Where does Kobe rank in history?

81 points!

I still haven't gotten over that.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Here are 20 great players (not necessarily in any strict order). I couldn't put Kobe ahead of any of them, at this point. He's pretty close to breaking in, if he can lead his team to a great season. You're telling me you can "easily" put Kobe ahead of one of these players?

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Shaquille O'neal
5. Bill Russell
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Elgin Baylor
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Julius Erving
15. Bob Cousy
16. Bob Pettit
17. David Robinson
18. Karl Malone
19. Kevin Garnett
20. George Mikan</div>

i can...

Kobe is def. better than KG ( i'm not saying KG isn't incredible,but kobe is way better..) Kobe surpasses..
KG
Malone
and Shaq

These are the ones he already surpassed...the other he just might be better at the end of his carreeer.!

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">[quote name='fatballer_10']This first paragraph automatically makes me not even want to read this. First and foremost, you don't watch Laker games as you admit here. Therefore, how the hell would you know what you're talking about. Every time I watch the Lakers play, Kobe is the only one that does much of anything. His teammates are horrid. Odom should by all means average career highs playing along Kobe. Kobe gets him open jumpers all the time due to the double and triple teams he draws, Odom just doesn't knock them down. Odom also plays himself out of the offense. More often than not this year, Odom has camped at the three point line or has shot long jumpers, both of which are out of his comfort zone. He is best when he is shooting from 15 feet in and taking it to the hoop. He hasn't done that this year. It is not Kobe's fault Odom sucks, it's his own. And by the way, Wade wasn't a superstar during his rookie year and Odom was the top option all season. Maybe that's why he had one of his best seasons there.

Here's a thought for you. First and foremost, LeBron has a phenomenal supporting cast. Drew Gooden gives 12/9, Z has been good for 16/7, 'Yell has been good for 10/7 off the bench, Eric Snow can run a game better than most points in the league without having to produce offensively, Damon Jones, despite inconsistency, gives them another good offensive option off the bench, etc. So, to say the Cavs supporting cast isn't that good is just stupid. The Lakers supporting cast isn't that good and isnt' half as good as the Cavs. You also say that because Lebron and AI average 6 and 8 assists respectively, that they're not selfish. Did you ever stop to look at FGAs? LeBron has 1157, good for 3rd in the league. Iverson has 1200, good for second in the league. And Kobe is first in the league, with 1316. Just over 100 more than AI. So, what makes Kobe so selfish when he barely shoots more than AI and LeBron do, but they're not selfish. Who cares that Kobe isn't averaging 6 assists, that's what Odom is there for. He's the one running the offense this year, NOT Kobe. Kobe is the scorer in the offense, Lamar is the facilitator, therefore, it would make sense for Odom, the point forward, to average more assists than Kobe, and that's exactly what he does. And also, Kobe could have a whole hell of a lot more if his teammates would hit their shots. As I stated earlier, everytime Kobe dishes to a teammate, they mess up and miss the shot. He can't control that people on his team can't hit an open jumper.

He is FAR better than you're average superstar. No average superstar can take the team that he has and win 26 games with them. No average superstar hits more big shots than Kobe. Hell, aside from Michael Jordan, it's hard to find a superstar that hit more big shots in his career, and Kobe is far from done. Next, Kobe is a top 50 player. He's on pace to become the all time leading scorer in NBA history (but will likely be passed by LeBron), he's got 3 rings, and he's hit plenty of big shots and scored plenty of points along the way. I can't name 50 players that I'd take over him, and that's not out of bias, that's because he is that good. There isn't a player in the league that has his skill set or that can lead his poor team the way he has. Look at the other players you've mentioned or players similar to him, and look at their supporting cast. TMac has Yao, LBJ has Gooden, Z, and Marshall, AI has Iggy, CWebb, Dalembert, and Korver. Kobe....Kobe has Smush, and underachieving Odom, a bust named Kwame, a foul machine named Mihm, and all sorts of other useless parts. If it wasn't for him, the Lakers go nowhere.

