<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you actually watched the game, you could see that Kobe didn't score the 81 in the flow of the game, and often looked like a hog taking bad shot after bad shot. He never had his team involved in the game.....it looked like a high school basketball game ( a crappy team with a ringer ). Jordan never did score 81, but Kobe never scored 61 in a playoff game......and just cause he scored 81 in a meaningless game dosen't rank him above any of the players you have mentioned. Shaq second fiddle to Kobe? You must be smokin some cheap drugs, cause Kobe is only leading LA to a first round exit this year. He is good for many reasons, but puting him at the top of the list because of an 81 point night against a terrible defensive team is ridiculous.</div> nice speech.... you do realize he was being sarcastic though right? lol
Reading this thread, I can't believe that there are people who rank David Robinson over Karl Malone. Does anybody remember how badly Malone dominated this guy in their primes? What he did to Robinson in the 94 and 96 playoffs was a worse, IMO, than what Hakeem did to DRob in 95. Just total domination not only offensively, but defensively as well; Malone shut him down (multiple post-season confrontations where he barely managed 11 points against Mail's defense) many games while scoring 30 per on his ass. As far as offensive game and defensive one on one abilities (as opposed to team defense), there was no comparison -- Malone was far and away the better player. DRob's prime lasted about 6 years, and during that period he was not nearly the player Malone was judging by their playoff confrontations -- not just as far as team result, but as far as the direct player matchup war. Mailman owned the guy, and I wasn't inclined to think this way until I watched those playoff matchups back in the 90s -- after that, I fully realized just how great Malone was and how overrated David had been. As far as any all-time ranking, Robinson shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Malone, let alone be ranked OVER him. And ranking Kobe over Karl? Come on. The guy was the best player of the 90s other than MJ, and if it wasn't for the GOAT we'd be talking about a two-time NBA champion, three-time MVP and 7 time scoring champion. This guy was a beast.
It's really quite dumb to rank Kobe over guys who have MVP's etc etc and have finished their career's. When his career ends, he'll probably be in the Top 20 range, but as of right now anyone putting Kobe higher than Top 30 is insane.
I'd rank him over Garnett and the aforementioned David Robinson. EDIT: throw in Pip and Iverson -- amongst those mentioned over Kobe previously -- as players I'd rank behind Crazy 8. Of note, I likely wouldn't place any of the above in the Top 30.
where do kobe place is nba history. he is on the top 0-20 he is between one of them. i can't go any higher b/c he showed me something this year that he didn't show last year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting suggsboy2:</div><div class="quote_post">where do kobe place is nba history. he is on the top 0-20 he is between one of them. i can't go any higher b/c he showed me something this year that he didn't show last year.</div> Kobe's historical status will largely depend on his postseason success without Shaq playing alongside him. If he can at least get his team to the second round, that would do a lot for his legacy.
At first they were saying "if he gets his team to the playoffs". Now they're sayin he has to advance in the playoffs lol. Kobe is GREAT. Not only because he can score at will, but because he plays lockdown defense too. He also plays with more energy than any other SG. Right now, he's the best shooting guard EVER behind MJ. By the time he retires, he could very well be the best.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">At first they were saying "if he gets his team to the playoffs". Now they're sayin he has to advance in the playoffs lol. Kobe is GREAT. Not only because he can score at will, but because he plays lockdown defense too. He also plays with more energy than any other SG. Right now, he's the best shooting guard EVER behind MJ. By the time he retires, he could very well be the best.</div> Him getting his team to the playoffs was never used as a measure of his rank in history, I never heard anyone say that before.
I would really like to hear the opinions of NBA legends on where they feel Kobe ranks. Most of these comments on this board are biased. lol. Kobe fans, Kobe haters.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Tell Kobe to win MVP first.</div> he probrably would if the media wasn't voting!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">he probrably would if the media wasn't voting!</div> Its true, you can't say for him to be a true player in history he has to win MVP. Its a false way of measuring importance. The media will always down Kobe so its gonna be hard if not impossible for him to win it. If he wins it omg lol I will treasure that moment
Whether people like it or not, sports players are ranked by what his/her teams accomplished, and the same logic applies to Kobe. Kobe did win 3 championship rings, but those accomplishments are shadowed by Shaq. And, without Shaq, Lakers missed PO last year, and probably will clinch either 7th or 8th seed in West. I would probably rank him at the level of KG, Iverson and Pippen, but there is no way he will sniff top 40 at this point until Lakers becomes a powerhouse in NBA...
