<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you kidding me? Kobe hasn't really that much in his career that you can consider players like Bird, Oscar, Hakeem Olajuwan, David Robinson, Tim Duncan (even though he's still playing), Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, to name a few, below him. I do believe he'll be rememberd as one of the greatest players when he retires, which could still be 10 years down the road (when he's 37) but for now, enjoy the (rise to) peaking that Kobe is on and comment on his legacy afterwards.</div> Kobe> Reggie Miller, David Robinson, John Stockton David Robinson is the biggest choker ever. Reggie's stats aren't half as good as Kobe's and he hasn't won a title. I would put Karl Malone (right now) over Kobe but not Stockton
Kobe is amazing....but he has SOO MUCH more to show. Too many other GREATS in front of his name. BUT DAMN that last shot against phoenix was beautiful! lol
I put Kobe on the top 10 players ever lists. I don't care if he still has many morte years or not. He was good before this season. But, I'm fully convinced it would be difficult to realistically put 11 names infront of him. It's hard to compare small men (Small For NBA Sanadards) like Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, to big dominating men like Wilt Chamberlain, and Shaquille O'neal. But I feel you can still already rank Kobe on the top 10 even though comparisions are difficult and he's a long ways from retirement. First off he already has 10 first ballot HOF seasons in the book. For most players that College ate up part of the begining of their adults lives, that's going to be, not fully, but yet the majoraty of their careers. They say to have true realistically possabilities for the HOF you have to have atleast 10 years and with a good consistant 8 years mixed in there. Well Kobe's played well 10/10 years, and has reached his prime in his 10th season. Proveing alot of fans right that Kobe very well could play 20 seasons. Once this is all threw Kobe very well could be the greatest over all player all time. But for instance, MJ retired, twice - only to come back twice. The first time he retired he had exactly 10 years in the history books. Well they already, even at that point made reference to MJ, as the best NBA player all time. That said, I think it could easily, atleast realistically be said now, that Kobe is already on the top 10 greatest ever to play the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The first time he retired he had exactly 10 years in the history books. Well they already, even at that point made reference to MJ, as the best NBA player all time. That said, I think it could easily, atleast realistically be said now, that Kobe is already on the top 10 greatest ever to play the game.</div> ....
You didnt intentionally mean to draw a comparison there did you? cuz if u did---- here ya go... <font color="red">You really don't need to double-post, read JBB guidelines. -TBM</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well Kobe's played well 10/10 years, and has reached his prime in his 10th season. ... Once this is all threw Kobe very well could be the greatest over all player all time... for instance,MJ retired, twice - only to come back twice. The first time he retired he had exactly 10 years in the history books. Well they already, even at that point made reference to MJ, as the best NBA player all time. That said, I think <font color=""Purple"">it could easily, atleast realistically be said now, that Kobe is already on the top 10 greatest ever to play the game.</font></div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">.....i personally thank he is few miles ahead of Jordan indvidually play....</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So if you give Kobe another 13 seasons in the league, which isn't that farfetched, I could see him breaking the record.</div> Jordan when he first retired from 84-85' to 92-93' played 9 seasons. From the time he came back till the time he retired from the Bulls 94-95' to 97-98' he played another 3 seasons 13 total. In 86' however, Jordan played only 17 games due to injury, and in his first season back in 95' he played just the last 18 games; both instances he was ineligeble for awards or statistcal ranking. Take both of those seasons out and you got an 11 year natural career in Chicago Kobe has just finished his 10th year, so far in his career: <font color=""Red"">16,866 pts</font> 45.1% 3,148ast 3,634 reb 1,059 stl 1 scoring title, 4 all-NBA 1st team, 4 all -Defensive 1st team 3 NBA titles 0 Finals MVP'S <font color=""RoyalBlue"">0 NBA MVP's.</font> . Jordan's 11 year career with the Bulls, in those years: <font color=""Red"">28,412 pts</font> 51.5% 4,869 ast 5,655 reb 2,866 stl 10 scoring titles, 10 all-NBA 1st team, 9 all- Defensive 1st team, 6 NBA titles 6 Finals MVP'S <font color=""RoyalBlue"">5 NBA MVP'S</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan when he first retired from 84-85' to 92-93' played 9 seasons. From the time he came back till the time he retired from the Bulls 94-95' to 97-98' he played another 3 seasons 13 total. In 86' however, Jordan played only 17 games due to injury, and in his first season back in 95' he played just the last 18 games; both instances he was ineligeble for awards or statistcal ranking. Take both of those seasons out and you got an 11 year natural career in Chicago Kobe has just finished his 10th year, so far in his career: <font color=""Red"">16,866 pts</font> 45.1% 3,148ast 3,634 reb 1,059 stl 1 scoring title, 4 all-NBA 1st team, 4 all -Defensive 1st team 3 NBA titles 0 Finals MVP'S <font color=""RoyalBlue"">0 NBA MVP's.