Just read this possible trade scenario in the BSPN chatroom session. Apparently Danny Ainge is still enarmoured by Casanova Swift, and might part ways with Gerald Green to land him. Thoughts on this deal?
I would jump on that. Green has a dark cloud following him saying that he lacks effort, but his upside is Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce level. I think Swift could be good, but he doesn't have the frame to be a banger, so he would top out at Dalembertesque levels. That would be nice but it won't win a championship. I think we need to brace ourselves and get ready to lose Shard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting odde23:</div><div class="quote_post">I would jump on that. Green has a dark cloud following him saying that he lacks effort, but his upside is Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce level. I think Swift could be good, but he doesn't have the frame to be a banger, so he would top out at Dalembertesque levels. That would be nice but it won't win a championship. I think we need to brace ourselves and get ready to lose Shard.</div> Have you even seen him play? I don't think he's played at all this year, although he was just shipped down to the NBDL. The T-Mac/Pierce/Kobe talk was swirling around draft time - likely conjured up by some agents. From all accounts, he is a phenomenal athlete - and obviously has tremendous skill to be taken out of HS. I'll personally, however, wait until he shows a thing or two in the NBA before I compare his upside to any NBA allstar - or be willing to trade a center who has shown considerable improvement in just the past couple of weeks since he began recieiving floor time. I'd be upset if this deal went through. We know alot more about Swift at this point than we do about Green. I actually think Rob has a decent frame - big legs, fairly wide shoulders. He'll never be a Shaq, Mourning, or Ben Wallace type, but Duncan isn't particularly big either. He may not have the upside to ever be a #1 option, but thats fine with me. Rob is already a decent rebounder and fairly good shotblocker at the NBA level. Center is so much tougher to fill than the swing posistions - probably the main reason I'd hold off on any deal for Swift unless is was an absolute steal. Are you really worried about losing Rashard? I can't say I am at all. Likely very few teams will have the room to sign him to a max extension that summer.
That's certainly intriguing. I am 50/50 on this one. We all heard the TMac and Kobe comparisons before the draft and the kid slipped to 18, and past teams that needed swingmen. I get the feeling he is a lot more raw than people thought coming out of high school, and this seems to have been confirmed by the fact he's been sent down to the D-League. Still at the same time, he seems to have this 'superstar potential' tag still on him, and could concievably be a readymade replacement for Ray Allen down the trak, while learning his trade from one of the best shooting guards the game has seen in the last 20 years. On the other hand, why give up on Swifty when he's finally starting to show something? A trade like this would leave us with Petro as our starting centre, and our only other options Potapenko, Collison and Fortson. At least Rob gives us a shotblocking presence, even if he is a long way off being a consistent 25-30 minutes a night guy. But, at the same time, how good is he going to be? It seems his ceiling is a roleplayer and not an All-Star. I'm very undecided, but I doubt anything will come of it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post"> Still at the same time, he seems to have this 'superstar potential' tag still on him</div> Thats just it though - how can he even have a tag on him when the only thing we know of him is pre-draft hype bundled with the fact he wasn't good enough the help his squad yet. He's obviously stuck behind an all star and another solid pro, but if he was even remotely living up to the hype, I doubt his GM would be trying to move him already.
M Cage 89 is making it quite obvious that he doesn't follow HS Basketball or watch preseason very closely. There is no doubt in anybodies mind that has seen him play on any level that he has talent, he has super athleticism, and huge potential. Then again what is potential worth. Lenny Cook had potential.
I'm not torn at all on this. I'd rather keep Bobby. You don't trade unproven bigs for unproven smalls. If both end up reaching expectations a 7'2" player would most likely be more of a coveted commodity. And due to the fact that I've seen genuine glimpses of solid play from Swift he'd be one of the last people that I'd want to include in trade discussions right now. Swift seems to be a guy who will continue to improve and gain confidence with extended minutes. He no longer looks like that scared teenager who was just trying to make friends on the team. He is actually showing growth. On the contrary Boston expected Green to be able to work his way into the rotation at some point this season and as it stands right now he has rewarded their faith in him with a sub par effort and performance. That is why he was sent to the D-League. Green has tremendous upside and athleticism but he hasn't proven that he has the appropriate mental makeup to reach his potential. That is why his stocked dropped so much on draft night. Not that I look at Swift as the second coming of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, but you have to be impressed by the effort that he has put out in the past few games. As it stands right now he is the only player that I look forward to watching in a Sonic uniform. The rest of the guys (Sweet Lew excluded) have all vastly underachieved. And Jo-Pet needs to finish better around the rim. That is why I'm not so high on him as some other people are.
