<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OAKLAND - The Warriors did what they had to do to disperse the "negativity" that coach Mike Montgomery said has been hovering over the team during their five-game losing skid, if only for a few days. They won a game. That's saying something considering the alarming frequency with which the losses have mounted in recent weeks. The Warriors weren't able to pull away from the worst defensive team in the league until there were seven minutes left in what would become a 109-93 victory over the Seattle SuperSonics in Monday's Martin Luther King Day matinee. Did we mention that Ray Allen, easily Seattle's best player, was sitting out the final game of his league-imposed three-game suspension? This was the kind of game in which a loss would send you searching for the nearest rock to crawl under. Therefore it's impossible to say whether the Warriors have seen the light or if they merely avoided a profound humiliation against a team that has no answer for Mike Dunleavy. "I was a little uptight before the game," Montgomery said. "This was important to us. I couldn't have imagined standing here after a loss." Montgomery was feeling the heat during the Warriors five-game losing streak. Fair enough. He's coaching in a league in which players are rarely blamed for anything. He knew that when he left Stanford before last season. But he's not the only person deserving of criticism for his team's recent slide. Nobody in orange and blue will say a negative word about point guard Baron Davis, especially after he came within a rebound of becoming the first Warriors player to post consecutive triple doubles since Wilt Chamberlain in 1964, but this team is as much his as it is Montgomery's. If the Warriors aren't performing up to par, if they are not playing good defense, if they are not prepared to play, if they are taking bad shots or if there is a lack of effort, it's as much Davis' fault as it is Montgomery's. The Warriors go as Baron Davis goes. That we all know. When he's distributing the ball as he did Monday (10 assists), the offense comes alive. The ball moves, his teammates get better shots and the Warriors are able to reach triple digits with relative ease. Baron Davis is at his best when he's lofting alley-oops to Jason Richardson, kicking the ball out to open jump shooters in the corner and leaving the ball for a teammate for an easy lay-in when he's leading the break. When he's firing up 3-pointers and the ball is not moving -- ball movement has been a problem for this team all season -- his team suffers. Troy Murphy was asked about Montgomery's offense after the game. "Montgomery's offense?" he asked. "Montgomery's offense?" Read into that what you will. He seemed to be saying that Montgomery had little to do with the offense when Davis is on the floor. If that's the case, it reinforces the point that Davis is culpable for the team's doldrums.</div> Source Rough article. There is definitely tension between players and coach, which is leading to poor play on the court. I think Mullin needs to do some damage control and repair the rift. It might take a trade to right the ship in Golden State.
^^yeah, what you said. this is all too familiar for warrior fans... i just hope this doesn't become an issue of our couch vs. our star players, like the old days. at the end of last season, it seemed like our team chemistry was unmatched. now, after a couple losses, everybody's upset and pointing fingers.
This is going to be the first stretch where we'll have a healthy Pietrus and Diogu coming off the bench. I think it's a bit early to be getting so excited. That being said, I'l like to see Ike,Foyle and Pietrus on the court together a bit. I think we could put together some nice stops.
