We are "hesitant" to include Dun in any deal regarding Artest

We are "hesitant" to include Dun in any deal regarding Artest

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports...en/3558629.html


WTF?? What is mullins obsession with dunleavy? i would trade him for artest quicker than i would trade murphy for artest.

 

You have a player who will likely explode or pout upon arrival; someone who already will think that aside from Baron, the others are "beneath" him because Artest has already been an All-Defensive 1st team; Defensive Player of the Year. He has already said he's not happy with that, he wants to be the team's first or co-first offensive option.

Yes he may be a stopper but he's not happy with that role; he wants more. With a mediocore/up and coming team, he will feel the same.

Dunleavy is not meeting expectations but forget for a moment he was the 3rd pick overall. He is a 6'11 player with unique skills who has a good shooting stroke and will pass the ball and rebound. Look at his first three years, he's made improvements and is more than willing to work hard and get better. What is lacking? Aggressiveness. That will and can come. That is easier to acquire than attitude, ball-handling, contract issues.

My point is to compare Dunleavy for the next 2-4 years vs. what Artest is going to bring for the next 2-4 years; not just today. That is why I believe Mullin will not make this trade.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">You have a player who will likely explode or pout upon arrival; someone who already will think that aside from Baron, the others are "beneath" him because Artest has already been an All-Defensive 1st team; Defensive Player of the Year. He has already said he's not happy with that, he wants to be the team's first or co-first offensive option.

Yes he may be a stopper but he's not happy with that role; he wants more. With a mediocore/up and coming team, he will feel the same.

Dunleavy is not meeting expectations but forget for a moment he was the 3rd pick overall. He is a 6'11 player with unique skills who has a good shooting stroke and will pass the ball and rebound. Look at his first three years, he's made improvements and is more than willing to work hard and get better. What is lacking? Aggressiveness. That will and can come. That is easier to acquire than attitude, ball-handling, contract issues.

My point is to compare Dunleavy for the next 2-4 years vs. what Artest is going to bring for the next 2-4 years; not just today. That is why I believe Mullin will not make this trade.</div>
Did Dunleavy just grow an inch? I thought he was closer to 6'9 or 6'10 Doesn't matter though because he plays like he's 4'9 or smaller. All that height and no post game. All that ballhandling skill, no way to create. He's weak and he's slow. We can't always blame Dunleavy Jr., since it's partly the team's fault for standing around so much on offense and having no flow (I blame Murphy and Fisher), but there's no excuse for shooting so poorly this year. More than half the time it's like he's asleep while playing or he's disappeared from the ballgame. I think in order for Dunleavy to get more aggressive and energetic he needs a resurgence in his career. He needs to do what Adonal Foyle does for the team. Come off the bench!

Also, yeah I agree that Dunleavy could be a decent player in the near future. It just looks impossible right now. He's a eunuch and he's not doing much of anything consistently enough. He needs an elbow to the face or a ref to shaft him more to wake him up.

Also, I'm not a real huge fan of Artest. He could very well be the next Terrell Owens or Latrell Sprewell. Complete locker room cancer. Let's hope if we get him, he becomes Rasheed Wallace or Bonzi Wells or some other former headcase. In Artest's case, there are possibly no more chances. If he messes up his career could be over. Another thing I don't like is that Artest's rap record label "Tru Warier" might come first before any basketball. It'll also be nauseating how many times he'll mispell the team name on purpose if he becomes a "Warier".

Anyway, I do think a well-behaved Artest might fit in better than people think as long as he's playing guard or small forward and not power forward or center. Jason Richardson might be a fan of Artest's defense and Artest's offense could equate to wins and take the pressure off J-Rich and Baron. It takes the pressure off of Richardson especially and gets him more open. Richardson wants to win, he doesn't mind sharing the ball, so Artest could very well be a nice addition if Ike can prove he can both score and rebound the ball at power forward. Now if Baron and Artest clash... well we know who we all like.

I'm not quite sure how good Artest is offensively, but I hope he doesn't become a ballstopper by not passing. He was putting up some monster numbers earlier this year in his spare time from his music career. His defensive skill is the most important asset because we just plainly suck at the forward positions and we're struggling at the guard positions as well. Ron Artest can guard at least 4 different positions. We need strength and quick lateral movement and I don't think Dunleavy or Murphy provide either guarding any position. We're just too soft or unaggressive.

If we got more weapons to take to the playoffs, we'll be deadly. But it's risky in this path because of Artest's attitude. He betrayed some of his team, the Pacers fans and he definitely disappointed Larry Bird and the entire Pacers organization. I'd rather have loyal Pietrus, believe it or not. But since it's very probable that Cohan isn't re-upping Pietrus or can't match another team offer for him with bird rights, I'll take Ron Artest/Jeff Foster for the proposed trade of Murphy/Pietrus. Getting rid of Murphy might improve our defense overnight and we get an all-star player with a reasonable contract of 3 years. It's not like Artest is a max player with a lot of year's left. Also Foster can defend the post,he's athletic and he's a good offensive rebounder. Not a good shotblocker, but it's important we get 2nd chance points in addition to defensive rebounds.

