I came up with a similar thread like this, but getting blown out by the Hawks solidified for me that Larry Brown is the league’s most overrated coach. Yes, I know this roster is far from being a championship contender, but I know it’s better than 14-29. Slot Machine Starting Lineups: Larry Brown’s slot machine starting lineups are a big reason for the Knicks being inconsistent and piling up turnover after turnover. Guys aren’t used to playing with each other because the lineups change so frequently. When the Knicks were on the winning streak, the lineup was consistent. The lineup changed because of injuries and suspensions, but it didn’t go back. At least he changed his policy of starting players in their hometown. What a joke. Playing Wrong Players at the Wrong Time: Okay let’s take the Atlanta game as an example. Quentin Richardson was playing awful defense, awful offense, wasn’t rebounding, and was turning the ball over. Malik Rose had a few solid defensive plays, but overall Harrington had his way with him as did Josh Childress. So, what does Larry Brown decide to do? Keep them in instead while Lee was rebounding well, creating on offense well, and was playing good basketball overall. That Golden State game always comes to my mind. The Knicks took the lead with their rookies in the game. Since they’re playing so well and Golden State clearly cannot counter their energy, why not keep them in? No, Brown decides to put in the likes of Malik Rose and the rest of them. Of course, that lead to our downfall that game. Where’s Trevor? Against Atlanta the Knicks were massacred from the perimeter. Where is their best perimeter defender, Trevor Ariza? On the inactive list despite the fact two forwards, Qyntel Woods and Antonio Davis were injured. What makes the situation even worse is the fact the Knicks only played 10 players that game meaning there were two available spots open for Ariza, our BEST perimeter defender. Last year he was ranked 4th overall among small forwards in effective defense by 82games. Why keep him on the bench? Poor Utilization of Players: Marbury came off a career year averaging 22 points and 8 assists on 46% shooting from the field and 35% from downtown. Now Marbury is being poorly utilized. He isn’t attacking the basket where he usually finishes with and1 layups. This worked better for the Knicks. Although brief, remember Trevor Ariza playing point guard when Marbury was injured? Ariza’s handle is bad enough as a small forward, so how the hell do you expect him to play point guard? Crawford, Nate, Woods, and even David Lee would be better suited at point guard. Why the player whom you referred to as delusional? Cannot Run an Effective Offense: The Knicks look so terrible on offense. At least last year they were alright on offense. The Knicks try to force their way downlow to Curry and if that doesn’t work, someone takes a contest shot. The offense is almost as terrible as watching the defense. This leads me to my next point: Detroit Pistons: As soon as Brown leaves Detroit, the Pistons are not only great defensively, but a great offensive team, too. It’s not like they gradually became offensive threats – it was as soon as he left! Now, the Pistons are challenging the Bulls for the league’s best record and although they might not break it, they are miles ahead of everyone else in the league, especially the Knicks. The players themselves said Brown got too much credit for what he did and they’re right, he did. Now, what if Don Chaney was throwing out 20+ lineups by midseason? Or if Lenny Wilkens or Herb Williams did that? Everyone would be screaming for their heads, but because of Brown’s track record, no one dares acknowledges it? I’ll be the first one to admit (or maybe the second; Brown admitted it himself) that Brown has to do a better job coaching. Right now he’s getting paid $50 million to do all of this. I’m 100% sure if we had a different coach we would have a few more wins, which, to our benefit, would put us in a tight battle for the 8th seed. Anyway, I’m unsatisfied with Brown and think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
larry brown is just not the right coach for us.... this roster have so much talent and before the season i expected we gonna be like the 7th seed in the playoffs
Well we better get our butts in gear if this is gonna happen cause from what I saw tonight...this team is lottery bound! And for the record...I think Isaih Thomas should be fired too!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">this team is lottery bound!</div> Sorry Ewing, hate to break it to ya, but you can't really say that because you have no lottery pick...
Good post, Larry Brown hasn't approached this situation...but from day one, I knew it was going to be a diaster. Larry Brown isn't going to change his methods, it was sucessful in Detriot, but its not going to work with the players Isiah has brought here.