I'm not sold on GG's shot release, from what I saw at the McDonald's game. Not that that's worth anything. Nice dunker, though. On a local note, Martell got sent to D-league (man, that sounds like a scrub league doesn't it? They need to find a better name) - guess he wasn't working hard enough. I know his former HS coach, said Martell's a great kid but a bit on the soft side.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting odde23:</div><div class="quote_post">M Cage 89 is making it quite obvious that he doesn't follow HS Basketball or watch preseason very closely. There is no doubt in anybodies mind that has seen him play on any level that he has talent, he has super athleticism, and huge potential. Then again what is potential worth. Lenny Cook had potential.</div> I never said I didn't think he had tremendous potential or talent, I'm just not willing to give up a solid center prospect who we've seen play NBA minutes for a swingman prospect we haven't seen play NBA minutes and after workouts slipped down in the draft from earlier predictions. Do you follow HS bball? You obviously don't watch the games, my guess is you don't travel, so if you keep your finger on the pulse its likely just stat watching or perusing a local paper pumping up the hometown kid. Or better yet, the nbadraft.net scouting reports. Besides, what 6'8" kid who is even a remotely decent athlete doesn't dominate HS ball? The competition is often terrible for a player with the skills necessary to play Div I, let alone jump straight to the pros. Dujaun Wagner once scored 100 points in a HS game... Do you follow preseason? Because your boy Green put up some real stellar #'s this year - 3.1 pts, 31% FG, 62% FT, 25% 3PT - averaging 10 minutes a game. Obviously a very small sample size, but thats my whole point - the only thing anyone could say about him is he might be good - or can jump, or seems like a super athlete. I'm all for getting excited about players in preseason, or even from reading other peoples reports on them - I do it too. And I know its easy to get sucked into hype, you mentioned Lenny Cook and I think he's a perfect example of why at this time I wouldn't even think of trading Swift for Green. We just know so much more about Rob at this point. We all have our favorites, and maybe for some reason you just like the guy - thats fine. But I still can't see a single viable reason to trade Swift for Green besides him supposedly having a big upside. It may not be the flashy move, or the chance to score big - but I think its the right one. I actually would have probably been more inclined to support a move like this if Robert hadn't broken into the lineup - but it would only be because of not having a chance to really see him play at all coupled with the frustrations of a losing season and prematurely just saying screw it, bring in someone who will play. After seeing Swift get some solid run these past couple of weeks, I think I've seen enough to decide I wouldn't exchange him for a swing player we know relatively knothing about.
