I'll restrain myself and not turn this into a kg thread. MJ was extremely athletic, but he never jumped OVER a 7'2" player and dunked it. VC is the most athletic guy in the nba ever, and hwo is he not strong. this guy dunks on anybody, including Zo
to be honest when it comes to pure dunking Vince might be the best all time.......dudes leaping ability is just insane.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince carter stronger, lol. come on a breeze can knock this guy over and it has. MJ was very strong, he was alot stronger than he looked. AI hasn't had a 40 inch vert since his rookie year, jordan's was 42 inches anyways. Kobe bryant is debatable as of now the only people who really support that claim tend to be laker fans.</div> Vince isn't as strong as Lebron (OBVIOUSLY since Lebron is built like a tank), but def. stronger than Jordan was. I think you're underrating his physical and more so talking about his mental strength (with the injuries). Vince is like a spring jumping off the ground and it takes strength to do the acrobatics he does. If he were weak, he wouldn't be able to do the things he does. Kobe is more athletic than Jordan IMO, and i'm not the biggest Kobe fan. Kobe was faster(sprinting speed is only matched by the small PGs) and quicker(or just as quick..), not to mention his strength.
Those who are saying Kobe is faster and quicker than Jordan ... are you comparing him to Jordan of the mid-90s, or Jordan of the 80s? Remember, when Jordan came out of his first retirement, Jordan was in his mid-30s. But when he was in his 20s, his athleticism in all facets -- speed, quickness, coordination, leaping ability -- was off the charts. If Kobe Bryant was more athletic than Jordan in the 80s, than he's a fool for not attacking the basket more than he does and settling for so many jumpers.
^^^ an opinion backed by at least <u>some kind </u>of evidence. Whats difficult about that yall? I'm not even gonna debate the athleticism anymore until I post a collage of pics on here of <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font> displaying feats none of these guys- NONE of these guys could duplicate till this day. On a real note, it seems like some of the Kobe fans are dodging my stats and official accounts of documented achievment used in these arguments; wether for my own argument or against one of yours=== It seems like you're reading thru it but not acknowledging it as having any kind of merit. Sure.. stats dont mean everything-- <u>but they do mean something</u>. And I've tried to acknowledge ever piece of fact you guys have brought up in support of your guys over mine, or Kobe over Jordan.--- Well actually, i gotta take that back. <font color=""Red"">What facts were those again, run those by me again.</font> One example would be right here >> <font color=""MediumTurquoise"">Career Ft% Jordan 83.5% 8.18 fta/g Bryant 83.4% 7.34 fta/g </font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">sometimes, stats don't say tell the whole story, soemtimes, you need to think subjectively, rather analytically. I am, however surprised at Jordan's free throw %, but it really is tough to say who was the better free throw shooter</div> Now cmon man, authentiq, how you gonna argue with me about the freethrows? I mean saying that the freethrow stats dont tell the story, when <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font> shot and made more and attempted more per game. Aight, how else can we look at freethrow shooting- so I dont think you're just biased for Kobe. You said that the stats dont tell the story; What other way can we look at their freethrow game and decide who's better? Tell me how else we can look at that and say Kobe may be the better freethrow shooter. On that topic, I cant recall 1 fact yall have introduced to suggest that one of your guys are better than one of my counterparts I've mentioned ; esp. Kobe vs <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>. Show me one stat. - Show me all of em, lets get this outta the way.