Larry Brown doesn't know how to use talent. He lost in the Olypics, and then Wade, Lebron, and Amare all had amazing years in the following season. Rather than play the young guns, he used TD (always in foul trouble), AI, and Marbury. He's too conventional and afraid to break the coaching mold for whatever reason. I'm not saying that Darko deserves to play above Sheed, Big Ben, or even Dice. But I wonder what kind of player he could be by now if he had logged some minutes that weren't in garbage time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I As soon as Brown leaves Detroit, the Pistons are <font size=""7"">not only great defensively, but a great defensive team, too.</font> .</div> ???????
I think its either Phil Jackson or LArry Brown that is the most overrated coach in the league. I personally thin ktheir the two best coaches however, but everyone acts lke their light years away from the rest. Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich, Avery Johnson are aall great coaches as well. Underrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting superman32:</div><div class="quote_post">???????</div> Obviously I meant offensively?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Larry Brown doesn't know how to use talent. He lost in the Olypics, and then Wade, Lebron, and Amare all had amazing years in the following season. Rather than play the young guns, he used TD (always in foul trouble), AI, and Marbury. He's too conventional and afraid to break the coaching mold for whatever reason. I'm not saying that Darko deserves to play above Sheed, Big Ben, or even Dice. But I wonder what kind of player he could be by now if he had logged some minutes that weren't in garbage time.</div> That team had like two weeks of practice....how you sound?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NYCfinest123:</div><div class="quote_post">larry brown is just not the right coach for us....this roster have so much talent and before the season i expected we gonna be like the 7th seed in the playoffs</div>That pretty much clears it up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">That team had like two weeks of practice....how you sound?</div> So what? International teams play slightly more defense than the teams that we watch in the ASG every year. That said, Larry Brown coaching a team of allstars should have been a walk in the park. Brown is old school though, he wants to see quality basketball, conventionally. We've all heard about some of the mess that Magic and MJ did on the dream team back in the day--up all night playing poker, partying, probably doing more than we'll ever know. Brown was more intent on sending a message to players who misbehaved.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">So what? International teams play slightly more defense than the teams that we watch in the ASG every year. That said, Larry Brown coaching a team of allstars should have been a walk in the park. Brown is old school though, he wants to see quality basketball, conventionally. We've all heard about some of the mess that Magic and MJ did on the dream team back in the day--up all night playing poker, partying, probably doing more than we'll ever know. Brown was more intent on sending a message to players who misbehaved.</div> Bronze is still a good accomplishment, especially playing against veteran teams like Argentina and Italy, those teams played together for over half a decade. USA wasn't a bad team, and the blame shouldn't be on Larry Brown, its not easy to distribute role playing minutes to guys who are use to playing 40 minutes a night.
Though I do generally regard Brown as being overrated, it can't be all his fault. The Knicks of recent years have gone through a slew of decent coaches (and Brown is at least that, no matter how little you think of him).. But whether it is due to luck (injuries), incredibly bad player selection (so many bad attitudes and contracts that can never be lived up to), or maybe just the climate (not literally, but the lifestyle and such) of living in NYC.. The team badly needs an overhaul because it has a collection of "talent" and "potential" that has just never been realized. Marbury is quite possibly the best physical specimen of a PG the league has seen in a long time.. and although he puts up numbers he obviously isn't a franchise player type of guy. It's kind of funny, now that I think of it I made a post in the Knicks forum asking fans why you put up with the Knicks and I believe you (MrJ) were one of the fervent supporters despite it all.. (Not criticizing here, just something I noticed, heh) Honestly I don't see the team as having what it takes to be a cohesive unit. There's a lot of youth and immaturity, and perhaps due to being a New York team, they gravitate towards individual glory and can't make the sacrifices needed for a winning team. The culture of losing in NY didn't start with Brown, and sadly I think this season we're finding out the coach is not what needs changing for this team. PS.. One last thing I'd like to dispute.. It's really not an accurate comparison to say that the Pistons of this year are better than that of the last 2 years. Even if this team were to win 70 games, it would be meaningless if they ended up not winning the championship.