This is a re-post, but I put it in the wrong thread the first time: When the Warriors were sucking butt under Montgomery last year (okay, they weren't horrible but they were nowhere near playoffs) there wasn't really an answer. And then came Baron. And when Baron first arrived, the only thing Monty could do was say "okay Baron, here's the keys, you drive." They didn't have time to try to implement complex schemes, really educate Baron on plays or keep their same static sets. They had to just put the ball in his hands and run the floor. And they started smokin fools. All of a sudden, Foyle's running the floor. JRich is re-energized. Pietrus is high-flying. Fish is draining the rainbow-three. That last stretch -- after Baron first got here but before there was a chance to "rein him in" and re-implement complex schemes -- was some of the best basketball I've ever seen in Oakland (I'm only 28, however, so that doesn't count for too much). The question I want to ask is: What was the smell in Oakland, during Montgomery's first year last season, before Baron got here? Not too rosy. Obviously he was a talent upgrade over Speedy Claxton, but more importantly the team started to play better under Baron's leadership. The second question I want to ask is: Are you willing to take Baron's flaws along with his strengths? If you answer yes, then the issue needs to be re-evaluated. When Mullin went out and got Boom Dizzy, it was no secret he was a point guard who likes to dominate the ball and take a lot of shots. Frankly, that was exactly what the team needed. Someone who actaully wanted the ball in their hands durning crunch time and could make plays. The Warriors knew what they were getting. And frankly, they were in desperate need of it. Baron is a prime-time star who loves to dominate the ball... and the game. Therefore, I can live with his "flaws" when he jacks up an ill-advised three or tries to get a little too flashy on the break. For God sakes the Warriors have been jonesing for someone with a litle flash, a little gusto. Besides, he's not the only one jacking up ill-advised threes on this 3-point shooting team with no 3-point shooters. I don't see how much of any of it can fall on his shoulders. Get guys more involved? He's the only one besides Dunleavy who creates easy shots for teammates. Seen JRich lately? He'll dribble awkwardly in the lane, try a move that's just a little tired, and jump up, do a 180 and look for someone on the perimiter to bail him out. How about Troy? He gets the ball on the wing and it's 1-track-mind. You might as well start running back on D because homeboy ain't looking to dish. Foyle? Nuff said. Leadership? Please. Baron's given this team some balls. He's vocal, animated, and passionate, and he leads by example. JRich was going to try to be the "leader" last year before the trade. Hey, I love JRich and I'm proud of his improvement each year, but he's just not a natural "get-in-your-face" leader like Sam Cassell, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, or Baron Davis. Those guys run the show. That leaves me with two things unnacounted for: Defense and the Coach's Plan. Defense: Baron plays a little lazy at the top, especially when trying to get around picks or stay in front of the point. But I give him a mulligan on this because a) he expends so much energy trying to run the team, getting banged time and time again in the lane, and he makes up for that half-court on-ball defensive lapse with excellent open-court defense, steals, pressure D, and post-up defense. He'll get a switch on a small forward on the block, like T Mac or Rashard Lewis, and he'll move them off the block and shut em down. Coaching Plan: This is it. I have no clue here. Is Montgomery frustrated with Baron? Is Baron a loose cannon, ignoring the play calling and just trying to play And-1? Does Monty feel threatened by having this type of player? In college, the coach is the head-hancho. Not so, usually, in the pros (which is a shame IMO but true). Is BAron showing Monty respect in practice. God I hope so, but who knows? I wasn't thrilled with his whapping Luke Riddenour in the chest. If I was coach I would've chastized Baron for it. Did Monty? I don't know. I don't know anything about this relationship --funny how much I hear about it lately, thanks to Tim "Kamikaze" Kawakami. Nonetheless, if true it isn't the first time in the NBA a coach and a player have had some crap to work out. I'm a coach's man myself, so I hope Baron finds a way to work it out. However, he's not the one to blame for the Warriors' slide. Sure, I will agree Baron occaisionally makes mistakes or ill-advised decisions. Any you know what? I'll take those -- and more -- any day of the week if it means getting all the other stuff that makes him a star -- and gives this team guts.
I'm not a big stats guy but he gets a bad rap, almost 10 assists a game and people complain that he's selfish.
i used to watch Baron courtside when he played for the Hornets. Frankly, he disgusts me. He didnt play hard at all, was fat, always hurt. He was so aloof it was amazing. If this guy couldnt play ball he would be serving me burgers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mmonte4:</div><div class="quote_post">i used to watch Baron courtside when he played for the Hornets. Frankly, he disgusts me. He didnt play hard at all, was fat, always hurt. He was so aloof it was amazing. If this guy couldnt play ball he would be serving me burgers.</div> Well, I don't know about his days with the Hornets, but right now the dude's a rock. He's 6' 3", strapped with muscle, and he can jump out of the gym. I'm 6'3" and can barely grab the rim. Dude can throw down dunks over 7-footers all day. And, btw, he's obviously in shape -- he's playing 38 minutes a game at the most taxing position -- point guard, and running all day. He does get a little lazy defending the point guard in the half court set -- but he's not at all lazy overall, IMO. He plays tough, aggresive, spirited, and physical. And, uh, he owns a multi-million dollar production company, so I think he's set there. IMO you'll be buying your burgers from someone else -- though I wouldn't if I were you -- those things will keep a fellow out of shape.
