flexibility to re-sign our young talent without Murphy's big contract.

    Best case scenario, Artest plays well here with only minor problems and we got a top 15 talent/lockdown defender for a soon-to-be-expendable PF with a long contract and a young SG stuck behind our star SG who we wont sign anyway.
     
    Run BJM, Jan 3, 2006
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  3. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah, I agree with all of it. It would be risky to ship our 3rd offense option and best rebounder. And, it never helps when you get rid of your best rebounder when you are the worst rebounding team in the league. Also, there is a good chance that our worst scenario can actually be fulfilled. But still, upside is huge, and I would take this gamble anytime...
     
    Kwan1031, Jan 3, 2006
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  4. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I agree with all of it. It would be risky to ship our 3rd offense option and best rebounder. And, it never helps when you get rid of your best rebounder when you are the worst rebounding team in the league. Also, there is a good chance that our worst scenario can actually be fulfilled. But still, upside is huge, and I would take this gamble anytime...</div>
    Yeah thats my biggest fear is that we become just a horrible rebounding team and it costs us big time and we miss the POs or something like that. I'm hoping Foster could pick up the slack but I'm not sure how he is on the defensive boards (but I guarantee he'd get us 5 extra possessions a night). Also, Murphy absolutely never boxes out so if he doesnt get the rebound then no one on our team is. I think Foster/Artest can get as many rebounds as Murphy/Dun.

    But again, the reward is SO great. We would be able so stop the Kobes/ Ray Allens/ T-Macs/ ect. from torching us every damn game. That alone would be huge but he also scores 20 ppg. AND he would give us a veteran post presence in addition to Ike. Dunleavy could be a super-sub relieving the 1-4 positions and it seems like he plays alot better without Murphy, who has the same skillset/role on the team.
     
    Run BJM, Jan 3, 2006
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  5. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah I'd do it too. Our help defense is utterly horrible. Murphy and Dunleavy are equally terrible playing help defense. Dunleavy is a better one on one defender than Murph. With guys not loafing around it will put guys in better spots to grab boards. Murphy is pretty good but he shouldn't be given the green light to shoot everytime. On talent Artest is superior to Murph. Diogu is a better scorer and Murph isn't a center and he makes a ton of money so trading him doesn't seem far fetched. The warriors PR department has hyped Murphy to be one of the cornerstones of the team and now they trade him? He's been hyped to immeasurable proportions which I never understood and now will trade him for a risky player like Artest? Doesn't add up.

    I'd love to keep Biedrins and trade Murphy. Just don't see why Indiana does that unless they particularly love Murphy and I personally think he's quite overrated. Something just feels odd but hell, I'd do it.
     
    upsidedownside7, Jan 3, 2006
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  6. Gohn

    Gohn JBB JustBBall Member

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    I hope that trade goes through. Hate to see Pietrus go, but I'm not a big fan of Murphy.

    Probably won't see that trade go through until after the Warriors Indiana game though.

    I wonder what the lineups would be if the trade goes through, though I doubt it will happen.
     
    Gohn, Jan 3, 2006
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  7. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    I agree with it all as well...get this trade done and I'm a happy camper.

    Knowing Monty, the lineups would be as follows:

    C - Diogu
    PF - Dunleavy
    SF - Artest
    SG - Rich
    PG - Baron

    [​IMG]

    But, if it were up to me...

    C - Biendrins (Foyle is better on the bench, we know this)
    PF - Diogu
    SF - Artest
    SG - Rich
    PG - Baron

    Hmm, what happened to Dunleavy? Well, the guy has to earn his minutes now...tough luck.
     
    Doctor Kajita, Jan 3, 2006
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  8. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    If it were up to me I would pull that trade off in a heart beat. The starting 5 would be...

    Davis
    Jrich
    Artest
    Diogu
    Taft

    with this team off the bench...

    Fisher
    Ellis
    Dunleavy
    Zarko
    Biedrens
     
    Warriorfansnc93, Jan 3, 2006
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  9. Gohn

    Gohn JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah, I like Taft. He played well against Memphis. Also I'd like to note that he didn't pick up two fouls in under one minute like Diogu, Biedrins, and Zarko. Those guys are foul magnets. That's my main worry is foul trouble will be a pain to deal with without murphy.