[quote name='tradebark']Though I do generally regard Brown as being overrated, it can't be all his fault. The Knicks of recent years have gone through a slew of decent coaches (and Brown is at least that, no matter how little you think of him).. But whether it is due to luck (injuries), incredibly bad player selection (so many bad attitudes and contracts that can never be lived up to), or maybe just the climate (not literally, but the lifestyle and such) of living in NYC.. The team badly needs an overhaul because it has a collection of "talent" and "potential" that has just never been realized. Marbury is quite possibly the best physical specimen of a PG the league has seen in a long time.. and although he puts up numbers he obviously isn't a franchise player type of guy. It's kind of funny, now that I think of it I made a post in the Knicks forum asking fans why you put up with the Knicks and I believe you (MrJ) were one of the fervent supporters despite it all.. (Not criticizing here, just something I noticed, heh) Honestly I don't see the team as having what it takes to be a cohesive unit. There's a lot of youth and immaturity, and perhaps due to being a New York team, they gravitate towards individual glory and can't make the sacrifices needed for a winning team. The culture of losing in NY didn't start with Brown, and sadly I think t of inconsistency, hence the turnovers on offense. Just last game against the Hornets he played all 12 active players. Sometime in mid-December he said he would shorten the rotation. Clearly he is yet to do this and players can’t get a feel for the game playing 20 minutes one game and 0 minutes the next. His runs to the media where he publicly criticizes his team calling them “delusional” or saying they can’t understand something going to college for only one year, only takes away trust the players had from them. In addition, with the team being so young, they easily lose confidence. Players like Jamal Crawford, Nate Robinson, and Channing Frye all started off the season pretty well, but you can tell they lost much of their confidence. They’re just not hitting shots that they’ve made in the beginning. Then there’s the defense. The Knicks aren’t a very good defensive team by any stretch with or without Brown, but plenty of the miscommunications on defense are due to a lack of playing time together. Also, why have Ariza, easily the team’s best defender, on the bench? Last year, by 82 games, he ranked fourth amongst small forwards on defense. So, why keep him glued to the bench? Doesn’t make much sense to me at all. Then there’s David Lee. He rebounds, plays solid defense, and has a very high basketball IQ. Larry Brown played him when the Knicks we
They need a refuse-to-lose player MrJ you are right it is confusing why this team isn't better. If i had to guess, i would say there is no on-the-court leadership. love or hate Kobe, he at least makes the teammates feel like we have an ultra competitor on our team. or KG, or Dwayne Wade. for example, the Nets have at least two guys like that - RJ and Kidd. Is there one guy on the Knicks who has that refuse to lose mentality? the only one i sense is Nate Robinson and hey he's not in a leadership position. I believe they have as much talent as the current Bucks, but the Bucks have better competitors on their team that's why they have a better team. Talent wise they have most of the pieces. It's sad, NYC deserves better. When the Nets move to Brooklyn the Knicks franchise is in trouble. Nets have 3 STAR PLAYERS, the Knicks have ZERO. Marbury is not a star in my book.
It looks like the Knicks brass is becoming fed up with Brown's antics: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The organization is supportive of Brown while also showing signs of growing weary with him for airing its dirty laundry, a pet peeve of Garden chairman James Dolan. According to a source, the front office was disappointed that Brown informed the media on Wednesday that Thomas had told him that morning to devise a wish list of players. The next day, Brown revealed that he gave Thomas the list months ago. Even when Brown is joking, the organization isn't laughing. On Tuesday, Brown made a flippant comment about Marbury attending Georgia Tech for only one year. Brown admitted a team official cautioned him about making such remarks because the media could twist his words. Brown then blamed the press for "blowing it out of proportion" even though it was made clear that Brown was in fact joking.</div> New York Daily News
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">It looks like the Knicks brass is becoming fed up with Brown's antics: New York Daily News</div> *Sigh* The media, when I read that on RealGM and a Canadian sports network reported it, they made it sound pretty bad.
You people truly believe that the Knicks lack of drive, confidence, and success is C.Browns fault! I mean, do you people really believe this, or are you just trying to give excuses to the knick players. Oh yeah and I'm not saying they don't have the talent, but they don't even try and since they notice how everyone wants to blame the coach they don't get on the floor and really give it all they have because in the end...its larry browns fault