I don't understand this. What do we blame Baron Davis for? Do we blame Baron Davis because Mike Dunleavy didn't have a role on the team a quarter of the way through the season? Do we blame Baron Davis because Mike Montgomery encourages the team to rest on offense? Do we blame Baron Davis for a lack of communication on defense? Do we blame Baron Davis for being out rebounded in most games earlier in the year? No we blame Baron Davis as the one who will lead this team to underachieve. The journalists following the Warriors are quite dumb. First they blame Musselman for underachieving, and now Baron Davis?? I don't understand.
I'm in agreement -- I mean c'mon, by criticizing Baron's play, do media sources really mean to tell me they expect more from the guy? He nearly posted back-to-back triple dubs. I'm no stat-guy either but that's just plain production. I don't hear anyone lamenting our no-show center with the top-tier multi-year contract.
Yeah, it's hard to believe somebody actually blaming our 18-19 record on Davis. If the Warriors aren't performing up to par, if they are not playing good defense, if they are not prepared to play, if they are taking bad shots or if there is a lack of effort, it's as much Davis' fault as it is Montgomery's. Uh, how? Exactly what Davis needs to do more to stop our first quarter woe? I don't recall Davis tripping Dunleavy or Murphy when they were about to make defensive stops or put a damp on team spirit when the game starts. It is a coach's job to make players prepare for the game and ask the team to play better defense, not Davis' job to do so. And, as far as I remember, Davis has been playing his butt off and shows the most fire, instead of showing laziness and indifference on the court. So, how in the world Hayes blame our 'failure' so far on Davis as much as Monty? The Warriors go as Baron Davis goes. That we all know. When he's distributing the ball as he did Monday (10 assists), the offense comes alive. The ball moves, his teammates get better shots and the Warriors are able to reach triple digits with relative ease. Davis gets the rap of being selfish, and I thought the same thing before we received Davis. Then, I realized that he may be one of the most unselfish PG I ever saw, because he would rather pass then shoot, and if he wants, he can drive and score all day. If somebody is open, Davis will find him, and that's why number of players are having career high season with Davis. But, Hayes wrote as if because Davis distributed the ball on Monday, and that's why our offense came alive... Did... he watch the game, and how number of players struggled recently? That's the main reason why Davis' assist total went down recently, because it's kinda hard for Davis to record assist when somebody doesn't hit open jumper? Davis does like to put up a show, and sometimes, that causes a dumb TO. But, that doesn't mean he is selfish. Heck, we had Arenas as PG not too long ago. When he's firing up 3-pointers and the ball is not moving -- ball movement has been a problem for this team all season -- his team suffers. Davis does take some dumb 3 pts. But then, it's not close to cause a problem for ball movement. Besides, Davis takes 6.6 3 pts, Richardson takes 5.9, 3.3 for Murphy, 3.7 for Fisher, 3.2 for Dunleavy, and 3.6 for Pietrus. Yet, he pins on the blame on Davis... Troy Murphy was asked about Montgomery's offense after the game. "Montgomery's offense?" he asked. "Montgomery's offense?" Read into that what you will. He seemed to be saying that Montgomery had little to do with the offense when Davis is on the floor. If that's the case, it reinforces the point that Davis is culpable for the team's doldrums. First, I have hard time understanding how Hayes translates Murphy's comment as "Davis is ruining the offense". To me, Murphy is blaming Monty for not having a sound offense plan, and it also leads that there is a conflict between players and Monty. Considering that Murphy is not an outspoken guy, the problem may be rather serious. Second, if Monty has little to do with his offense, and if he can't motivate this team to play strong at first quarter or defense, exactly what's Monty doing then? We can all agree that Davis is the best thing that has happened to this franchise in years. Then again, if the Warriors finish below .500, how can anyone argue that they are better off now than they were when Eric Musselman was milking 38 and 37 wins out of this team sans Davis in back-to-back seasons? Let's see... Muss had far inferior roster and he came up with 38 and 37 wins. And, Monty has far superior roster and he is really underachiving... And the blame goes to... Davis? Davis needs to teach the