^^KObe is just in love with his jumper like tmac and vc are. players get older, and are sick of getting killed when they go to the lane, so they start pulling up for j's. That is my theory on it. Whoops, durvasa's post what i am talking about
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now cmon man, authentiq, how you gonna argue with me about the freethrows? I mean saying that the freethrow stats dont tell the story, when Jordan shot and made more and attempted more per game. Aight, how else can we look at freethrow shooting- so I dont think you're just biased for Kobe. You said that the stats dont tell the story; What other way can we look at their freethrow game and decide who's better? Tell me how else we can look at that and say Kobe may be the better freethrow shooter.</div>you seriously can't be naive to think i'm biased for him when all my posts clearly state Jordan is better, HOWEVER, kobe is better at certain aspects of the game. Like I said, can you really say Jordan is a better free throw shooter when there is only a .1% difference? Not to mention, it doesn't show that Kobe has improved as a shooter throughout his career, which was what i was originally implying a few posts back, but got lost in this free-throw debate. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe Bryant was more athletic than Jordan in the 80s, than he's a fool for not attacking the basket more than he does and settling for so many jumpers.</div>word. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^ an opinion backed by at least some kind of evidence. Whats difficult about that yall? I'm not even gonna debate the athleticism anymore until I post a collage of pics on here of Jordan displaying feats none of these guys- NONE of these guys could duplicate till this day. </div> That's reaching fam. How can you say no one is athletic as Jordan when there are guys right now who are more athletic than Jordan. Like i said, Jordan's athleticism is overrated, not that it matters since his greatness never stemmed through athleticism, but rather his mental game(which is unmatched).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is more athletic than Jordan IMO, and i'm not the biggest Kobe fan. Kobe was faster(sprinting speed is only matched by the small PGs) and quicker(or just as quick..), not to mention his strength.</div> There's no way that Kobe, at age 26, is more athletic than Michael Jordan was at age 26. Anyone who thinks Kobe is quicker and more agile than Jordan was back then -- what's the basis for this? I mean, just compare their steal and block rates in their 20s (both pretty strong indications of quickness and agility): It's not even close. And don't give me this garbage, "Oh, Kobe doesn't try to go for steals and blocks!" Well, what DOES he do that makes you think he's quicker than Jordan was?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">There's no way that Kobe, at age 26, is more athletic than Michael Jordan was at age 26. Can Kobe even dunk from the free throw line these days?</div> Why did you quote my post? i said nothing about kobe or jordan's athletisism. i simply stated my feelings on why very athletic players start shooting jumpers later in their careers. I think that jordan is more athletic and better anyway. i've stated that plenty of times
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said, can you really say Jordan is a better free throw shooter when there is only a .1% difference?</div> - Unless you're saying the'res another motive towards shooting freethrows other than trying to make the most you can You brought up the freethrows; to me it was just another example. So no you cant say Jordan was a better FT shooter over a .1% difference ( even with the .7 more attempts /g) But you can say Kobe is? Hey I got stats man; - if you got a stat for that or something else that's substantial then cool-- I could just come out here with opinion too; but I know It wouldnt mean anything to you or anybody else. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">AIRTIGHT, stats arent everything. i feel that dirk will be better than larry bird in the future, not baseed on statistice becuase larry put up great stats because of the team he was on, but dirk is really emerging as a force. he is alreadya abetter shooter than larry, and is getting there in rebounding and defense</div> And Fresh, I still gotta read you argue why Dirk is better or will be better than<font color=""SeaGreen""> Bird</font>. -- considering <font color=""SeaGreen"">Bird </font>was a 6'9 220lb slow, unathletic old school white dude who outrebounds Dirk at 7'0, scores better inside, plays better defense --- {on top of out doing Dirk at anything else offensively} >> where's your blocks or rebounds argument for Dirk that you used to rationalize Lebron? <font color=""SeaGreen""> Bird </font>and Dirk are similar as shooters, hey I may even give Dirk an edge on pure shot; but this is a game, there is no pure shot in a game. You say Larry put up great stats <u>because</u> of his team .... like Dirk is out there playing on the retard squad or something. Dude's had arguably the most talented team in the league like 4 years straight. ??
