<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">That's too predictable for the Warriors. They do that anyways. I think the Warriors should start to pass more, make layups and play defense, that'd totally catch the Kings off guard. They'd be like, "They can do that???" It's obvious the Warriors aren't running plays. It's a very static, non passing, non moving offense.</div> If that happens, then I'd be like "They can do that???"
I don't blame Mullin too much. Well maybe I could, I was one of his biggest critics I think earlier in his time in the Warriors management. Besides Dunleavy and Foyle, I think the contracts that these players have aren't too bad. Well I guess mostly talking about Jason Richardson and Troy Murphy. I think those two contracts are quite average, not so bad, especially compared to other similar player contracts, such as Redd getting $12 million this year. In terms of making moves, it has been tough for Mullin. At the end of last season things looked so promising, and if he were to make a move last offseason that was extreme, he would have been looked at in bad humor. Now it is difficult to make a move because Murphy, Jason, and Dunleavy have BYC contracts, Fisher and Foyle's aren't attractive, and the rest are pretty good value players and young unproven players off the bench. Who especially this year, haven't been given a good look at. I think most of the problem is the coaching. The coaching has put a bad mentallity in this team, a weak mentality. They get pushed around and back down too easily and they don't look to get the ball inside at all. A lot of players also don't even have faith in a lot of other players, so it seems, which I think reflects the faith Mike Montgomery has in these other players as well. And yeah, this game is getting pretty bad. It's been a pretty quick game at least, so it seems, heh.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">If that happens, then I'd be like "They can do that???"</div> LOL. Yeah, I dunno about this team and their roles. It's more of a collection than a team. We got a rookie-like backup center with the worst hands in the league (worse than Kwame or Dampier) as starter, a rebounding tough Forward that plays the softest interior defense on this team, a Duke backup player that can never play consistent or do anything well to stand out on his own, a shooting guard that can't make free throws or handle the ball, a french shooting guard that plays small forward that has terrific tools but no I.Q., and.... a franchise point guard and a backup point guard that shoots sub 40% and play more like shooting guards than guys to run offense through... Right now Biedrins is at least playing well and so is Ike if you don't count his offensive struggles. That's at least good to see. We need more true position players in the worst way. I don't think any of the guys we have play true positions right now. Same with Jamison and Arenas and we have to play in the Western conference where everybody gets stronger and whoops on our ass.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think most of the problem is the coaching. The coaching has put a bad mentallity in this team, a weak mentality. They get pushed around and back down too easily and they don't look to get the ball inside at all. A lot of players also don't even have faith in a lot of other players, so it seems, which I think reflects the faith Mike Montgomery has in these other players as well. And yeah, this game is getting pretty bad. It's been a pretty quick game at least, so it seems, heh.</div> I disagree if we're trying to look inside when we have Foyle/Murphy inside. Those guys suck inside. Our poor inside play is a result of who we have on our roster and who is locked up under contracts. Whoever is signed long term, the GM expects the coach to play them. If we're playing a Princeton offense, the team's bigs need to find the guards on offense and the guards need to cut and be more active. The bigs also need to set screens which the Warriors don't set very well. I agree if Monty is not playing Ike/Biedrins and they're readier than most think. Biedrins has been pretty weak against most center matchups, but I think he'd be perfect for pounding the ball inside against forwards. He's super athletic so he should be able to do it. I just like Ike because he knows his role and he does everything a true position power forward is supposed to do. He combines the skills of a small forward with the skills of a center.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't blame Mullin too much. Well maybe I could, I was one of his biggest critics I think earlier in his time in the Warriors management. Besides Dunleavy and Foyle, I think the contracts that these players have aren't too bad. Well I guess mostly talking about Jason Richardson and Troy Murphy. I think those two contracts are quite average, not so bad, especially compared to other similar player contracts, such as Redd getting $12 million this year. In terms of making moves, it has been tough for Mullin. At the end of last season things looked so promising, and if he were to make a move last offseason that was extreme, he would have been looked at in bad humor. Now it is difficult to make a move because Murphy, Jason, and Dunleavy have BYC contracts, Fisher and Foyle's aren't attractive, and the rest are pretty good value players and young unproven players off the bench. Who especially this year, haven't been given a good look at. I think most of the problem is the coaching. The coaching has put a bad mentallity in this team, a weak mentality. They get pushed around and back down too easily and they don't look to get the ball inside at all. A lot of players also don't even have faith in a lot of other players, so it seems, which I think reflects the faith Mike Montgomery has in these other players as well. And yeah, this game is getting pretty bad. It's been a pretty quick game at least, so it seems, heh.</div> If I have to blame Mullin this season, it's not getting anything done during the summer. He was working on the assumpiton this team would be a playoff team. The Suns WERE a playoff team, yet they made a lot of changes and didn't sign Johnson for big bucks. Second, Mullin tied his own hands when he gave Dun his extension when he didn't have to .