Warriors how to manage a season in order to avoid the types of troughs they are trying to lift themselves out of. He needs to make sure they are spaced properly on offense and playing good team defense. Again, if Monty has little to do with offense, defense, and motivating players, and that job belongs to Davis alone... Exactly why did we even hire Monty? Davis and Montgomery are most responsible for how the Warriors are performing both now and in the future. That's obvious. Montgomery might not be Davis' idea of an NBA coach, and Montgomery may be finding out what Tim Floyd and Byron Scott found out previously: Coaching Davis is no picnic. But their fates are intertwined. If the Warriors make the playoffs, Davis and Montgomery should share much of the credit. If they continue to underachieve, it only stands to reason that both should shoulder the blame. And, if good or bad thing happens, they both share the glory and blame? I can assure that Davis won't follow Monty's fate, if we don't make PO this season. Yes, coaching Davis is no picnic. And, the same goes with every single superstar in this league. No player in NBA will say "Coach, I will trust you no matter what", when the coach did little to earn their trust, especially superstars. If you want to earn their trust, you need to show the result. That's why coaches like Jackson, Brown, Saunders, Riley, Slone, and Pop are getting instant trust. So, did Monty do anything to earn players' respect so far? As far as I remember, the periods when Monty tried to install his plan turned out to be an absolute failure (anybody remember first two months of last year, when we habitually got blown off?), and when Monty finally let players run, our record came close to around .450. Then, Davis came, we ran like there is no tomorrow, and we finished the season with 18-10. At this circumstance, how many people really can say players (or anybody for that matter) should trust Monty more than Davis? And, even in this season, it's really hard to provide a good reason why players should trust Monty. I was rather surprised to hear from Fitz and Barnett that they expected Monty to be more flexible at the beginning of the this season, because Monty doesn't exactly look like a inflexible coach. But then, being inflexible is a character of any college coach, and it is the main reason why most of college coaches failed to adjust in NBA. For two straight years, Monty tried to install his own system, and the result came out with huge failure, because our current players are just not a right fit for Monty's system. At some point of time, either players try to emulate Monty's system whether it succeeds or not, or Monty needs to adjust and create a system, which fits to our current players' strength. And, considering how Monty's previous attempts failed miserably, it's hard to convince players to adjust Monty's plan yet again. At some point, Monty does need to be flexible and adjust the plan for players and for the good of team. And, if Monty can't create the successful system, he may not be a good coach for this team period. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Davis is the man for this club. Then, why do we see this type of article when Davis has been hugely successful and Monty's influence has been minimal? It's because there is a romantic idea that the coach is a father figure, and players should follow whatever the coach says for the greater goods, because the coach always knows the best for the team. And, when players disobey the coach, it's considered as "unprofessional", "childish behaviour" and even "problem for today's society", no matter how little people can trust the coach to do the job. But, let's face it. That's far from the reality. Even in our work place, if your boss seems to be clueless on the job, and other people seems to know more about something, it's natural for people to listen that individual instead of the boss. And, Basketball players are the same. If the coach doesn't earn the trust, his plans failed number of times, and he has no success to show for, it's hard for players to just listen what the coach says. To make worse, if the coach is inflexible and doesn't make an adjustment, conflicts are inevitable. When you try to shift the blame on a student who gets 95 on the test and says "Because you didn't get 100 on the test, our group average pts is the last in our class. You should be a better leader", not only it's plain wrong, nobody will buy that idea. This type of undercutting needs to be stopped, because the last thing we want to see is media running yet another successful individuals away from Bay Area, like how Kawakami did the campaign against Muss...