Who cares, we're comparing him to guys with finished careers, if the question is where do you think he will rank when all is said and done, we could speculate, but right now, there's easily like 30 guys ahead of him. MVP's, All-NBA First teams and longetivity in production are not in his favour right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Most of these comments on this board are biased. lol. Kobe fans, Kobe haters.</div> well, I'm neither, so ill give you my opinion: I honestly believe that, when all is said and done, he will be concidered one of the top 10-15 players of all time. He is easily one of the best scorers of all time, and the only guy, IMO, that is keeping the current lakers from being the worst team in the league. you guys have to remember that's he's just now hitting his prime. that's kind of scary, when you think about it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Tell Kobe to win MVP first.</div> Tell the media to quit the hate first. Kobe has done things this season not even the great MJ ever did. I don't see how you can't give him the MVP. If LeBron or Wade dropped 81 everyone would gift-wrap the damn trophy for them. But nah. This is Kobe. This is the man you love to hate. But guess what? He is without a doubt the Most Valuable Player in the league.
j <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Its true, you can't say for him to be a true player in history he has to win MVP. Its a false way of measuring importance. The media will always down Kobe so its gonna be hard if not impossible for him to win it. If he wins it omg lol I will treasure that moment </div> Just remember that not even Jerry West nor Elgin Baylor ever won an MVP award.
I'd be more inclined to buy into Kobe as a deserving MVP choice if the case wasn't that he so clearly manufactured the situation that has given him this "team" and these stats. He wanted Shaq gone for this very reason -- i.e. so he could average as many shots as he wanted without Phil second-guessing him or Shaq getting pissed. Well he got it, only thing is that it came at the expense of the Lakers as an overall basketball team. Everybody knew that Kobe would explode statistically after ridding himself of Shaq, but the price would be to the team's success. That's exactly what has transpired, which begs the question of why, not even two years later, Kobe should win the MVP award for this calculated farce that he engineered. The idea of the MVP is that you're the most important guy in the league compared to ANYONE when it comes to your importance to the team -- that your team would be screwed without you. On one hand, this is definitely true of Kobe for this season. On the other, a year and a half ago Kobe subverted the Lakers ability to contend, effectivly creating this role for himself. Meaning as good as Kobe has been during this season, he was quite possibly more detrimental during the 04 off-season to LA. So while the Lakers would be one of the most pathetic teams in the league without Kobe on the court, it also must not be forgotten that he hurt this same organizaton through his egomaniacal need for recognition, thus ending the run of contention that started in 96/97 with Shaq. The Lakers are a middle of the road team at this point, a second round exit at their best. All thanks, both pro and con, to their would-be MVP. The good and the bad are too inherently intertwined here; Kobe has been more damaging than he has been helpful to the Lakers within this prism that he created. The paradigm shift that Kobe caused in his team has done more harm than good. Most of all it should be mentioned that any MVP should be about the team coming FIRST. That is not the case with Kobe if we consider what he did with Shaq, therein creating this very situation for himself as some false "savior" for the Lakers when he was truly their undoing. Which is why he should not get the award.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pumpfake:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd be more inclined to buy into Kobe as a deserving MVP choice if the case wasn't that he so clearly manufactured the situation that has given him this "team" and these stats. He wanted Shaq gone for this very reason -- i.e. so he could average as many shots as he wanted without Phil second-guessing him or Shaq getting pissed. Well he got it, only thing is that it came at the expense of the Lakers as an overall basketball team. Everybody knew that Kobe would explode statistically after ridding himself of Shaq, but the price would be to the team's success. That's exactly what has transpired, which begs the question of why, not even two years later, Kobe should win the MVP award for this calculated farce that he engineered. The idea of the MVP is that you're the most important guy in the league compared to ANYONE when it comes to your importance to the team -- that your team would be screwed without you. On one hand, this is definitely true of Kobe for this season. On the other, a year and a half ago Kobe subverted the Lakers ability to contend, effectivly creating this role for himself. Meaning as good as Kobe has been during this season, he was quite possibly more detrimental during the 04 off-season to LA. So while the Lakers would be one of the most pathetic teams in the league without Kobe on the court, it also must not be forgotten that he hurt this same organizaton through his egomaniacal need for recognition, thus ending the run of contention that started in 96/97 with Shaq. The Lakers are a middle of the road team at this point, a second round exit at their best. All thanks, both pro and con, to their would-be MVP. The good and the bad are too inherently intertwined here; Kobe has been more damaging than he has been helpful to the Lakers within this prism that he created. The paradigm shift that Kobe caused in his team has done more harm than good. Most of all it should be mentioned that any MVP should be about the team coming FIRST. That is not the case with Kobe if we consider what he did with Shaq, therein creating this very situation for himself as some false "savior" for the Lakers when he was truly their undoing. Which is why he should not get the award.</div> Let me dispell this myth about Kobe riding Shaq out of town. Shaq demanded to be traded and it wasn't because of Kobe. It was because the owner, didn't want to pay him $33Million a year after his current deal expired in 2006. The Lakers organization had an easy decision to make. A) Extend Shaq at $33M a year and try winning a title with him, eventhough he's taking up OVER 50% of the salary cap. Sign Kobe for half the price, who's younger, and still have money to put spend on quality players. The only reason why Shaq is working in Miami is the fact Dwyane Wade is still on his rookie deal. Shaq also agreed to take a huge paycut, down to $20M a year instead of the $33M he was asking from the Lakers. He also dedicated the offseason into getting shape, something he didn't do for 3 straight seasons with the Lakers.