 

Looking long range, I'd rather have Pietrus.

Think about Artest and the people he's alienated for a moment,

Jermaine O'Neal, someone that considered him nearly his best friend and a true superstar;

The rest of the Pacers, even though he abandoned them for the whole year;

Larry Bird, someone who stuck up for Artest last year in an SI spread, even took a picture with him.

Is that someone you want to root for? Me no. Even if the Warriors stink for the next 3 years, I'd be happier rooting for the Warriors and Pietrus.

In fact, this is a slice of what is wrong with our sporting culture, basketball and every other sport. We are willing to let athletes slide if we think they have the potential to do great athletic things. Society is willing to root for Lawrence Phillips, Ron Artest, Terrell Owens, Michael Irvin. Those guys are bad people and in order to change our society, the greater majority need to wake up and stop giving the bad apples the benefit of the doubt and move on and root for those who display some character.

 

I would think the Pacers would be the ones who are "hesitant" to take Dunleavy's insanely huge contract and sub par play. They say they look for expiring cheap contracts for young players, Dunleavy HAD an expiring cheap contract, until Mullin thought "Hey, this guy will be so good in the future that we'd better pay way above his market value to keep him, cause he's a restricted FA!". Mullin took a big risk by trading for a injury prone disgruntled PG, but see how well that turned out. Baron wanted to leave NO, and he's damn happy here. Artest wants to leave the Pacers, he MAY be happy here. Worth a shot? I say yes.

 

Completely agree, Philsmith.

If there is a deal for Artest that goes down, I'd want it to be just one player and not a package of any rookie. I wonder if Murphy for Artest and trade exception works (to offset BYC on Murphy's deal). Murphy gets to go closer to where he played at school and we get a defensive player of the year to hound the other guy's best player. Sure we lose our best defensive rebounder and 3rd option scorer, but damn his poor defense and lack of the "little things" are very noticeable. It might even outweigh his offensive talents as a shooter. Any team serious about making the playoffs needs some kind of a defensive stopper that can guard a variety of positions. You can't win by being soft. Hopefully Biedrins, Taft, Ike can be capable rebounders.

 

I don't think that rumor is right at all, and I don't see that Pacers are waiting for hesitant Mullin to pull the trigger on struggling Dunleavy. Not only Dunleavy is poison pill statues, so that it requires perfect package to dump him, I don't think Mullin is that obssess with Dunleavy, or whole Artest rumor wouldn't start to begin with.

Artest certainly is a headcase. But, do I want a headcase with top 20 talent, shorter and smaller contract or do I want a good guy, who's contract is longer, bigger and overpriced? Artest is 26 and Dunleavy is 25, so unless Artest complete blows everything up and retire or forced to be out of the league, I don't see Dunleavy ever coming close to Artest level...

 

Hey Kwan, I never thought about that. Why are we trading for a small forward when we have one in Dunleavy? Mullin's love for Dunleavy must be not as high as we think.

 

Yeah, regardless of Dunleavy in here or not, if Artest comes here, we will have 9 mils contract from the bench. So, in terms of Dunleavy's sake, it's not a good deal unless he goes to Pacers. Whether Mullin's love toward Dunleavy was never that high or his love cooled down in this season, we are not sure. But, we are certainly in Artest sweepstake, and that alone means that Mullin is looking for an improvement at SF. Of course, if Mullin is actually hesitating to trade Dunleavy for Artest trade, his obsession toward Dunelavy is wee-bee unhealthy for GM-Player relationship...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, regardless of Dunleavy in here or not, if Artest comes here, we will have 9 mils contract from the bench. </div>
Isn't Foyle and Fisher coming off the bench too? and they have rather large contracts?

Maybe Mullin just likes the thought of having a really expensive 2nd unit?

 

I agree that I'd rather have Pietrus in the long run, but like other's have said they probably can't resign him. They have Ike, Beidrins, Taft, Monta, etc coming up in a few years. And he becomes the odd man out most likely. The higher priority is resigning the big guys when the time comes.

 

We technically could sign Pietrus but it'll never happen in a million years. Mullin has never praised Pietrus like his cornerstones, Mullin is known to do anything to improve his team and resigned two players that play his positions to extensive contracts, he's injury prone and wants to start.

Pietrus is never going to be as good as Ron Artest, even in the longterm. Artest is a top 20 player. I've lost hope on Pietrus exploding here but somewhere else he could be good but not top 20 good. It's no loss trading him because he has no future.