Yeah, also the team would be sharing the ball more and running plays if the starting 5 was a quality starting 5 with a decent center. If Foyle is going to fumble the ball and Dunleavy is going to miss open J's when that's his role on the team, I ain't passing the damn ball. I'll take my chances with Jrich or Murphy and whatever their flaws on defense are. That's what this team is like. There's no trust and hence there's no chemistry. We've got no inside/outside game so we go all outside and we can't get high % shots or good passes because those passes don't get caught or converted into points. Oh yeah and Murphy still sucks on D, healthy ankle or not. Sorry if I'm hatin' but man it's the truth. He's just not very tough in that area.
I don't really blame Mullin for not doing anything to change the team. What if he made a change and we are back where we are now? Everyone would be saying that he shouldnt have split up the team after what they did down the stretch of last season. The Dunleavy signing, however, was terrible.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, also the team would be sharing the ball more and running plays if the starting 5 was a quality starting 5 with a decent center. If Foyle is going to fumble the ball and Dunleavy is going to miss open J's when that's his role on the team, I ain't passing the damn ball. I'll take my chances with Jrich or Murphy and whatever their flaws on defense are. That's what this team is like. There's no trust and hence there's no chemistry. We've got no inside/outside game so we go all outside and we can't get high % shots or good passes because those passes don't get caught or converted into points. Oh yeah and Murphy still sucks on D, healthy ankle or not. Sorry if I'm hatin' but man it's the truth. He's just not very tough in that area.</div> That's a pretty good analysis of Baronball .
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">That's a pretty good analysis of Baronball .</div> I don't like the fact Baron Davis closes up like that, but man he's got a good reason to. Everything about the Warriors future success starts with the middle. When Dampier was playing really well and when we had some pure point guard action, some decent defense at PF, we looked a lot better than we did now defensively. The center has to the most important position in basketball next to point guard because he plays nearest to the basket and is the biggest player on the floor doing everything from getting boards, blocking shots, passing the ball from the outside in or the inside out, and he's getting second chance points and extra posessions. There are so few of them good enough to be starter, though. I wish we have that soon because there's just no presence on offense or defense anymore or any supporting play to feed off that presence. But anyway great game for Biedrins tonight. Biedrins looks promising but he's just so skinny for the position. Ike doesn't go over too well. He's not Ben Wallace. But Ike looks great as that focal point to run offense through or with. Even if plays aren't going Ike's way he's not going to stand still or do nothing like other players on this roster do. Also, I don't think Mullin did a good job with bargaining with Foyle's agent at all. Maybe it was poor leverage or maybe he's just not very saavy when it comes to financials.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">The Dunleavy signing, however, was terrible.</div> The Fisher and Foyle signings were horrible. Foyle is awful, aw geez I wanna barf every time his greasy paws come anywhere near the basketball. Homey has worse hands than a worm. Damn I think he sure is a swell guy but holy $h!t man I just feel bad for the guy because he is probably one of the worst players in the NBA and it must be embarrassing to get paid so much to be so terrible -- well, I guess not, he makes more in a year than I'll make in a lifetime. Leave it to the nicest guy in the NBA to get it up in a contract year. I'll be damned if Folye didn't get in shape and start hustling at the end of his contract year. Now he's worse than dead weight. I could dunk on Foyle, and I can't even dunk.
Foyle, Dunleavy has to be the worst signings. Then Fisher. or Maybe Dunleavy since he has some upside and youth to come out from nowhere but Foyle and Fish are pretty much what they're going to be years from now... Fisher has had 8 years in the league for everyone to see what kind of player he is... but he's just overpaid for a shooting guard acting as starting point guard or backup point guard. I mean he's okay, sometimes he's overpaid and hurts the team, other time he does his job and passes the ball while playing defense. I really do hate the fact we play small in 4th quarter matchups because he's "clutch". I dunno... but the Foyle-Fish-Dun team seems to be just role players and overpaid ones at that. Same with Murphy if you count how limited his offensive game is and the fact he doesn't bring much defensively to the team or any intangibles. Okay, maybe I'm crapping on a lot of players, but I just think something isn't fitting right and I'm questioning my faith in this team and development process. This team hasn't changed all that much in the last few seasons (the core of it at least), but its still developing. Is it a collection of players or is this a team of players? I mean Dunleavy we've seen quite a few years of and we still don't know what he does well. He's probably the third in line after the whole get rid of Foyle/Fish type topics. Nobody likes Foyle because well he just doesn't have the talent to meet our expectations. Also, how does everyone feel about throwing in rookies into the game to get some burn? Is a rookie's psyche that delicate? Is the pressure so great that coches would rather not put them in there to set them up to fail, but to introduce them when they're ready and can compete? I've learned some coaches do this and this I can reason with. But I do not agree with. Learn from your mistakes, rookies! Earn those touches, get plays written up for you, and get those bogus ref whistles out of the way before next season!