</font> . Jordan's 11 year career with the Bulls, in those years: <font color=""Red"">28,412 pts</font> 51.5% 4,869 ast 5,655 reb 2,866 stl 10 scoring titles, 10 all-NBA 1st team, 9 all- Defensive 1st team, 6 NBA titles 6 Finals MVP'S <font color=""RoyalBlue"">5 NBA MVP'S</font></div> You actually wasted 5-6 minutes of your time PM'ing to come back and look at your response on this thread to my previuose post? Okay,well, if you took the time to private message me to do that it must have been pretty important to you that.I seen your response. Well, to make you happy I have invested the time to see your post. And I'm no more impressed with it, than alot of other of the no brainer posts that "SOME" , not all "SOME" of the other fans have posted that are really pointless posts. Anyways, your a Laker fan, and it seems my compareing Kobe to MJ offended you some where in the post. Well if that's so I apologize. God, this forum has alot of Laker fans; and so far none have PM'ed me to tell me to go view a post they wrote because it offened them. Infact I won't tell you which Laker fan it was, it's that persons to tell only if they want to; but I've had a /very passionate Laker fan that on their forum all of the time who's been a member for 2 years PM, and told me I was doing good. Sorry to any Laker fans that this post offended. But correct me if I'm wrong Laker fans, but on this post that AirTight actually got offended over did I not give Kobe props. I mean any one on this forum that can do it, please point out the spot on this post he quoted me on that I actually said a single solid minor thing that was insensitive about Kobe. LOL, I thought I wrote a posts compareing him to who probly more experts than not actually think is still the best ever; And infact added that Kobe's the only one with the shot to pass him up in the same area's of tallent they both have. Ummm.....?/?/? - Am I missing something did I make an accidentle jab in there I'm not aware of?
What?? are you sure you read that right? Laker fan?? Im aruging on Jordan's behalf. I thought you supported Kobe right, I have no idea what you we're talking about in that last post... but- my point is Kobe or anyone else should never be compared to Jordan until he brings something that is comparable
To be honest, the only thing you can even compare Kobe to Jordan is their skill level, natural talent and athleticism (2 of 3 which you can argue Kobe has more of)...that's about it. When it comes to accomplishments, Jordan blow him out of the water.
I cant even agree right there. How can you say Kobe has more skill than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>? Esp When all he did was emulate the man's moves. How can you say more talent; as talent and skill are only apparent when they equate to stats and winning--- and Kobe is miles away from what Jordan has done(EVERYTHING), even playing in a lesser league with much lesser players. And how can you possibly say he's more athletic than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>.... what is that based on? Dunking-? hell no. Acrobatics--? no. Strength&Stamina--no. >>Did you see Kobe's dunk contest?- the league decided to cancel the next year because of ratings. <u>Name me 3 athletic plays from Kobe that should stand out in our minds,</u> then try to narrow down to 3 from <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>----- you cant tell me they're even close athletically. I saw <font color=""Red"">Jordan </font>do things at 40 I've yet to see Kobe do. I kno u remember that <font color=""Red"">pin/grab </font>in Chi. the 51/45 back to back. the ridiculous moves--- that Kobe till this day still cant duplicate. Cmon yall, why do I have to do yall like you got amnesia or something; people acting like they dont remember the man, or that their old vhs highlight tapes stop workin or somethin ---and then to sit there and ignore the #'s and awards staring you in the face--- once again against <u>legendary</u> competition; to get 5 MVP's 10 All NBA 1st's and 10 scoring titles in 11 eligible years aint too bad tho right. I dunno maybe im just trippin, I guess Kobe prolly is better. Maybe I just like to argue
^^this is probably the best post you've had yet. some of arguments were pretty weak, but this is good. But, legendary competition, we need to wait on that. also athletically it is tough. i am not sure if this is a real vid, but i am pretty sure it is. http://youtube.com/watch?v=s38XUZgGxng&search=nba%20amazing watch this. Jordan could never do those. And great points about people forgetting jordan. It does seem like people dont remember all the things he could do.