Now here's a thought for you people. I will say this, Kobe is not a top 20 player of all time...yet. At this stage, I can probably list a load of players that are ahead of him. However, he's only 27. He's still got a lot of productivity ahead of him, and by the time he's done, top 20 will be a doorway he doesn't walk through, but one that he kicks down.</div>

i just wanted to repost this again because what this guy says...He says it all!! Their is not much else, but the hatin' wont stop because rebels are always disliked by haters, what can he do. Kobe is a warrior, and in the eyes of those who actually do watch him play and really see how hard he tries to make his team great you'll know...Kobe is already a legend! He has so much passion and so much heart...kobe is just an incredible player...but his rebel soul and his swager cause people to dislike him, but check this out...
HE DOESN'T CARE! Every night he'll prove he is better, and every night he'll show us that he is a legend, a warrior...and one of the best to ever play the game of basketball!

 

You really think shaq is better than Kobe...
Shaq couldn't have done anything that he did without Kobe...never. And even with Wade at the moment he isn't going to achieve the greatness he got with Kobe, why? Because Kobe and Shaq were the team...Kobe's speed, the way he can get all the shots he want up which ends up attracting the "D" this allows the dominant big man to do his thing...but you are honestly telling me in a one to one game Kobe wont eat shaq alive..I think he would.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting LKRQUN33:</div><div class="quote_post">but you are honestly telling me in a one to one game Kobe wont eat shaq alive..I think he would.</div>

Basketball isn't a one on one game, so that's irrelevant.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Basketball isn't a one on one game, so that's irrelevant.</div>


Yeah thats true..but i don't think Shaq is better than Kobe, no way. I'm not denying shaq,though, don't get me wrong. Shaq is dominant, and scary..lol...but better than kobe, nope. Why did shaq make it to the finals without kobe because he has a pretty good supporting cast around him, just like Kobe would if he had that. But he doesn't. And shaq does, and i'm telling you shaq is not going to get any more rings..not because he is old..thats not it. But because its over for him, he isn't great enough to beat the monsters of the east...no way..and If Shaq would be better than kobe i think with the players he has right now...especially with the players he has right now..he'll be able to beat the piston...But he didn't do it last year in the Eastern conference and he definantley wont this year. But i truly believe, not because i'm a laker fan, but becuase i truly believe that if Kobe would be playing with all the current miami heat players..they would pass the Pistons because not even the great Detroit "D" would know what to do knowing that all the Heat players are good and not being able to leave kobe alone eith

 

I rather not talk about the mvp's because the time Shaq won MVP in the three peat i believe that was Kobe's!

 

I never thought I'd see a Laker fan defend Shaq. haha jk shape

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
i can...

Kobe is def. better than KG ( i'm not saying KG isn't incredible,but kobe is way better..) Kobe surpasses..
KG
Malone
and Shaq

These are the ones he already surpassed...the other he just might be better at the end of his carreeer.! </div>

Personally I agree with you putting Kobe above Kevin Garnett as I would as well. However I think him over Karl Malone and Shaquill O'Neal is a little far'fetchd.

Karl Malone and Shaq are both guys who have led their teans to the Finals. Now I know your going to come and mention John Stockton, Penny Hardaway, and of course the one and only Kobe Bryant. When the Utah Jazz were in their most glory of all days, it was Karl Malone winning the MVP Titles. When the LAkers were in their gloriest days it is more debatable who led the team. THe fact is Shaqs 3 consecutive Finals MVP trophies and his MVP regular season award in 2000. If Kobe was the key part of that team obviously it would've been him winning the MVP awards. I'm not sure if you remember, but in the early millenium and late 90s, Shaq was an absolute monster and he was the guy who the other team focused their game plan on stopping.

Shaquille O'Neal is a proven winner. Teams led by O'Neal have never been below .500. NEVER! Yes that includes his rookie year where he was drafted by a Magic team that won 21 games.

When Kobe decided he wanted to be the sole leader of the team, he inherited a team that was previously in the Finals. The tea won 56 games. When Kobe took over he couldn't evven carry them to .500. So there some possiblities.

1. Losing Derek Fisher, Karl Malone, and Horace Grant were the reason for the about 20 game decreas in wins.

^No way. Since they are the only ones who walked out on the Lakers they are the only ones listed. The others were traded.

2. Shaqs departure


This is bound to get some nasty replies.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting LKRQUN33:</div><div class="quote_post">I rather not talk about the mvp's because the time Shaq won MVP in the three peat i believe that was Kobe's!</div>
Okay, you lost all your credibility for me after this nonsense. That season Shaq was actually healthy for most of the year, he played 79 games. That was the first year they won, Kobe was not even better than Vince that season.