Glad I was in class for this game. Just got back and checked the score. Jeez, they got beat badly. I think most of us knew that this group of players didn't really fit, starting with the fisher signing and so on. I was certainly perplexed by what Mullin was doing, by firing musselman and then signing both fisher and foyle to long term contracts like that. Made me skeptical. But then they got Baron and started winning and I thought oh well, not my money, as long they win, then I guess mullin is doing a great job. It tricked me, gave me false hope, made me forget my skeptism. Kind of came back when Mullin signed dunleavy to that huge contract. Had he waited, Dunleavy would be playing hard to earn his contract extension. What ever though. This team is pretty doomed capwise now. Depressing really.
It's only one game and maybe the Warriors were tired, but in terms of faith of this overall group, they aren't a playoff team until they get a center and make some other changes. Also guards can't hit 60% from the foul line. That's horrible. Maybe there's a better coach for this team, but I think this has everything to do with not having the talent to co-exist together and hit shots. Even a good game for us is when we play with our defense because often times we don't score the ball at above 43%. When we stop playing defense we're usually toast because we can't rebound our misses or prevent teams from second chance points and we give up points at 50% of all the attempts against us because we're slow in transition.
Had Mullin waited, Dunleavy would be playing hard to earn even a mid-level salary. He'd probably demand $4-5 mil in the off-season, not $8-9. Moreover, Mullin would be able to offer Pietrus anything he wanted, whatever he deserved. The problem was that Mike made a little bit of noise, and Mullin gave in. Remember when JRich and Troy were coming up, they started talking stuff in the media about how it would be distracting playing their final year not knowing if they would get their money, how it would mess with the chemistry of the team, and whatnot, and Mullin cashed in with two of the longest, heftiest deals in the league. Then Dunleavy pulls a bit of that talk in the media. Mullin didn't even need to pay him, that's the lame-ass thing. Oh, and then Pietrus started talking a bit this year. Do you remember? "Oh, I want to be paid like a stater. i want this team to win. I want to be a Warrior for a long time." Funny (or sad) thing is, Pietrus' agent forgot to tell him Mullin doesn't have any $ left. But, oh well. The Warriors can still do something. Magloire is on the block. So is Pryzbilla. Hey, how about Michael Doleac. Get me somebody, I don't care if it's "Big-Country" Bryant Reeves or Oliver Miller.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">welp...i hate to be a downer but it looks like they are back to ground zero</div> Very disappointing loss. The W's have absolutely nothing going right now. Talk about leaving a bad taste in the mouth...
Mmm... Today was one of the few days that I missed Warriors game, and boy, did I pick the right time to do so... -.- Anyway, if the blame must go, I throw the blame to Mullin. Before ripping Mullin, let's go over good things he has done. `Davis trade was a sheer brilliant move, which required a lot of gut to do so, because of his bagagges. Sure, he is a handful to control, but there is no question that he is a difference maker, who has a potential to be the best PG in the league. `Mullin is also a good at drafting with eyes for foreign players as well. So far, Mullin drafted Biedrins, Diogu, Ellis and Taft, and all of them seem to have a brilliant future. `Mullin gained the most trust from Cohan, and financial support he received is beyond any Twerdzik, PJ or Saint imagined. That has been said... 1. Dunleavy deal: It started with Mullin trading Jamison for Dunleavy. Then, there is a confliction with Muss for not playing Dunleavy more, which became one of the big reason why Muss was fired. Then, Mullin gave Dunleavy an extension last offseason, which is wrong for so many reasons `Overpaid: Dunleavy's market value was 6 mils, and while it would be unknown how Dunleavy would perform in 05-06 season, it would be safe to say that he would not raise his market value more than 9 mils per year. `Premature: There is simply no reason to sign Dunleavy after 3 years. Not only 3rd year extension belongs to franchise players, we could easily match whatever potential contract Dunleavy might have gotten, if we really want to keep him. To make things worse, other GMs use this 4th year restriction to lower the value of extension, because many times, teams shy away from offering an contract to restricted FAs or simply give ridiculous contract so that the team will not think about matching it (J. Johnson). Mullin was so afraid of losing Dunleavy, he prematurely signed Dunelavy from any kind of potential danger of losing him. `Current financial situation: Basically, Dunleavy siginging would cause the end of chance to mount any significant contract in our current structure. In other word, unless we dump our existing contract or draft, upgrade via FA or spending exception would be extremely hard to impossible. But that didn't stop Mullin