.....Well my weak posts sure shut the hell out of a few of these threads right. <u>I never posted anything weak in my life</u>. I cant believe you even said that. That's damn near worse than saying Kobe over J. - As for legendary competition;... What your'e tellin me is>>>> Kobe cant win MVP over <font color=""DimGray"">Iverson</font> but could win over <font color=""Blue"">Bird</font> and <font color=""Blue"">KMalone</font>? He cant win DPOY over <font color=""DimGray"">Artest</font> but would win over <font color=""Blue"">The Dream or Pippen</font> ? He cant win a scoring title over <font color=""DimGray"">Mcgrady</font> but would win over <font color=""Blue"">DRob Wilk Dant </font>Young <font color=""Blue"">Shaq</font> ? He cant make the All NBA team over<font color=""DimGray""> Nash </font>and <font color=""DimGray"">AI</font> but would over <font color=""Blue"">Magic Stockton Drex</font>?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I cant even agree right there. How can you say Kobe has more skill than Jordan? Esp When all he did was emulate the man's moves. How can you say more talent; as talent and skill are only apparent when they equate to stats and winning--- and Kobe is miles away from what Jordan has done(EVERYTHING), even playing in a lesser league with much lesser players. And how can you possibly say he's more athletic than Jordan.... what is that based on? Dunking-? hell no. Acrobatics--? no. Strength&Stamina--no. >>Did you see Kobe's dunk contest?- the league decided to cancel the next year because of ratings. Name me 3 athletic plays from Kobe that should stand out in our minds, then try to narrow down to 3 from Jordan----- you cant tell me they're even close athletically. I saw Jordan do things at 40 I've yet to see Kobe do. I kno u remember that pin/grab in Chi. the 51/45 back to back. the ridiculous moves--- that Kobe till this day still cant duplicate. Cmon yall, why do I have to do yall like you got amnesia or something; people acting like they dont remember the man, or that their old vhs highlight tapes stop workin or somethin ---and then to sit there and ignore the #'s and awards staring you in the face--- once again against legendary competition; to get 5 MVP's 10 All NBA 1st's and 10 scoring titles in 11 eligible years aint too bad tho right. I dunno maybe im just trippin, I guess Kobe prolly is better. Maybe I just like to argue </div> skill on offense, you can definitely <u>argue</u>(that being the key word) that Kobe is as much/more versatile scorer than Jordan. Kobe can drive to the lane at will just like jordan, although he can't finish nearly as good as Jordan. He has the post moves, footwork, and drop step booked. He's still improving his midrange, but even so, he's still deady with the J. Not to mention, he has the range Jordan never had. I'm in no way implying Jordan is better, but you can mos def argue Kobe is just as/ more skilled than Jordan. Now with your part on the athleticism. Kobe is/was faster than Jordan ever was, i don't even think you would argue that, but look at how quick they both are or how high they both jump. You can even say Jordan was an overrated dunker(i'd put VC, Kobe, Nique, JRich), but that really has little to do with this debate. In my mind, it's really no debate as to who is better (Jordan), and will always be better in their careers, but in terms of natural talent, athleticism and skill, it's debateable. But IMO, i personally believe TMac has more natural talent than anyone i have ever seen.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">.....Well my weak posts sure shut the hell out of a few of these threads right. <u>I never posted anything weak in my life</u>. I cant believe you even said that. That's damn near worse than saying Kobe over J. - As for legendary competition;... What your'e tellin me is>>>> Kobe cant win MVP over <font color=""DimGray"">Iverson</font> but could win over <font color=""Blue"">Bird</font> and <font color=""Blue"">KMalone</font>? He cant win DPOY over <font color=""DimGray"">Artest</font> but would win over <font color=""Blue"">The Dream or Pippen</font> ? He cant win a scoring title over <font color=""DimGray"">Mcgrady</font> but would win over <font color=""Blue"">DRob Wilk Dant </font>Young <font color=""Blue"">Shaq</font> ? He cant make the All NBA team over<font color=""DimGray""> Nash </font>and <font color=""DimGray"">AI</font> but would over <font color=""Blue"">Magic Stockton Drex</font>?