<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> Anyone with a chance at landing Oden is not going to trade that opportunity away.</div> Hey the Knicks traded away their pick(#4 overall right now) to Chicago, not saying anyone else is as crazy as Isaih but you can't say that the possibility isn't there. You make good points though, I'm not a huge James fan but if it keeps Bosh happy you're right, that's what's important right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PlaTsanity:</div><div class="quote_post">ROFL life must suck for davis this is what he had to go through: A) became an all-star with the raptors..was having a good time wife made him demand trade..his excuse was that the Canadian education system sucks..and he wants his kids to attend an American school 3) he gets traded to Chicago..hes happy 4) gets traded to NY..upset at first..but after a while he decided to make NY his home and moved his family there 5) goes into the stand and gets suspended for 5 games 6) his wife just got arrested yesterday got throwing a coffee mug at someone else..lol 7) the day after his wife got arrested..he got traded back to toronto..and his wife cant leave NY because she has to attend court LOL</div> YEAH, THAT'S GOT TO BE ONE ANGRY DUDE.
Wow, Wayne Embry.. Man hes gettin it done.. I know i dont sound like a fan but i hope we close out the season with 35 wins max so we get a good pick and cap space to sign a new scorer in Jalens place.. maybe move bosh to centre and get charlie to be the scoring PF and then we need a new scoring SF so what SF/SG (cuz Mo can play either) should Wayne Embry sign?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey the Knicks traded away their pick(#4 overall right now) to Chicago, not saying anyone else is as crazy as Isaih but you can't say that the possibility isn't there. You make good points though, I'm not a huge James fan but if it keeps Bosh happy you're right, that's what's important right now.</div> The Knicks have no shot at Oden. He won't come out until the 2007 draft, and by then the Knicks will be right back at playoff level. I know they look far from it now, but Larry Brown just needs a couple of years to mold this team. This season he's basically breaking every player down and showing them the way they play the game is wrong. He'll spend the rest of the season ripping this team and tinkering with lineups. Then in the summer he'll start building up their confidence and get them to buy into his way of basketball. I guess the cliche would be, 1 step backwards to take 2 steps forward. Isiah is still crazy though. Right now it's all about Chris Bosh for the Raptors. I think he will become even more popular than Vince Carter was, when VC was the face of this franchise. Bosh is a student of the game and has the drive to make use of his potential. He has the ability to win a championship as the center piece of a franchise. I think the Raptors should really take a look at how the TWolves built around KG when that team made it to the WCF. Bosh has a similar impact to the game, that KG has, and if you start adding the right complimentary pieces around him, the Raptors have a chance to make a title run somewhere down the line.
The Raptors won't even make the playoffs until they start playing some defense. This team is so bad defensively, it's pitiful. Toronto desperately needs a tough minded defensive stopper. Hopefully Joey Graham develops into that type of player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">The Raptors won't even make the playoffs until they start playing some defense. This team is so bad defensively, it's pitiful. Toronto desperately needs a tough minded defensive stopper. Hopefully Joey Graham develops into that type of player.</div> Well they can start by abandoning the zone defense they try to play. No one on this team understands how to rotate hard and there's far too, much miscommunication for them to effectively play the zone. Besides, most teams in the NBA have 'zone busters.' The Raptors have to learn how to defend one on one, and it's up to the coaching staff to motivate them to play harder on defense. Sam Mitchell needs to make his players accountable if they give up uncontested shots. I think this is one of the reasons why Embry is cleaning house. When you have a group of disgruntled veterans on the roster, it just makes it even harder for a coach to get his message across.