And here I thought you meant Stromile Swift.. Sheesh shape, I almost had a heart attack from all the joy. Excuse my short post.. but -- well, I went from utter shock to total disappointment.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And here I thought you meant Stromile Swift.. </div> I thought you mean Willie Green or something. Anyway, I think keeping Swift would make much more sense. Serviceable centers are hard to come by in the league and from the looks of things, Swifts going to become just that maybe a bit more. Of course, I don't watch too many Sonics games so I'm basing this purely off box scores. Green meanwhile, has not broken into the Celtics roster thus far into the season and has been sent to the D League.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">blah blah blah</div> there are lots of televised HS games here in the information age. There are also lots of other neat things like All-American games, search engines, and highlight reels. If you haven't seen him play . . . ok. I have. Gerald Green
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">there are lots of televised HS games here in the information age. There are also lots of other neat things like All-American games, search engines, and highlight reels. If you haven't seen him play . . . ok. I have.</div> Are you kidding? Televised high school games, highlight reels, the McDonald's All-American game? Why do you even bother responding if this is all your gonna say? Since you were so mesmorized by his preseason play - why don't you dig up some highlights of him turning it over or puking up bricks - I'm sure there is plenty of material floating around based on his stat line. He may turn out to be great, he has the athleticism to play at this level it appears, but for you to assume you have any idea of what player he will end up as is ridiculous - you haven't seen anything but an edited highlight reel. If you think Swift has looked like garbage and is positively worthless, than that at least would be a reason - all you've managed to come up with are examples of Green playing with a bunch of kids who have barely went through puberty, and in games where absolutely no defense is played. If you honestly believe an online video feed of him dunking is reason to believe we should trade Swift - than there is no point to talk about it further...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">you haven't seen anything but an edited highlight reel.</div> You don't know anything about me. What I have seen and what I haven't seen. Your assumptions are wrong, and you are acting like a childish ass. Back off, Scooter. They televise the "McDonalds All-American Game" Nationally. I watched it. It was great. You should of been there. Green Scored 24 points from all over the floor, after he won the Slam Dunk Contest (which I also saw, Bub) Oh, that's right, any 6'8" player can dominate in high school. right? While trying to sound smart you point out his preseason stats, very good, you can use a search engine, move on to the fifth grade. I never said he was stellar in the pre-season, I SAID I HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY YOU IGNORAMOUS! Anyway if you feel like discussing what I have and have not seen we can continue this stupid little discussion where I say something and you discount it and move on with the argument like i never said it or you are just assuming it isn't true. That will be fun. We can have this big long argument based on nothing. Or you could just move on.
Your right about one thing, there isn't any point about continuing the discussion. You've failed to make a single credible point. I'm glad you've seen him play, pat yourself on the back - I'm amused that you seem so offended that I would assume what you have or haven't seen, because this started when you assumed to know what I have or haven't seen... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> M Cage 89 is making it quite obvious that he doesn't follow HS Basketball or watch preseason very closely</div> Your the one who brought up high school basketball, preseason, and all-star games as examples of getting a chance to evaluate Green. I'm not trying to sound smart by bringing up his preseason stats, you brought preseason up - I just wondered what you saw in your extensive scouting of Green in his 10 minutes a game with not so impressive #'s? This is the only chance you've had to see him play against other NBA players, that was my point - so if your not drawing your conclusions of him from this, and instead focusing on HS games and dunk contests - why even discuss it. I brought the stats up to try and get you to give me a reason why despite the #'s, he still showed alot solid skills and ability - you for whatever reason decided not to say anything. So you bring up the McDonald's game? The dunk contest? Great, glad you got a chance to watch them - so did I. Its amusing - but its a no defense alley-oop dunk fest dominated by swing players who can jump - I think its a terrible way to evaluate players - nobody tries at all on the defensive end. I've been trying to get you to say what you have or haven't seen this whole thread - so far its been a wasted effort resulting in this response... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lots of televised HS games here in the information age. There are also lots of other neat things like All-American games, search engines, and highlight reels. If you haven't seen him play . . . ok. I have.</div> So you bring up searche engines as a tool you've used to evaluate Green, then drop this quote on me - "very good, you can use a search engine, move on to the fifth grade" - in case you forgot, this came right after the part where you claimed I was acting like a "childish ass" <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway if you feel like discussing what I have and have not seen we can continue this stupid little discussion where I say something and you discount it and move on with the argument like i never said it or you are just assuming it isn't true. That will be fun. We can have this big long argument based on nothing. Or you could just move on.</div> You haven't responded to one point I've brought up besides taking offense to me assuming what you have or haven't seen. My point was how can you equate HS minutes/all-star games/online video dunk feeds with what we have seen of Swift playing against real NBA players and having some limited success? I mentioned that 3 or 4 posts ago, you've yet to respond to it. So if you want, go ahead and bring up all the times you've seen him dominate players half his height, score from all over the court in games notorious for no defense, and for good measure sprinkle in some dunk highlights.
