After Rashard's comments on the matter and Shiek's proposal, I decided to come up with a few proposals of my own to see just how realistic it is that he might be traded. Finding teams was hard enough, as to me it seemed the only teams that would concievably trade for him would be teams who need that final piece to push them over the hump for a title in the next season or two, or the Knicks. <u>Teams I ruled out:</u> Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas, Miami - self explanatory. Indiana - the trade for Peja rules this out. Denver - possibly the best fit of all, but not with George Karl and Melo's form. New Orleans, Charlotte - don't have the pieces necessary. <u>Trade One:</u> Ray Allen and Flip Murray for Tim Thomas, Chris Duhon and Ben Gordon. Reasons for: Chicago have reportedly admired Ray for a while now, and he'll never be more available than he is now. Gordon is still undersized too, so Ray gives them a legit shooting guard in the backcourt and allows them to slide Hinrich back to the point. Flip takes Gordon's role as scorer/enery guy off the bench. Duhon also gives us exactly what we want - a tough back-up point who can play D and has a bit of size. Reasons against: Do the Bulls want to trade a young up and coming star in Gordon for Ray? Do they want to slide Hinrich back to the point, and do they want to trade Duhon who has been outstanding since they matched Toronto's contract to him in the summer. Also, it would be a stretch for the Sonics to play Gordon and Ridnour in the same backcourt, given both are small and can't stop John Crotty. <u>Trade Two:</u> Ray Allen and Reggie Evans for Channing Frye, Penny Hardaway and a first rounder. Reasons for: It's New York - could Isiah resist obtaining another guy on a max deal? He may see Ray as the sort of consistent scorer to get the Knicks back on track. Larry Brown also reportedly loves Reggie Evans, who would be a great fit in a frontcourt that is very soft. For the Supes, it would be a true indication of rebuilding, gaining a lottery pick, an expiring deal and another promising big. Reasons against: For starters, the Knicks are telling everyone they won't trade Frye. Secondly, do they really want to take Ray with Q, Jalen and Crawford around? Normally Isiah doesn't think about things like that, but my guess is they'd probably insist on sending JC back, and they may not want to give up what will likely be a top five pick. Also, do we really want to trade Ray badly enough that we'll take back a deal that doesn't guarantee a marquee player? <u>Trade Three:</u> Ray Allen for Theo Ratliff, Jarrett Jack and a first rounder. Reasons for: Portland may be rebuilding, but right now they are going nowhere. Nate gets Ray back and he will finally have a guy on the low post who will draw a double team in Randolph. The Blazers lose Ratliff's deal and keep talented youngsters Webster (who would learn a lot from Ray), Telfair and Outlaw. Seattle gets a legit shotblocker and the point guard we coveted on draft day. Reasons against: For starters, asking for a first rounder is probably a little bit farfetched, given it's going to be a very good one, but without it the trade looks too heavily weighted in Portland's favour. Ratliff would be a decent acquisition in theory, but the path has been set to split minutes in the middle with Swift and Petro, and with the trade for Wilcox, where would Ratliff fit? Paul Allen would probably prefer to move Miles too. Trade Four: Ray Allen and Reggie Evans for Steve Francis and the rights to Fran Vazquez. Reasons for: This time last year there were rumours linking Francis to the Sonics, and while he doesn't seem to help us much on paper, it may just be that management want to do something different to mix things up a bit. Orlando on the other hand would never lose a rebounding battle with Evans next to Dwight Howard, while a good chance of acquiring Darko may mean they don't think Vazquez is coming over anytime soon. Reasons against: Seems a trade for the sake of a trade from our point of view. Francis isn't going to give us anything that Ray won't, apart from a lower field goal mark and younger legs, while the draft rights to Vazquez mean little at this stage. Plus, does anyone really want Francis right now? Orlando would probably trade him for a half-eaten pie and a back issue of Ron Artest's nigga-beats at this point.
I like the Bulls proposal and gives Chicago the All-Star piece needed to pursue Kevin Garnett. Ray Allen was originally drafted by the TWolves (shortly swapped for Marbury), and along with two 1st round picks, it might be enough to pry KG away. Adding Gordon & Duhon will create another logjam in the backcourt. The right head coach could make it work, but size becomes an issue with Gordon and Ridnour starting. Is this move enough to keep Rashard Lewis around? Do the Sonics really want to pull off a blockbuster without a head coach in place first?
