Is anybody else fed up with Jack Armstrong, Chuck Swirsky, Paul Johnson, Leo Rautins and any of those other guys that pretend to be analyst? I mean they put up some pretty ridiculous opinions out there (Johnson thinks Bosh is the 10th best player in the league?), but I could let that drop. Its just how they basically have no opinion besides that of the Toronto Raptors organization, and then they attempt to pass themselves off as legit writers, analysts, etc. I mean I'm listening to Jack Armstrong on the Fan after Babcocks firing. The same Jack who's been mad at fans for booing Hoffa. The same Jack who's said that this front office staff is going to need time to turn this thing around. And I here him talking about how Hoffa has been a bust since day one and that Babcock must not have had the material to be a leader. Am I listening to Richard Peddie? Its ridiculous that Raps fans are basically forcefed this crap. Anyways thats my rant for the day. Jack talking like he knew Hoffa sucked all along really ticked me off.
Well in Jack's defense, just because he gets mad when ppl boo hoffa, doesn't mean he thinks hoffa doesn't suck..... I myself think he's been a major bust but I still don't think it's right for fans to boo him. But I do hate it when Chuck and Leo will bash someone after they left the organization. For example with AD, they never said anything bad about the guy while he was a Raptor and as soon as they shipped him out, they let loose on all the insults.
Chuck and Leo doesn't bash people without reason....they bash AD and VC because they basically abandoned the raptors and thats all i can really think of Leo is not a bad commentator though....and chuck isn't bad either
We all know what they are as commentators. I have nothing wrong with that, even if all their opinions are pro-Raptor. The major problem is when they go on radio shows or write articles, that give them the appearance of legit analysts. They aren't. They're simply regurgitating the organization's opinions. The worst part of this, is that they end up flipflopping. They can bash AD and Vince if they want, but they gotta be willing to look at his faults while he was a Raptor as well. If you listen to them, its almost like a player cannot be criticized until he has left the Raps. In the Hoffa example, I was referring to how he often said he could have what it takes to stay in the League, but lacked confidence and that the fans shouldn't boo him. Immediately after the firing I hear him talking about how everyone knew Hoffa was a bust from the beginning. Seeing as that pick was a Babcock move, it seems obvious where this sudden change in opinion came from.
jack armstrong was an NCAA coach. he spends his day ANALYZING the nba and the raptors. you're trying to say he's NOT an analyst? what gives someone at espn any more credentials then jack armstrong? hey, if it looks like a duck, and smells like a duck... how are any of these guys not "legit commentators/writers/analysts" ? lay off chuck and leo...they are no different from ANY home team commentators.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">The worst part of this, is that they end up flipflopping. They can bash AD and Vince if they want, but they gotta be willing to look at his faults while he was a Raptor as well. If you listen to them, its almost like a player cannot be criticized until he has left the Raps. In the Hoffa example, I was referring to how he often said he could have what it takes to stay in the League, but lacked confidence and that the fans shouldn't boo him. Immediately after the firing I hear him talking about how everyone knew Hoffa was a bust from the beginning. Seeing as that pick was a Babcock move, it seems obvious where this sudden change in opinion came from.</div> I admit, I didn't hear Jack talking on the radio show, but it still seems like he isn't flip-flopping on his opinion of Hoffa. When he was defending Hoffa during the all booings, he never said that he wasn't a bust. You can say someone has what it takes to stay in the league, yet still think they've been taken too high in the draft. On that radio show, it seems like he was taking more of a stab at Babcock than at Hoffa. I guess the reason I'm defending Jack is because, unlike Leo and Chuck, he doesn't wait for players/personnel to leave the organization before he bashes them. Even before Babcock's firing he was saying that he messed up big time in the VC trade (something Leo and Chuck never admitted to, but I'm sure they will now). He was also one of the few Raptor analysts who was heavily critical of VC during his Raptor days.
http://www.nba.com/raptors/raptorcom/pjohnson_060123.html after reading this i agree that some of the raptors commentators are complete morons.
Yeah, a lot of them shouldn't even be writing articles because they are soo biased, if you going to be a good writer/analyst you gotta give both sides credit and bash both.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">I admit, I didn't hear Jack talking on the radio show, but it still seems like he isn't flip-flopping on his opinion of Hoffa. When he was defending Hoffa during the all booings, he never said that he wasn't a bust. You can say someone has what it takes to stay in the league, yet still think they've been taken too high in the draft. On that radio show, it seems like he was taking more of a stab at Babcock than at Hoffa. I guess the reason I'm defending Jack is because, unlike Leo and Chuck, he doesn't wait for players/personnel to leave the organization before he bashes them. Even before Babcock's firing he was saying that he messed up big time in the VC trade (something Leo and Chuck never admitted to, but I'm sure they will now). He was also one of the few Raptor analysts who was heavily critical of VC during his Raptor days.</div> I agree with you, in that Jack is much better than Leo or Chuck. Aside from that incident on the radio, I usually find his opinions fairly consistent (even if I disagree with them). Chuck, IMO, is the worst out of all three. I know he's a personality and everything, but its difficult to listen to his radio show for a very long time. When he talks about the Raps, he's like a bald, excited, and annoying Richard Peddie. BTW, that Paul Johnson article is an example of why hockey people have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">jack armstrong was an NCAA coach. he spends his day ANALYZING the nba and the raptors. you're trying to say he's NOT an analyst? what gives someone at espn any more credentials then jack armstrong? hey, if it looks like a duck, and smells like a duck... how are any of these guys not "legit commentators/writers/analysts" ? lay off chuck and leo...they are no different from ANY home team commentators.</div> totally agree, i think they're great, stop making *^&$ about them, they're just doing there job like any other commentators.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post"> I mean they put up some pretty ridiculous opinions out there (Johnson thinks Bosh is the 10th best player in the league?), but I could let that drop. </div> Thats not entirely ridiculous. While i do agree that Bosh is lower than that, he's not a whole hell of alot lower. I mean, trying to name players CLEARLY better than him is tough, there are a few of them but alot end up coming down to personal opinion, and alot of variables such as the teams supporting players, style, and the players intangibles. Example of this would be Bosh vs J. Oneal.