    Also I wouldn't start Dunleavy at PF.
     
    Gohn, Jan 3, 2006
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  10. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gohn:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I like Taft. He played well against Memphis. Also I'd like to note that he didn't pick up two fouls in under one minute like Diogu, Biedrins, and Zarko. Those guys are foul magnets. That's my main worry is foul trouble will be a pain to deal with without murphy.

    Also I wouldn't start Dunleavy at PF.</div>

    I wouldn't start Dunleavy at PF either, but Monty probably would. [​IMG]

    Well, I guess I can see the logic in starting Taft, but I think Biedrins deserves a try too. It's a tough call for the C position as we have a lot of young players that would benefit from the exposure at starting.
     
    Doctor Kajita, Jan 3, 2006
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  11. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Short term this deal is sure to be a boost. Artest did say he wants to play with the Knicks and he does not have a lot of contract left. Foster is okay,not real weak at anything,or real good at anything. My fear is Murphy improves,Pietrus improves (maybe a star?) and Artest bolts or becomes a chemistry problem.

    Naturally,it CAN work out,Foster might get more game,Artest might be a cornerstone for another 5,6 years. I still think later on Mike Pete and Murphy will be much improved and have the kind of market value to get us a young,talented CENTER,which has long been a need.
     
    REREM, Jan 4, 2006
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  12. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">I still think later on Mike Pete and Murphy will be much improved and have the kind of market value to get us a young,talented CENTER,which has long been a need.</div>

    Can you name five young, talented centers in the league off the top of your head? I can't.
     
    Doctor Kajita, Jan 4, 2006
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  13. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I love Murphy but I think this would be a good trade. Murphy is a great fit in Indiana with O'Neal; those two would become one of the better front courts in the East. Murphy only needs to grab rebounds since O'Neal could play the tougher post player.

    Foster is a good rebounder (and we drafted him originally!) so if we end up with him that's not that bad.
     
    philsmith75, Jan 4, 2006
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  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I agree with Rem and Philsmith. Murphy has reached his "upside" IMO. He doesn't play much defense, he doesn't pass the ball, he doesn't move off the ball, he doesn't manufacture his own offense with the ball very well and he doesn't make his teammates better. If it wasn't him rebounding the ball, maybe someone else would? Biedrins? Ike? Taft? Murphy does have that one step back jumper which is awesome when it's going down, but Ike has already demonstrated that move. I just think it's time to improve our interior defense, so that our other guys can stay on the floor. Murphy's value couldn't be higher right now.

    I think Foster could be a nice addition along with Artest. Foster is a good post defender (something we lack) and he's also great at grabbing the offensive rebound. On a shooting team like this, we need those. Also Foster is very quick moving laterally like Andris Biedrins and he can throw it down pretty well too. Fans might like that.
     
    Custodianrules2, Jan 4, 2006
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  15. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    Foster averaged 9 rebounds a game in just 26 mins last season, he'd be a good replacement if we lost the rebounding in Murphy.
     
    AnimeFANatic, Jan 4, 2006
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  16. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    If the Warriors land Artest, I'll have to say screw you guys for robbing my Lakers of another All-Star caliber player. [​IMG]

    The Pietrus, Murphy, Cheaney is better than anything the Lakers can put together, and fits well with the Pacers. Losing Pietrus is tough, but the chances are he doesn't re-sign and you get the player who, most Warrior fans hope Pietrus turns out to be (w/o the baggage) in Artest.

    Baron Davis has the leadership and respect to keep Artest in check. He's great at distributing the ball and finding the player with the hot hand, and the Warriors open offense is something Artest desires to be a part of. This move would allow Dunleavy to come off the bench as the 6th man and take away some of the decision making problems Fisher has with the second unit.

    PG - B.Diddy
    SG - JRich
    SF - Artest
    PF - Diogu
    C - Foster

    The potential starting lineup is going to present a lot of mismatch problems for teams. This lineup has speed at every position and players who can finish in traffic. I think this move would lock up a playoff spot for the Warriors and possibly a Division title.

    Kudos to Mullin if he can pull this deal off with his former team.
     