As far as Murph or Dunleavy goes just get rid of one of them. Murphy is more consistent and tougher but it's impossible to get rid of Dunleavy now. Those two can't start together. Artest & Diogu is a huge, huge, huge upgrade.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't Foyle and Fisher coming off the bench too? and they have rather large contracts?

Maybe Mullin just likes the thought of having a really expensive 2nd unit?</div>
Fisher and Foyle were originally signed as starters and the team wasn't so hot. So naturally, the W's had to overpay to lure hardworking veteran players over here.

Hopefully, we can shed Fisher's contract when the right time comes. Foyle has the team option on his 6th year, but I think Fisher has the full 6 year thing. Yikes. I'd rather have Dunleavy's potential than 35 year old backup who doesn't really pass first. Fisher is playing his best ball this season, but how long can he keep it up once he gets in his mid 30's. I think Foyle is very tradeable once he gets closer to coming off the books. He's great as a backup, he can change games with his shotblocking and he's a good person for the community.

 

Can't resign Pietrus but could re sign "I wanna go home to the Knix cuz i candt spel wurryers" Artest? Reluctant to deal a VERY replaceable,overpriced Dun,yet WOULD deal Murphy and or Pitrus who teams actually WANT...and I want to keep.

The "Curse of the Stilt" landed on us for being a franchise dumb enough to trade Wilt. As a result most of our picks taller than 6-9 have been total flops,not mildly dissapointing,but fisco bad Tshikavili useless. We got a good 7 footer,Parrish...and sent him and McHale for JB Carroll,then,later sent our best G,Sleepy AND JB for a crippled,useless Sampson. We picked a M Clarett type in Chris washburn, screwed up Rozier + Fuller,got Tellis Frank for no good reason. Twice we pick #1,get C Webb and Joe Smith...oh yeah they worked out swell. We never seemed to find it tough to get a midsizer. We had several good ones,like Mully-who we gave for Dampier who looked GREAT after Felton Spencer...but had some obvious limitations. Considering all that has gone before,Murphy,and even Foyle,is like a miracle. Just that they are still in the league after 3+ years makes them special among the big man picks of the last 20 yrs. Now we got Biedrens and Taft too,and NEITHER broke a leg,got addicted to something or is in jail...oh my..
So sure,I'd deal Dun for Artest,toss in a rd 1 in 07 as well. Trade Murphy? Uh,we need a decent BIG in return,Foster is ok,but no Pollard or Bender. Murphy and Pietrus...hmmm. To me Pietrus became MUCH more valuable once Dun signed up that contract. Likewise,Dun became a guy paid double what seemed in line with his production,which these days is not good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Can't resign Pietrus but could re sign "I wanna go home to the Knix cuz i candt spel wurryers" Artest? Reluctant to deal a VERY replaceable,overpriced Dun,yet WOULD deal Murphy and or Pitrus who teams actually WANT...and I want to keep.

The "Curse of the Stilt" landed on us for being a franchise dumb enough to trade Wilt. As a result most of our picks taller than 6-9 have been total flops,not mildly dissapointing,but fisco bad Tshikavili useless. We got a good 7 footer,Parrish...and sent him and McHale for JB Carroll,then,later sent our best G,Sleepy AND JB for a crippled,useless Sampson. We picked a M Clarett type in Chris washburn, screwed up Rozier + Fuller,got Tellis Frank for no good reason. Twice we pick #1,get C Webb and Joe Smith...oh yeah they worked out swell. We never seemed to find it tough to get a midsizer. We had several good ones,like Mully-who we gave for Dampier who looked GREAT after Felton Spencer...but had some obvious limitations. Considering all that has gone before,Murphy,and even Foyle,is like a miracle. Just that they are still in the league after 3+ years makes them special among the big man picks of the last 20 yrs. Now we got Biedrens and Taft too,and NEITHER broke a leg,got addicted to something or is in jail...oh my..
So sure,I'd deal Dun for Artest,toss in a rd 1 in 07 as well. Trade Murphy? Uh,we need a decent BIG in return,Foster is ok,but no Pollard or Bender. Murphy and Pietrus...hmmm. To me Pietrus became MUCH more valuable once Dun signed up that contract. Likewise,Dun became a guy paid double what seemed in line with his production,which these days is not good.</div>

Haha, well, that's where we are. I seriously doubt that Pacers are asking for Dunleavy and Mullin is hesitant to trade Dunelavy. If Pacers are actually asking for Dunleavy, their GM needs to be fired immidiately, and if Mullin is hesitant to trade Dunleavy for Artest, I don't think their relationship is just a GM-Player relationship 'cough'. Wild rumors always fly around, and I don't think this one is legit.