Am I the only one who thinks that it was more of a management influenced deal than one of Embry's doing? It was just reported in the Star today that the Raptors are losing money because of the lower attendances, and Rose is traded with a first round pick in a deal basically saving us $16 million? Getting Davis for Rose is a drop-off in talent, as Davis has been horrible in New York this year and just when Pape Sow is showing some potential, Davis takes away his minutes. The Raptors will still be undersized every night, and Davis is nowhere near the shotblocking presence Sow is. We're in a worse position to win games, and trading away our third best player who has just started to play well will basically end any hopes of the playoffs for this team. And I didn't even get started about the pick... Not liking this deal at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Am I the only one who thinks that it was more of a management influenced deal than one of Embry's doing? It was just reported in the Star today that the Raptors are losing money because of the lower attendances, and Rose is traded with a first round pick in a deal basically saving us $16 million? Getting Davis for Rose is a drop-off in talent, as Davis has been horrible in New York this year and just when Pape Sow is showing some potential, Davis takes away his minutes. The Raptors will still be undersized every night, and Davis is nowhere near the shotblocking presence Sow is. We're in a worse position to win games, and trading away our third best player who has just started to play well will basically end any hopes of the playoffs for this team. And I didn't even get started about the pick... Not liking this deal at all.</div> Well they said they've been working on this deal for over a month, so I don't Embry deserves all the credit. I don't think winning games is the priority at this point. It's about building chemistry and developing the younger playes. This team isn't going to make the playoffs, but the idea is to have them in a position to win down the line. This season is over already for the Raptors and the less they win, the higher up in the lottery they go. Either way it's a win-win situation by unloading Rose and clearing up cap space. The draft pick (Denver's) is irrelevent for this team. They have enough young talent to build around (Bosh, CV, Graham, Sowe), plus add whoever they end up drafting this summer, and they still have Roko Ukic overseas. I don't think Davis is going to play much, if anything he'll eat up Arajao's minutes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Am I the only one who thinks that it was more of a management influenced deal than one of Embry's doing? It was just reported in the Star today that the Raptors are losing money because of the lower attendances, and Rose is traded with a first round pick in a deal basically saving us $16 million? Getting Davis for Rose is a drop-off in talent, as Davis has been horrible in New York this year and just when Pape Sow is showing some potential, Davis takes away his minutes. The Raptors will still be undersized every night, and Davis is nowhere near the shotblocking presence Sow is. We're in a worse position to win games, and trading away our third best player who has just started to play well will basically end any hopes of the playoffs for this team. And I didn't even get started about the pick... Not liking this deal at all.</div> I think Embry made the move because the Raptors are committed to the youth movement. It's no secret that the front office was trying to move Rose for a while now. The Raptors save tons of money to sign Bosh to a max extension and for Mike James to be resigned if he wants. Plus, the Raptors have enough trouble attracting free agents as it is, at least they have a bit of money to overpay for a key free agent. I didn't like throwing in the Denver pick either, but you know Denver is eventually going to get hot and win more games. It's a 21-25th selection, so it's not THAT big of a deal. This years draft comes nowhere close to the depth of last years, so it's all good IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Well they said they've been working on this deal for over a month, so I don't Embry deserves all the credit. I don't think winning games is the priority at this point. It's about building chemistry and developing the younger playes. This team isn't going to make the playoffs, but the idea is to have them in a position to win down the line. This season is over already for the Raptors and the less they win, the higher up in the lottery they go. Either way it's a win-win situation by unloading Rose and clearing up cap space. The draft pick (Denver's) is irrelevent for this team. They have enough young talent to build around (Bosh, CV, Graham, Sowe), plus add whoever they end up drafting this summer, and they still have Roko Ukic overseas. I don't think Davis is going to play much, if anything he'll eat up Arajao's minutes.</div> What are the Raptors going to do with this money? They'll end up over-paying for Mike James, and the new GM in place will not know the team well enough in the offseason to make a right signing (eg. Rafer Alston). Bosh's new extension would have kicked in the year Rose's expired, and we wouldn't have been any a step slower. Instead, now we'll probably pay James over the MLE and sign one or two guys who I really don't trust can help us. Besides, it's not as if one summer of trades and free agency can turn us into a playoff team. We should look into the future and this deal simply didn't accomplish that goal, IMO. If we're looking to win games both in the future and now, this deal doesn't help us any more than keeping Rose would have.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks have no shot at Oden. He won't come out until the 2007 draft, and by then the Knicks will be right back at playoff level. I know they look far from it now, but Larry Brown just needs a couple of years to mold this team. This season he's basically breaking every player down and showing them the way they play the game is wrong. He'll spend the rest of the season ripping this team and tinkering with lineups. Then in the summer he'll start building up their confidence and get them to buy into his way of basketball. I guess the cliche would be, 1 step backwards to take 2 steps forward. </div> think you misunderstood me...I wasn't saying anything about the Knicks and Oden. I was merely saying that if the Knicks could trade their 1st round draft pick to Chicago (which turns out will be a HIGH lottery) what is stopping some other team who thinks they will be better than they end up being or is gonna be bad, trading us their 1st rounder thus giving us the shot at Oden
So I think this naturally leads to the question: Who's out in the free agent pool this year? I personally think the draft pick is irrelevant. This draft is filled with swingmen and pretty weak at that. Any player picked with the 20-25th pick won't compare to a player/players we could bring this extra cap space. I don't think the Rafer signing reflects well on how a new GM will use this money. The point guards that year were surprisingly weak (I think Derek Fisher was the best one out there), and we had a limited amount of money. Bosh has already stated that he likes the cap space this trade brings, and the franchise, at this point, is a GM's dream. The situation is perfect for someone to come in and shape it to his liking.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">What are the Raptors going to do with this money? They'll end up over-paying for Mike James, and the new GM in place will not know the team well enough in the offseason to make a right signing (eg. Rafer Alston). </div> Ok, who hasn't become overpaid in the NBA? First off, Bosh wants James to be a part of this team and if that's what the franchise player wants, then obviously the Raps will do whatever it takes to sign him. Also, you can not assume every GM is like a Rob Babcock and we still don't know if the Raps will end up hiring a new GM because Embry might want to stay and personally, he'd be an excellent GM for this job because he knows the team so well already. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Bosh's new extension would have kicked in the year Rose's expired, and we wouldn't have been any a step slower. Instead, now we'll probably pay James over the MLE and sign one or two guys who I really don't trust can help us.</div> The fact is the Raps will have money to spend for James, which in turn, will make Bosh happy. The Raps needed to move Rose, while his value was still high or in this case, just to clear some space because right now, the most important factor in the minds of management is having flexibility in the offseason. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides, it's not as if one summer of trades and free agency can turn us into a playoff team. We should look into the future and this deal simply didn't accomplish that goal, IMO.</div> Isn't looking at the future the whole point of this trade? Please think about the goal of the Raps..."youth movement." <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">If we're looking to win games both in the future and now, this deal doesn't help us any more than keeping Rose would have. </div> I think this was a wise move because why wait another 2 years until Rose's contract expires, when you can move him now and also clear some space to sign key players that could work around Bosh? I think that if the Raps are really going in with their whole youth movement plan, then this certainly gets things going.