from creating 'stable' roster... `Pietrus: At the end of last year, there was no clear winner between Dunleavy and Pietrus. And, by giving them a year to compete, we would have a better chance to know who's better for the club. Mullin didn't even want to see the result and signed Dunleavy, and now Pietrus, who is most likely to be shipped between now to next year despite whatever he does, is starting and Dunleavy is benched even with his brand new contract, which he will collect for next 6 years. `Potential deal: If Dunleavy didn't sign that extension, we might actually have Artest by now, since the main reason Indiana didn't bite on Dunleavy is because of his extension. `NBA 101: Last time I check, most of NBA players have their best season at their contract year. So, why didn't Mullin utilize that year? Clearly, Mullin was in love with Dunleavy ever since he flew to convince Dunleavy to stay in the draft, and he fulfilled his dream by giving his golden boy a big contract. And less than a year later, Dunleavy's name is in trading rumor, and he lost his starting job by SG. 2. Choosing Foyle over Dampier or Thomas and Mohammad. If anybody remembers last few years, center position was actually a strength for this club and we were always top of the rebounding catagory in NBA. Then, Dampier opted out from the contract, which made Mullin very angry, and Foyle's contract ran out as well. Mullin had 4 choices. 1. Keep Dampier and let Foyle go. 2. Keep Foyle and let Dampier go. 3. Trade Dampier for Thomas and Nazr and let Foyle go 4. Let both go and look for center in FA. Dampier's action indeed angered a lot of people including Mullin. However, if you are a GM, you really need to control your anger for the good of team. Instead, Mullin never look to resign Dampier, who had career year. To make things worse, teams were jumping on Foyle by using MLE. Mullin basically panicked and decided to overpay Foyle, who had career low year due to injury, by going above MLE, 8 mils for 5 years. And, right now, we are at the bottom of rebounding, and inside defense/offense. To make things worse, Dampier is only getting 2 more mils per year than Foyle, and we are looking for a strong center, who can post up, grab rebounds, block shots, and be a force in the middle, which basically describes Dampier. If Mullin chose 2 or 3, we wouldn't be in our current situation, where other big men are constantly raping our front court. 3. Salary management: It's not much of how Mullin overpaid, but it's the matter of how Mullin looked ahead of our financial situation. You can argue that either Murphy or Fisher are not overpaid and so on. But the biggest problem is that none of our 6 big contracts (Davis, Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle, and Fisher) expire in next 3 years, and those 6 deals alone are enough to push our club to luxury tax territory. And, it's really hard to dump bad contract to another club, not to mention costly. Sure, we can use credit card as much as our credit limit in overnight, but there is a reason why we do not do so. Apparently, Mullin didn't exactly grab that concept and went from zero commitment to 60 mils per year salary structure in one year by getting Davis, signing Fisher, and resigning Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle for a long term. 4. Hiring Monty: In order for a coach to survive in NBA and control the team, you need at least one of two; 1. You need a successful experience in NBA. 2. You need to show that your way is actually successful. If you don't have either, it would be extremely hard to control NBA players, because you really have nothing to show for, and players won't just bow down and listen just because you are a coach. Obviously, Monty didn't have 1. And, while some blame goes to Monty for not adjusting his tactic to whatever players he has, Mullin didn't make the situation easier by providing Monty his type of players. Therefore, Monty's first half year was brutal to say the least, and Muss and his previous overachving two seasons never helped his situation. To make things worse, Davis came and turned the season around, therefore, instead of Monty getting a credit, Davis received the all credit for turning the season around. And, when this team is utterly falling short of what fans expected, it's inevitable that the blame goes to Monty. There is no question that Monty is a brilliant coach in college, but he really never was in a position to succeed, and if we fail to make PO this year, I would seriously doubt that Monty will keep his job next year. Really, I really thought we would have enjoyed at least couple good seasons before our salary structure becomes really ugly. But, it seems like the dark age came earlier than I expected. Hopefully, Mullin takes this as a warning sign and instead of staying put, he should be active at trading market and turn the bad contracts to gold, as daunting as it may sound. After all, that may be the only way to save his job...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting nfmos:</div><div class="quote_post">Um, any way we can get Musselman back to be GM and Head Coach?? </div> Lol, after that bad break up? It would be easier for Jackson and Kobe to reunite... wait...