<font color=""navy"">Shaq:</font> 29.7 PPG | 13.6 RPG | 3.8 APG | 3.0 BPG | 57.4% FG

<font color=""Navy"">Kobe:</font> 22.5 PPG | 6.3 RPG | 4.9 APG

Truly no comparison here. Kobe had a 1 APG advantage, and that was basically it.

Lakers record that year, 67-15. Now obviously their's some other factors, but do you think it was a coincidence that Shaq's most healthy year was the year they won the most games?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">You left a lot of variables Diesel.

1) The team was previously built around Shaq. All the role players left were there to compliment Shaq, not Kobe.

2) Kobe Bryant & Lamar Odom were injured for several games last year

3) Devean George & Vlade Divac missed the entire year

4) Luke Walton & Brian Grant missed significant time, I know he's not much, but a thin roster, not having him hurts

5) Rudy T quit at mid season and the Lakers had to embark on a crash course in the Triangle offense

6) The players the Lakers got back in the Shaq deal was terrible</div>

1. The only players that were left from the Shaq season were Kobe obviously, Brian Cook, Devean George, and Luke Walton. I'm pretty sure that's it. Luke Walton and aybe Brian Cook are Shaq players. Blame management for that one.

2. Nothing to say there.

3. Did'nt George only miss half the year? Vlade Divac waas a pick-up. Not a guy that got i nthe PAyton/Shaq trade.

4. Briant Grant missed 13 games. Not necesarily significant time and Walton 21 games although it's not like he was really missed.

5. Blame Coaching Staff.

6. Not really. Lamar Odom was one of the biggest all-star snubs the year before and Butler was a good young player that can get you 15 PPG. Brian Grant the year before in Miami was a solid defender and rebounder.

 

I put Kobe in the level of Jordan, Wilt. Talent wise that is...
I cant judge his accomplishments until his career is over.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Diesel:</div><div class="quote_post">I never thought I'd see a Laker fan defend Shaq. haha jk shape
</div>


Laker fans should defend shaq, when its all said and done and shaq retires he's going to be considered one of the greatest Laker players ever. Let alone players in general.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I think I'd put Kobe ahead of Gervin. Not Barkley though.</div>

Barkley is prob the most overrated player in the NBA. When he was with the 76ers the guy went nowhere.

When he played with the Suns, he looked better because of KJ. Im tired of all his Kobe bashing. Maybe thats why I think he sucks even more now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, you lost all your credibility for me after this nonsense. That season Shaq was actually healthy for most of the year, he played 79 games. That was the first year they won, Kobe was not even better than Vince that season.

<font color="navy">Shaq:</font> 29.7 PPG | 13.6 RPG | 3.8 APG | 3.0 BPG | 57.4% FG

<font color="Navy">Kobe:</font> 22.5 PPG | 6.3 RPG | 4.9 APG

Truly no comparison here. Kobe had a 1 APG advantage, and that was basically it.

Lakers record that year, 67-15. Now obviously their's some other factors, but do you think it was a coincidence that Shaq's most healthy year was the year they won the most games?</div>

No disrespect to Shaq. He is one of the Laker greats. I think Kobe would have won MVP if he was the Lakers first option. Everyone knows that Shaq was the first option. Hence the most points, hence the MVP award. Again, Im not dissing Shaq. Im just sayin if he was a 2nd option (who would be stupid to do that at that point in Shaqs career) Kobe MAY have won an MVP in the Finals.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">No disrespect to Shaq. He is one of the Laker greats. I think Kobe would have won MVP if he was the Lakers first option. Everyone knows that Shaq was the first option. Hence the most points, hence the MVP award. Again, Im not dissing Shaq. Im just sayin if he was a 2nd option (who would be stupid to do that at that point in Shaqs career) Kobe MAY have won an MVP in the Finals.</div>

There's a pretty good reason Shaq was the first option.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">Barkley is prob the most overrated player in the NBA. When he was with the 76ers the guy went nowhere.

When he played with the Suns, he looked better because of KJ. Im tired of all his Kobe bashing. Maybe thats why I think he sucks even more now.</div>

That's an interesting argument you make about Barkley. Where exactly has Kobe gone in the post-Shaq era?

Barkley was the most skilled PF to ever play the game. Offensively, I think he was a top-15 player, all time. And of course, he was the best rebounder ever at his size. No other player in the history of the game averaged a double-double for as many consecutive seasons. He was probably the best player on the first Dream Team, if you watched them play. You might think he's overrated, but I actually consider him slightly underrated. He was a phenomenal talent.