Ok... Lets ask this, Who's available this off-season? Peja, Nene (good but if Raps overpay it's not worth it.) Webber? thats if he opts out, Tim Thomas, Ben Wallace ( Doubt he will leave Detroit), Fred Jones, Al Harrington, Melvin Ely, Chris Wilcox, James Posey (player option), Kelvin Cato, Doug Christie?, Tony Battie, Jason Terry, Lorenzen Wright, Nazr Mohammed, Andre Miller, Ruben Patterson(player option), Vladimir Radmanovic, Sam Cassell, Deven George, Bonzi Wells *Some players are missing* Most of these players, or "above average" players will not likely to come to Toronto, this FA IMO is weak, i would of waited for Rose's contract to end the following year since that FA class will be a lot stronger. But since we are trying to "lure" a good GM, this expiring in Davis would be nice for the new GM and hopefully just hopefully the guy doesn't overpay free agents this summer but saves the cap space for Bosh and the following year's FA..
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Most of these players, or "above average" players will not likely to come to Toronto, this FA IMO is weak, i would of waited for Rose's contract to end the following year since that FA class will be a lot stronger. But since we are trying to "lure" a good GM, this expiring in Davis would be nice for the new GM and hopefully just hopefully the guy doesn't overpay free agents this summer but saves the cap space for Bosh and the following year's FA..</div>Exactly what I meant. The Raptors' "youth movement" is all about getting young free agents, but no impact player in the 2006 class is "young". The best case scenario is we might end up with Fred Jones. Also highly doubt the new GM would save the money and use it in 2007. Any new GM would want to make an impact immediately and want to produce results in his first year. Signing a free agent will be key to a team's success, and I just don't see whoever takes over passing up the chance to make a good impression.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Davis? Return to Bulls Not Out of Question Brian Hanley of the CHICAGO SUN-TIMES writes, ?It looks as if Antonio Davis will be available soon, which means it's possible he may yet return to the Bulls. Imagine the headache that would pose for Bulls executives trying to figure out where to sit Davis' wife, Kendra, at the United Center. Those scenarios gained new life Friday after Davis was traded from the New York Knicks to the Toronto Raptors for Jalen Rose, a first-round draft pick and cash. Toronto wanted Davis' expiring contract, but it's almost certain Davis won't play one game for the Raptors. There's speculation he'll be able to work a buyout. Davis left the Raptors on bad terms when he was part of a six-player deal Dec. 1, 2003, that featured Rose going to Toronto and Davis coming to the Bulls. Davis was booed heavily upon returning to Toronto as a visiting player.? </div> http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bull042.html# Ah well, I didn't want Antonio back anyways
Don't really understand why people are getting upset with us trading our draft pick. We already have 3 rookies on our roster with Villanueva/Graham/Calderon plus our own draft pick next year and Ukic who will be here next season. Denver's pick will be most likely in the 20s. We will already have basically 5 rookies on next season's roster, we don't need 6. At some point we're going to have to start building something. I don't see the point of wasting another season, just to wait for Rose's contract to run out. We don't necessarily have to pick up a free agent, we can package some of our expiring contracts for next season and pick up a player that another team might want to dump for their salary. It's not that we have to do something immediately, it's the fact that we have the flexibility to do so if needed that's most important.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">think you misunderstood me...I wasn't saying anything about the Knicks and Oden. I was merely saying that if the Knicks could trade their 1st round draft pick to Chicago (which turns out will be a HIGH lottery) what is stopping some other team who thinks they will be better than they end up being or is gonna be bad, trading us their 1st rounder thus giving us the shot at Oden</div> Thanks for the clarification Jones, I can agree with that.
The perfect trade would have had us swapping picks with the Knicks. But I can live with the one we made.