Great posts guys. While there is definitely a divide between coach and players, I guess we can't really take sides. It's like Republicans and Democrats. Same country, different beliefs. Coach can't establish an identity for the team and the players we have can't establish an identity on scoring inside, passing from within inside and improving our defense and rebounding. If there are changes going to be made (in this short period of time of unwanted results) we have to choose between short term and long term progress. Fundamentals or the talent we have now. I really hope the players and coach come together soon. We need to play smarter. BTW Murphy was one of those guys that gets confused on Montgomery's plays. He doesn't know when to cut, where to receive the ball, or who to look for when passing. It's why he plays so simple. Left wing step back elbow jumper, trail three, triple threat from the left wing. He's one dimensional. He's not Dirk, he's not Duncan, he's not Brand. He's setting the tone for the Warriors in a bad way much like Dunleavy was doing in his first two years in the league when he couldn't get offense or defense to flow. Maybe the guys tryin to run the plays have to be Stanford grads with 1500 SAT scores to understand it. The reason we can win some games with Baron Davis is he makes other players better by being very creative with the ball. He just creates it by forcing double teams. He can also beat another player in so many ways by overpowering, outquicking or shooting over the other guy. He's the most deadly in transition, but we need to push for this to happen. But this play can't work forever since it will essentially be a perimeter oriented type of game with little amount of scoring inside the paint unless we're beating defenses on the break before they get set in. We need better rebounding and more ballhandlers for this... Also, when Baron drives he's worn down by contact, forced to dish to players off kickouts who don't move without the ball. We're just asking for turnovers this way as defenders close the passing lanes on static jump shooters and for teams to zone up on us, daring us to shoot the three ball. It just doesn't work forever like Musselman's passing and cutting open offense. Too predictable once you identify it. A well executed series of plays can ruin a help defender's day if the defense is getting hung up on screens or losing them on sharp cuts. There's just no way to defend it if you play smart and with a little toughness and timing. If we think about it, we're still a little too much like the Gilbert Arenas team. We can push the break and win that way, but we can't win consistently like that. We also have zero presence on defense inside the paint these days because Foyle has lost a step and Murphy is Antwan Jamison like without the inside scoring or consistent free throw shooting. If we pass the ball well, execute, play D, score efficiently and make the shots we're supposed to make without forcing the issue, we'll win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mmonte4:</div><div class="quote_post">i used to watch Baron courtside when he played for the Hornets. Frankly, he disgusts me. He didnt play hard at all, was fat, always hurt. He was so aloof it was amazing. If this guy couldnt play ball he would be serving me burgers.</div> I used to watch him too when he played for the Hornets, and I completely disagree. His first year, yes he looked like a bust for sure and everyone wanted to get Francis, but he came back the next year and ever since then he has obviously been the better pick. Well other than the injuries he's been the better pick. Actually he didn't miss one game in his first 3 years, and he's been healthy so far this year and I hope he stays healthy for the remainder of the season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">If we pass the ball well, execute, play D, score efficiently and make the shots we're supposed to make without forcing the issue, we'll win.</div> I wish Jerry Sloan was the coach of the Warriors. His teams always play so well, whatever talent he may have or not have to work with.
Baron can take caharge,and when he does,you can see the difference. He seemed out of gas a couple of weeks,jack a 3, make the obvious pass,but frankly,for a spell I could see little difference between Baron and Fish. This team does need to run. We didn't go get a big Ostertag type because we were going to run. We figured murphy could play C,because we'd run. Well,after about 3 weeks of the season we backed off. I'd hoped to see Miles get regular duty,so Baron stayed fresher,faster,sharper,but coaches,and Monty seems to have fallen into the typical habit,Stick with the stars,think one game at a time. Well,it ain't a one game season. Monty has played the bench more than many coaches do. It's not enough. You can't expect someone to sprint for 40 min,and 2 nights later,do it again. Players need to bring their "A" game. These guys didn't start playing a year ago. Guys KNOW defense,moving the ball,not settling for perimeter shots,staying alert,are important. Time to step up and earn the money. Nobody has done their best yet...nobody.