I'd welcome any trade involving Ray at this point. I'm not sure if it's playing for a lame duck coach, or running with deferential youngsters, but his shot selection and horrible defense are really getting to me. What about Larry Hughes? I'm not sure if he's on the block but with him being out for the season and the Cavs maybe desperate to do something to keep LeBron it wouldn't hurt to ask. He just signed a mega-deal but still short of Ray's max numbers. As far as what you proposed, I'd do either 1 or 2 in a heartbeat. #3 and 4 I wouldn't, the Portland deal isn't enough and I want no part of Franics.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks aren't opening to trade Frye.</div> Which is why I said the Knicks don't want to trade Frye. These are just me making trades up, not rumours.
Something better would be Penny's expiring contract and Lee/Nate or both to Seattle. Lee is sort of like Reggie Evans, but better offensively and Nate is from Seattle and will boost ticket sales.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Something better would be Penny's expiring contract and Lee/Nate or both to Seattle. Lee is sort of like Reggie Evans, but better offensively and Nate is from Seattle and will boost ticket sales.</div> The Knicks GM would have to be a complete idiot to trade Nate for anything right now...oh wait a minute, maybe this COULD happen...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting psheehy:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks GM would have to be a complete idiot to trade Nate for anything right now...oh wait a minute, maybe this COULD happen...</div> How so?
We're talking about the same GM who thinks Marbury and Francis can emulate Earl Monroe and Walt Frazier.
He certainly could be traded. I just think when you get a player like Nate there is a lot you can do with him on his rookie contract that you are going to have to pay a lot more for in anyone else. The mere fact that as a rookie he actually sees floor time under Larry Brown lets you know that he is pretty special.
Larry really had no choice but to play Nate with the Knicks being so thin at point guard, especially with Marbury getting injured, something very rare. Nate is good, but for a chance at a 6-time all-star, and a player who can easily be considered the best shooter in the league, it doesn't seem like a bad move putting Nate in a Ray Allen deal. Chances are Nate will never be as good as Allen, anyway.
If we do trade Ray, I'm hoping that we bring in promising talent or draft picks instead of expiring deals. We have never been a place where quality free agents want to come. The reputation of our front office is that we will not break the bank for anyone--and anyone is capable of being dealt. No high priced free agent to be wants to go somewhere where they are not receiving top dollar, and Seattle will not offer top dollar to any player who is a coveted asset. The trouble with that proposal is that I don't think that there are too many good young players that teams want to part with. If I was trading with the Bulls I would want Hinrich. For that to happen Ridnour would have to be traded. The fact that Ridnour isn't being mentioned in trade discussions also bothers me. We are tailor making an offensive scheme around Ridnour when its obvious that this running game does not put us in the best position to win. Ridnour isn't an effective half court guard nor does he defend or rebound well, two things that we as a team also struggle with. If we can bring in a high quality starting point guard with some prospects and have to lose Ridnour I wouldn't be opposed to it. Ridnour should not be treated like a franchise level player. If we could do a multiple team trade that involved Ray, Luke, and one of our post guys that brought in Kirk Hinrich and Larry Hughes, with some picks than I'd be all for it--but I don't think that our players (with the exception of Shard and Swift) have that much market value right now.
I'd love to see Ray and Luke packaged for Hinrich and Hughes. I think that would give us the best defensive backcourt in the league. As it is we're probably the worst.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray Allen and Flip Murray for Tim Thomas, Chris Duhon and Ben Gordon. Reasons for: Chicago have reportedly admired Ray for a while now, and he'll never be more available than he is now. Gordon is still undersized too, so Ray gives them a legit shooting guard in the backcourt and allows them to slide Hinrich back to the point. Flip takes Gordon's role as scorer/enery guy off the bench. Duhon also gives us exactly what we want - a tough back-up point who can play D and has a bit of size. Reasons against: Do the Bulls want to trade a young up and coming star in Gordon for Ray? Do they want to slide Hinrich back to the point, and do they want to trade Duhon who has been outstanding since they matched Toronto's contract to him in the summer. Also, it would be a stretch for the Sonics to play Gordon and Ridnour in the same backcourt, given both are small and can't stop John Crotty. </div> Oh hell no. Since Gordon has been starting he has starred for the Bulls as a Shooting Gaurd, Hinrich is back at the point and Duhon has been backing up. I dont think you will find the Bulls trading anyone this current season.
Ah, the beauty of making up trades. You always get opposition fans coming in and saying why it wouldn't happen.