</div> excuse me, i meant no disrespect, by weak i meant very bias and repetative concerning kobe and mj. your last post brought up a newer point that didnt just bash kobe. and ai has the third highest ppg of all time. very very close to jordan and could surpass him. Bird imo is extremely overrated. he was a do it all player that was a not that at good at defense scorer. and guys like dirk, kg, ai, shaq, duncan, kidd, are all legendary. and artest is a speciman, he is so quick for a sf that weighs 260 or 270! he is an amazing defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">^^this is probably the best post you've had yet. some of arguments were pretty weak, but this is good. But, legendary competition, we need to wait on that. also athletically it is tough. i am not sure if this is a real vid, but i am pretty sure it is. http://youtube.com/watch?v=s38XUZgGxng&search=nba%20amazing watch this. Jordan could never do those. And great points about people forgetting jordan. It does seem like people dont remember all the things he could do.</div> Maybe the behind the back dunk is legit (you can't tell from the angle how high the basket really is). That dunk from two feet beyond the free throw line is obviously fake.
i think so too, but damn! that behind the back was an amazing new dunk when jr did it 2 years ago without the spin reverse deal going
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe is/was faster than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font> ever was, i don't even think you would argue that, but look at how quick they both are or how high they both jump</div> No you're right I wouldn't argue that--- Cuz there aint no way in hell Kobe is faster than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>. I was thinking about this a while ago; how many times do you see Kobe just drive by his defender from the triple threat and finish strong ? Without crossing over, without trying to get some sloppy ass and 1/ im talking about just driving by and finishing strong over whoever else is waiting at the goal?? Rarely. I've seen people try to say Kobe's faster as well as has better handles. How can he do a cross over about 2 or 3 times everygame yet every single time the defender is always still in front of him? I dont see the benefit of it. Why doesn't Kobe get a higher # of blocks & steals if he's much more athletic? Esp. since he uses less energy for points rebs and assists? You saying he jumps higher than <font color=""Red"">Jordan </font>now too?? Like I was saying man, I dont think its even close athletically nomatter what you look at for Kobe. You say he's a better dunker than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>? Kobe Bryant a better dunker than Michael <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>? - - - <font color=""Purple""> I agree Kobe is versatile and skilled-- almost to the level of Jordan</font>. -- But it's a <u>scale</u> comparison. Like saying onea them hotwheel race track car's goes 300 mph >>> sure if it does if we were 2 inches tall. He has similar TYPE of skills-- that doesnt mean he's as good with those skills.?>> And I think the stats and record books show this. I really feel If Kobe were better than <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>, we would know. He would have in 10 years, amassed a collection of awards and statistics that we have never seen //- after playing in a league without many of the truly great players <font color=""Red"">Jordan </font>had to compete for his individual awards with. And Prince, haha how do you say Bird is extremely overrated-- yet AI KG Nowitzki and Kidd are Legends?
^^Shaq and duncan are considered top ever by their position. hakeem and malone are the only ones that can be considered better in jordan's era. please, quit saying that kobe's competition is weak. lets see some facts. i mentioned ai having the third highest ppg ever, maybe higher than jordan in the future, but you ignored it and kept saying that this nba is weak. Prove it, i am not convinced