You know I had hoped to see more of Miles as well. There's one thing that a point guard needs to have and that is leadership skills (with some charisma), vision of the floor, and a strategy for putting the ball where his teammates like it. The other is shooting, on-ball defense, dribbling, passing touch, but I guess Aaron Miles was never going to be a shooter unless the organization comitted to developing his limited range jump shot. He was already a good ball thief and ballhandler though. Not terribly quick for his size, but if he turned out anything like Chris Duhon, I'd keep him over a soon to be very old Derek Fisher. I think Fisher's deal lasts one more year than Baron and what sucks is he will cost Pietrus his job if Cohan won't extend him next season. We can make a case for Dunleavy/Richardson getting in the way. I wouldn't want to give up Richardson so Pietrus could start, but man Pietrus is so quick he's too hard to defend for most people playing him straight up. Who on our team besides Baron is like that and that could also shoot accurately from 3-point land? I mean Richardson's more of a power guy than he is a Michael Redd or Kobe Bryant type when it comes to quickness and he probably wouldn't average as many free throw attempts as guys that can handle the ball and turn on the jets. I typically have a bias for making the shooting guard the perimeter defensive stopper on the team since almost all playoff teams have one at that position. The other is forward, but we won't be seeing this until we develop our big man rookies. I think it could be Biedrins or Taft. Somebody that is athletic, aggressive, long, strong for his weight, laterally quick, mentally quick. We know Barnett gave Taft props for his defensive play in his limited minutes. Maybe he'll break out like 2nd round pick Gilbert Arenas with a little more playing time.
I hardly blame Baron. The problem is that others are not making the shots and are ignoring Baron, especially in the critical points of the game, i.e. last 2 mins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I wish Jerry Sloan was the coach of the Warriors. His teams always play so well, whatever talent he may have or not have to work with.</div> Yeah! I'm a big fan of Sloan. He didn't hang it up when the Mailman and John Stockton left. He is the face of the franchise pretty much. When it's your coach and your GM getting the right results in a place like Utah, you're doing everything right. The other GM and coaches I liked were with Memphis. Jerry West hasn't made any spectacular moves in Memphis but the franchise continues to do pretty well for a team located there. They've brought in Hubie Brown and the Czar. Those are good coaches. Good coaches got to come from somewhere right? It starts with having good knowledge of the game, leadership skills and getting the right guys that will buy into the system. That's why I hope Montgomery becomes a good coach for the NBA because he's got talent, he's got the personality, he just needs the tools. He's got a lot of things he can do when the team is buying into his system and playing smart ball. When they're not, that's when you see one-on-one ball or not as talented players getting subbed in that will play the system. Of course this can backfire when Monty tries to put in Calbert Cheaney as a power forward and go small. Guys like Murphy, say "What system?" but that's because he's not trying or Baron isn't running it. The Cavs game showed that the Warriors can play like a team like Utah or Memphis when they are lacking a superstar player. It just comes down to playing smart ball and having talent that recognizes they have to play smarter. Anyway, Monty's a rookie coach still, so I don't expect him to be that great until he's adjusted to the league like our players have and the players have adjusted to him. Like Mickael Pietrus lately (when he slows the game down) he's awesome. He just gets it finally. If Monty doing the out of bounds plays is a sign of getting the team to execute, imagine what they can do in the half court set if the team executes based on what the coach wants. We need smart, aggressive, energetic style of play, sharing the ball, movement off the ball and we need defense because we're such a small team. That's essential for any undersized team like ours.