See, the reason I don't feel like making my case to you, or giving you a reason, is because you keep saying stupid things. Examples; <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">the only thing we know of him is pre-draft hype bundled with the fact he wasn't good enough the help his squad yet.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">so if you keep your finger on the pulse its likely just stat watching or perusing a local paper pumping up the hometown kid. Or better yet, the nbadraft.net scouting reports.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">you haven't seen anything but an edited highlight reel.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">If you honestly believe an online video feed of him dunking is reason to believe we should trade Swift - than there is no point to talk about it further...</div> All I am saying is that, you are being antagonistic for absolutly no reason. If you are really interested in why I would like to do that trade, just go back and read my first post. You haven't changed my mind about anything. I don't know much about the kid except WHAT I HAVE SEEN and I think he has huge potential. I don't think Swift will be much better than pretty good, maybe, one day, down the road. I am a gamblin' type. You are the antagonistic, presumptuous, ignorant, arrogant type. If you really want me to make an argument then here "Green has a dark cloud following him saying that he lacks effort, but his upside is Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce level. I think Swift could be good, but he doesn't have the frame to be a banger, so he would top out at Dalembertesque levels. That would be nice but it won't win a championship."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting odde23:</div><div class="quote_post">See, the reason I don't feel like making my case to you, or giving you a reason, is because you keep saying stupid things. All I am saying is that, you are being antagonistic for absolutly no reason. If you are really interested in why I would like to do that trade, just go back and read my first post. You haven't changed my mind about anything. I don't know much about the kid except WHAT I HAVE SEEN and I think he has huge potential. I don't think Swift will be much better than pretty good, maybe, one day, down the road. I am a gamblin' type. You are the antagonistic, presumptuous, ignorant, arrogant type. If you really want me to make an argument then here "Green has a dark cloud following him saying that he lacks effort, but his upside is Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce level. I think Swift could be good, but he doesn't have the frame to be a banger, so he would top out at Dalembertesque levels. That would be nice but it won't win a championship."</div> I think the reason you "don't feel like making my case to you, or giving you a reason" is you don't have anything to say - and never did. Thats my whole problem with you, you continue to ramble on and on, personally attack me, and yet refuse to make any attempt to back up your points if someone else's opinion differs. You might as well have ended your first post with "I refuse to back up any of the statements I have made. Furthermore, when questioned, I will resort to personal attacks and will not acknowledge any counter points as having any merit..." Maybe you won't back anything up because I "keep saying stupid things?" Once again, I ask for you to validate what you have seen with anything besides an "i think he has upside" remark and a garbage dunk feed, and once again, you fail to make anykind of a point. The question was always "why? why do think Green has so much upside?" - you not having an answer doesn't make me ingorant, presumptuous, or arrogant. You complain that I'm the antagonist and presumptuous - and yet your first response to me started with... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">M Cage 89 is making it quite obvious that he doesn't follow HS Basketball or watch preseason very closely</div> It was your presumptions about me that started this whole mess, which I'm sure you'll convienently forget when you respond. I'm not trying to antoginize you - you were one who started with the personal attacks, and continue them here. Its pathetic, really - if you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, why are you on these boards? I was never trying change your mind, just stating my opinion - was interested in why yours differed, but you instead decided to turn the thread into a pointless circular argument in which you continue to say nothing besides calling my posts stupid or me ignorant. This whole display could have been avoided had you simply responded in a civil manner to my first post - I had nothing against your opinion, mine was obviously different for reasons stated, and was simply questioning how you arrived at yours - bottom line. I suppose you'll continue to back up your stance with nothing but negative adjectives about me, hopefully it makes you feel good. Just remember that I'm rubber and your glue...
Keeping Robert Swift might be the best thing for the Sonics, or at least not trading him for Gerald Green. For someone projected as a possible top 5 pick, he slipped way too far. There’s no way seventeen GM’s passed up on a kid compared to Tracy McGrady for nothing. He’s also never experienced any sort of NBA action whatsoever. He hasn’t even played in garbage minutes this season. I think in about two years Swift can be a regular contributor while Green might take twice that amount or maybe even more. Also, why give up on him now, especially when he’s showing signs? I think Seattle shouldn’t part ways with their young core (Swift, Petro, Collison, and Ridnour). With the way the team is now, it will be more beneficial to trade some of their veterans for some younger guys. Trading Swift for Green seems like making a move just for the sake of making a move.