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Why did you quote my post? i said nothing about kobe or jordan's athletisism. i simply stated my feelings on why very athletic players start shooting jumpers later in their careers. I think that jordan is more athletic and better anyway. i've stated that plenty of times</div> Sorry, quoted the wrong person by accident.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You brought up the freethrows; to me it was just another example. So no you cant say Jordan was a better FT shooter over a .1% difference ( even with the .7 more attempts /g) But you can say Kobe is? Hey I got stats man; - if you got a stat for that or something else that's substantial then cool-- I could just come out here with opinion too; but I know It wouldnt mean anything to you or anybody else.</div>of course it does, no one here on JBB should belittle anyone else anyways . <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not even close. And don't give me this garbage, "Oh, Kobe doesn't try to go for steals and blocks!" Well, what DOES he do that makes you think he's quicker than Jordan was?</div>Nice stat Durvasa, but quickness cannot be determined through these stats alone. For instance, IMO Lebron is more athletic than Jordan was but in all likelyhood his steals/blocks per game probably won't be higher. That doesn't disprove why i believe he is more athletic. Bryant's pure speed and strength IMO beat Jordan, but i'll be honest I can't prove it. Judging who is more athletic between two nearly-equal physically gifted athletes is ver difficult, statistics are not that great of an indicator for these type of arguements. Peace.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">of course it does, no one here on JBB should belittle anyone else anyways . Nice stat Durvasa, but quickness cannot be determined through these stats alone. For instance, IMO Lebron is more athletic than Jordan was but in all likelyhood his steals/blocks per game probably won't be higher. That doesn't disprove why i believe he is more athletic.</div> LeBron does not have the same quickness or agility Jordan had. He's much stronger, and he's bigger.
I took a day off and still Prince or nobody else other than authentiq posted for Kobe and the new school? -- well on this one thread at least, I see yall posted alot on the other ones
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">I took a day off and still Prince or nobody else other than authentiq posted for Kobe and the new school? -- well on this one thread at least, I see yall posted alot on the other ones</div> I couldnt get on for like two days dude. Server problems or something, and damn you dont read anything. i said that dirk might become better than bird. and dirk is very unathletic and white (i guess being white makes a difference?) and i have said many times i think that jordan is better than kobe, i just dont like how you are bashing this era of players and kobe so badly. you extremely underrate these players.
You underrate Bird.... To even suggest Dirk may become better than him-- the guy's 28 now, how many more years until he changes his entire game to the point that he's better than Bird? -- and of course accomplishes all the things <font color=""green"">Bird </font>did> which he has a lot of catching up to do. When are we gonna see this begin man? And you still havent explained why you didnt comment about Dirk's rebounding and defensive being inferior to <font color=""Green"">Bird</font>; and as to why you didnt ridicule and Dirk for his lack luster performance for his size as you did to rationalized Lebrons game?… You don’t remember saying that? Here are a few clips <u>TheFreshPrince </u> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The impressive factor is what does it for me. i am amazed by what ai can do at his size. i expect lebron to do the things he does, because of his size.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If AI's skillset was in lebron james body, he would be out the this world amazing.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Plus the cat is 6'8" 240 and lightning quick, what do you expect? he should be grabbing boards and driving through the lane like nobodys buisness. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">what has lebron done. also nothing separates kobe's body frame from any other 6'6" sg that is too skinny as a rookie. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"You are penalizing LeBron, and you're rewarding players like AI. It's quite obvious. Don't even deny it. " Of course i am, that is what my post said</div> to conclude.... for now <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i expect lebron to do the things he does, because of his size</div> <u>Dirk vs Bird</u>
Dirk isn't Bird.....Dirk is too soft....I don't think I ever recall Larry going 2 for 14 in a Finals game.
Kobe has BEEN the next Jordan everybody has been waiting for, but ppl take his stripes because his smile isn't as pretty as Jordans was . GET OVER IT! Since when does personality, HYPE, or commercials dictate who's better than who. MJ is the greatest overall right now, but Kobe is breathing down his neck. He's currently the league's best player by far, ask King James he said it himself.
He used to be. That is until DWade found his game. Wade plays so much more like Jordan than Kobe it's amazing. The only person that need to "get over it" is you. Kobe had his turn, now Wade and Lebron are the "heir apparents" so to speak.