That has been said, yeah, when Artest deal runs out, can we resign him, providing that he is not in maximum security prison by that time? If we actually want to do it, it will take whole lot of work to do so, and I have to say our chance doesn't look good. Murphy's deal goes out, but we are taking Forster's contract, which is roughly half of Murphy's deal. So, we still need to clear some room for Artest, if we actually plan to resign. Besides, we do lose our best rebounder and legit 3rd option, including some inside scoring. Foster may help rebounding department, but when it comes to offense, it's night and day. And, that leaves unhappy 9 mils back up SF for 6 years.

I am getting way ahead of myself. Hope Indiana ends this suspense soon...

 

I guess I'm not a big Murphy, not that I'm a big Dunleavy fan either, but I think Murphy is worse. At least Dunleavy knows how to pass the ball, sure he plays too unselfish but that's because his shot is just terrible this year, have no idea what happened to it. Dunleavy is the only one that usually makes the pass into the post, instead of jacking up a shot.

Obviously losing Murphy would be a big hit on the offense mainly because Diogu is so foul prone. And it also sucks that he is poor D also. Now that I think of it, they are pretty similar in terms of what they add to the team and what they don't add.

Murphy adds rebounding scoring inside and out. No defense Never passes.

Diogu adds inside scoring and a bit of outside scoring. No defense. Passes a bit more than Murphy, but still he tries to take it in everytime he touches it. And he is foul prone.

This also opens up more playing time for Taft, Biedrins, Zarko, and add in Foster. Also these guys except for Zarko can see some time at center also.

And then there's Pietrus, who is talented, but definitely Artest is better. Is the team better with a fully recovered Pietrus/Murphy or Artest/Foster?


Also it was mentioned if we were able to keep Artest or not after the one and a half seasons. Probably not. But who would you rather have for one and a half more seasons? Who gives them a better chance to win? Also I think with the deal they can shed some capspace. Not much but some, at least that's what I get from Kwan's post.

Yeah, it's late and I didn't really organize my thoughts too well.

 

don't trade troy...i know he sucks in defence and all
but hey...why not trade foyle and let the likes of diogu and biedrins shine?
he is in the doghouse now

he has long contract and he doens't really do much for the price warriors are paying him...other than the blocks
have faith in troy...he might look retarded, but he is a good player

 

IMHO (humble being relative) Dunleavy is high on my "to trade" list. Passing? Heck Kyle Korver gets a lot more assists,I think Luke Walton also passes more and better-and we could have had either as a round 2. Murphy is a better shooter..and a better rebounder obviously. As a SF Pietrus can D ANYONE Dunleavy can defend,actually if Dun can cover someone, so can Zarko and perhaps Ike too. I maintain (again) that Ike has good fundamental skills and effort on D. The problem is the ugly fact that the RULES OF THE GAME are not the REAL rules. the REAL rules are whatever refs want them to be at the moment. Furthur,the rookie rules and the "big star" rules are not similar. Refs just don't trust "strangers" and it's a matter of time before a player is treated like a " regular customer". I had always had doubts Dun ever would be more than a decent perimeter shooter with some versatility. Give him $5 mil per and a 6th man job and I'm good with it. Tell me his windfall has meant we abandon every top pick since and I say that is bloody madness.

Oooh,we just had an earthquake! A quickie but pretty good shaker.

 

I think you are all misunderstanding the statement.

Warriors are hesitant to trade Dunleavy because of his contract and the fact that it would be tricky to get full contract value back.

Don't be so quick to spread stupidness about Mullin/Dunleavy relationship. This was a financially motivated statement !

-CAT

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Waterworks03:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you are all misunderstanding the statement.

Warriors are hesitant to trade Dunleavy because of his contract and the fact that it would be tricky to get full contract value back.

Don't be so quick to spread stupidness about Mullin/Dunleavy relationship. This was a financially motivated statement !

-CAT</div>

Dunleavy's poison pill status affect Indiana, not us. We trade 4.5 mils and receive 4.5 mils back. However, Indiana trade 4.5 mils and they have to receive 8.1 mils back. And, there is whole 44 mils/5 years brand new contract on Dunleavy. So, it should be Indiana who should be hesitant to receive Dunleavy. And if Mullin believes that Dunleavy's future contract is a burden for this franchise, and Artest is an upgrade from Dunleavy, there should not be a hesitation. I don't think any GM would like to have 9 mils per year contract to come out from the bench.

I don't think anybody took my joke 'suspicion' between Mullin/Dunleavy relationship seriously, and I seriously doubt that whole Artest trade has been holding up because we don't like to trade Dunleavy. After all, if we can trade Artest and include Dunleavy, not only we upgrade our talent, we also get rid of Dunleavy and his heavy contract, like killing two birds with one stone. But, if by any chance, everything is set as long as Mullin includes Dunleavy, and Mullin hesitates to include Dunleavy, I think his obsession toward Dunleavy is quite unhealthy...