    Shapecity, Jan 4, 2006
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  17. superman32

    superman32 JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gohn:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope that trade goes through. Hate to see Pietrus go, but I'm not a big fan of Murphy.

    Probably won't see that trade go through until after the Warriors Indiana game though.

    I wonder what the lineups would be if the trade goes through, though I doubt it will happen.</div>

    ya and you guys can finally get a center that knows how to rebound!
     
    superman32, Jan 4, 2006
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  18. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting superman32:</div><div class="quote_post">ya and you guys can finally get a center that knows how to rebound!</div>

    True, and one that doesn't have hands of stone.
     
    AnimeFANatic, Jan 4, 2006
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  19. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Pietrus isnt much of a loss. His absolute best case scenario is a smaller Ron Artest, but thats very unlikely. I'd say he probably wont become much better than James Posey. As myself and others have stated we more than likely wont re-sign him, even if we did offer anything to him, why would he come back? He has already said he wants to have a bigger role and its obvious that he isnt going to be a starter and hes not going to find any crunch-time minutes. It wouldnt be anything personal toward the organization or a player but he would want to find a better opportunity for himself.

    Artest is a top 5 player at his position, maybe top 3 depending on who you ask. Everyone agrees that Murphy isnt our future, everyone accepts that Pietrus isnt going to take J-Rich's spot (or Dunleavy's as sad as that is). Why not trade them for a top 20 talent as well as a would-be starting center? Imagine a world where we arent smoked by Carmelo, Kobe, Ray Allen; we would get a ton more wins. Could you imagine the nightmares that Baron/J-Rich/Artest would cause to other teams? That is far and away the strongest and most athletic perimiter of any team in the league. Other teams cant double team anyone, no more PGs defending our SF [​IMG] .

    The only problems that could arise with this trade are number of shots for each player and rebounding. I think our rebounding wouldnt suffer much, Foster is a nice rebounder and Artest is alot better than Dunleavy. As for shots, I think we'd have to make J-Rich and Artest our co-first options. I think Baron would accept the role of distributer and secondary scorer, he probably should be our #1 option in crunch time because he can try to score but in doing that create alot of opportunities for others.
     
    Run BJM, Jan 4, 2006
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  20. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus isnt much of a loss. His absolute best case scenario is a smaller Ron Artest, but thats very unlikely. I'd say he probably wont become much better than James Posey. As myself and others have stated we more than likely wont re-sign him, even if we did offer anything to him, why would he come back? He has already said he wants to have a bigger role and its obvious that he isnt going to be a starter and hes not going to find any crunch-time minutes. It wouldnt be anything personal toward the organization or a player but he would want to find a better opportunity for himself.

    Artest is a top 5 player at his position, maybe top 3 depending on who you ask. Everyone agrees that Murphy isnt our future, everyone accepts that Pietrus isnt going to take J-Rich's spot (or Dunleavy's as sad as that is). Why not trade them for a top 20 talent as well as a would-be starting center? Imagine a world where we arent smoked by Carmelo, Kobe, Ray Allen; we would get a ton more wins. Could you imagine the nightmares that Baron/J-Rich/Artest would cause to other teams? That is far and away the strongest and most athletic perimiter of any team in the league. Other teams cant double team anyone, no more PGs defending our SF [​IMG] .

    The only problems that could arise with this trade are number of shots for each player and rebounding. I think our rebounding wouldnt suffer much, Foster is a nice rebounder and Artest is alot better than Dunleavy. As for shots, I think we'd have to make J-Rich and Artest our co-first options. I think Baron would accept the role of distributer and secondary scorer, he probably should be our #1 option in crunch time because he can try to score but in doing that create alot of opportunities for others.</div>

    +1

    I don't know why everyone is so high on Pietrus. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy: he brings energy, attitude, and most importantly, production. However, he is very raw, and while he'll continue to progress into a solid NBA player, the W's simply have no room for him, financially and on the roster as Run BJM stated.

    Let's forget the fact that Artest is crazy for one sec and look at his ability as a player and player only.















    Okay, now that you've done that, why wouldn't you take him?
     
    Doctor Kajita, Jan 4, 2006
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