I can easily name players better than him: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, Elton Brand, Paul Pierce, Jermaine O'neal, Ray Allen, Andrei Kirilenko, Shawn Marion, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Gilbert Arenas, Shaq (Probably missed some). Bosh is great young talent, but he hasn't fullfilled his potential yet. If you even read the guys argument, you'd realize how ridiculous he sounds.
who the he!! is Paul Johnson??? u mean Paul Jones, the radio guy? he suxxxx bigtime! edit: nm, i saw the article...but Paul Jones does suck!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, Elton Brand, Paul Pierce, Jermaine O'neal, <u>Ray Allen</u>, Andrei Kirilenko, Shawn Marion, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Gilbert Arenas, Shaq (Probably missed some)</div> First of all for the Raptor haters who call themselves fans, if you had to pick from the players names in bold would you choose any of them to builda franchise around over Bosh? Remember Bosh is 21. And our commentators are amazing, we are blessed to actually have good ones. I've had the "priviledge" to hear some other commentators from other team sports channels and they are absoloutely atrocious. What do you expect anyway, you don't expect team commentators to be biast? What do you want them to say, oh I have no hope for the Raps they are 4th worst in the league, what are we going to do. You focus on the positives.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr. Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all for the Raptor haters who call themselves fans, if you had to pick from the players names in bold would you choose any of them to builda franchise around over Bosh? Remember Bosh is 21. And our commentators are amazing, we are blessed to actually have good ones. I've had the "priviledge" to hear some other commentators from other team sports channels and they are absoloutely atrocious. What do you expect anyway, you don't expect team commentators to be biast? What do you want them to say, oh I have no hope for the Raps they are 4th worst in the league, what are we going to do. You focus on the positives.</div> Do you read what you respond to? I didn't list players that I would rather build the team around. I listed players that are currently better than Bosh. Of course he's got great potential, being only 21, but that doesn't affect how good he is right now. He isn't close to be being a top 10 player right now. Second, when did I criticize them for their commentating? I have a problem when they put out articles, talk on the radio and T.V., as if they were actual analysts. I hear Chuck bashing people who phone in ridiculing Babcock's moves, and then he turns around and supports Peddie, saying the same thing those callers said earlier, after the firing. Thats not an valid opinion. He's simply throwing out MLSE propaganda. Of course I have no problem with a biased commentator. Its a fact of life. As long as these commentator stay consistent with their opinions, I'm fine with it. dunksworth pointed out that Jack was willing to criticize players while they were there. Thats the difference between him and Chuck and Leo. How do you call me a hater for asking for consistency and objectivity? If anything I'm a better fan for not putting up with that garbage. We all know about Dave Feschuk's reputation in Toronto. I don't agree with his constant negativity. But at least I can repsect him for sticking with his opinions, and not being fed his opinions. Can't say the same for our "analysts."
These guys sit courtside at <u>every</u> Raps game. Leo is the head coach of team Canada. Sounds to me like they're qualified to be analysts. What did you want them to say when Babcock was GM? Babcock's horrible and has no idea what he's doing, by the way I'll have my stuff packed up by monday. Nobody, in any job can go around bashing high-ranking employees in the organization, and it's no different for Chuck and Leo. And I know you don't like them changing their opinions, but propaghanda? That's a little over the top. Let's just keep in mind that an analyst isn't some all-powerful and sacred position. Their job is talk about what they've seen from the team. Whether you see things them same as them or not is a matter of opinion, not credibility.
Yea, but how am I supposed to respect someone's opinion when he changes it based on the organization's moves? Hey, I said it before: I may not agree, but I can respect someone's opinion that Babcock should have been given a chance by the fans. But he needs to stay consistent. Now I hear him talking about how Babcock just wasn't the right fit or ready for the job, and I think of the countless people who called in with the same opinion before and got dismissed by him. It seems like everybody's misinterpreting my criticism. I'm not against them for being pro-Toronto Raptors or for having a certain opinion. I just find it annoying when they continue to flipflop, based on MLSE's stance. It brings their credibility as analysts to question.
I was listening to the Fan 590 yesterday and there was a call in show after the game. First guy who gets on the mic asks: "I know we won tonight - but as we slip out of the playoff race: what do you guys think about losing some games?" - "click" the announcers hung up on him right away and immediately went to some guy who sounded like he was on crack with all his optimism for the raptors. I understand that these guys are here to promote the raptors and aren't out to bash the organization - but censoring someone's opinion like that is pure garbage. I personally don't think we should tank. However, instead of bring up something like - giving the young guys an opportunity to play and improve etc… they just pushed it to the side. There is nothing wrong with a little debate with regards to the strategy to the team for the rest of the year. It's ironic how they disregarded his opinion as if he was crazy... like the raptors were a playoff lock for this year or something. Selling people who know nothing about basketball false hope is only going to serve to piss them off in the future - commentary should be pro-raptors, but respectful of the other team, the game and at least somewhat realistic.
