Derek Fisher is Not a "Smart" or "Savvy" Veteran

Derek Fisher is Not a "Smart" or "Savvy" Veteran

It just kind of humors me that I read posts (no offense to the posters) that "Oh, I know Baron is out but I love Fisher's decision making in the 4th quarter" or "Oh, we need a veteran presence like Fisher in the 4th quarter to help the young guys stay confident."

I hear those arguements, and I just need to ask: WTF?

He may be a "veteran," but so is Adonal Foyle. Derek Fisher is a terrible decision maker:

1) Fisher runs one of the most hideous, atrocious fast breaks in the history of basketball. I've said this time and time again -- are you starting to see it yet? He runs ahead of his wings, refuses to wait for his wings to fill the lanes, does not spread the defense, does not make the defender honor the classic jump-stop at mid-key, refuses to pass to the open trailer, and instead takes it right into the heart of the defense, effectively eliminating all other threats and allowing 1 defender to guard 3 people as Fisher bull-dogs his way into a fade-away layup.

2.) Fisher is a goddam ball-hog. Ever heard of "'telegraphing" a pass? Fisher telegraphs his shots. He gets the ball, has a brain fart and forgets the play, and then looks at the hoop and it's over: he proceeds (by this time we know he's already decided to shoot) to do like 4 cross-over dribbles, 2 behind-the-back dribbles, and a fade-away jumper for a brick. The problem is he'll do it on 3 consecutive trips down court, inlucing a few "self-called" plays where he'll dribble the ball up court and just jack one without even stopping to acknowlege that he's on a team with 5 guys on the floor.

3.)Fisher is not a good facilitator of the offense. He takes way too long to bring it up court, dribbles way too much, and then doesn't give it up quickly. Hey, I saw the 9 assists tonight, and a few were beauties. I'm not saying Fish is a horrible player, I'm saying he's not a "smart veteran" presence. He's not. He does not recognize when a player is hot -- Biedrins will have 3 dunks in a row, and instead of looking for him next time down, Fish will spend the next 3 possessions trying to take it to the rack and trying to score points with his tired, weak-ass moves.

4.) Fisher is a sub-par defender. You've heard it before: He's too slow. He can't keep up with the majority of the true point guards in the league. He also picks up way too many reaching fouls. How about that beauty on Kobe tonight: 2 mins left, they get the shot clock down to 4, have Kobe right where they want him with JRich pressuring out around the 3-Line, and then Fish runs over and starts slapping Kobe on the fore-arm, drawing the obvious foul with 2 seconds on the shot clock. The worst Kobe could have done was jacked an off-balance 3, instead two game-sealing freethrows.


Derek Fisher is a good catch-and-shoot guard. He is not a good playmaker or floor-general. his problem is he won't accept that; the majority of his shots are not catch-and-shoot; when they are, I love it, but the majority of his shots are weak one-on-one moves and off-balanc prayers that have nothing to do with team basketball. Don't tell me he won a ring with the Lakers; he sat out a the 3 line and benefited from Shaq's triple-teams. Any guard in the league could have won that ring with Shaq.

I defy you: Please respond here and tell me that Fish is a good decision-maker in the 4th quarter.

 

I agree also. Loved that reach in foul he commited on Bryant with 2 seconds left, trapped behind the threepoint line...

But in his defense at least you know that he wants to win badly. Some of the guys on this team, I really don't know if I can say that about them.

 

remember the foul he gave against utah with 5 sec on the shot clock in the 4th?? Same with tonight? Agreed. He's not as smart as people give him credit for!

 

While I crap on Fisher most of the time for not being a good point guard, you have to accept what he is. A combo guard who plays mostly like a shooting guard that doesn't value posessions. The problem is does he know what he is doing or do his teammates know what he is doing? I feel like the 4 or 5 guys on the floor do not know what the other will do and that's rough when the coaches want all these guys to buy into the game plan. You need a point guard that's going to be a quarterback and a team leader to direct offense. You need guys that know the plays, where they are supposed to be when the ballhandler or passer makes his move.

It's like I've been saying. Is there a reliable 8 or 9 man rotation out there for us that can get it done both offensively/defensively and make each other better? I see a lot of holes both offensively and defensively in some of these players which make it hard to operate effectively. Good teams don't have to worry about major liabilities, lack of roles, not getting the ball when they move or guys coming up short every time they get passed the ball. We need an efficient field goal % game and for once, we need to have defenders that can stay in front of their assignment. We're giving up too much ground on defense and we're not being patient or disciplined enough to run the plays well.

I know we want to dwell on game moments where we could have won, but it doesn't matter. We don't have the concept of a 5 man motion offense or stack plays because it relies on good screen setting, proper floor balance, quick and precise cuts, footwork on offense in the pivot, and having 8-9 good players that are reliable when you want them.

 

i agree!!!! there is no team chemistry at all when fisher tries to run the team. He reaches in a lot and he always flops. You ever see him try to avoid a screen? i never see it, i always seem him running into the screens and tries to flop his way. That or just he gets beat and waves his arms in the air trying to get a call his way while his man is just left wide wide WIDE open

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree!!!! there is no team chemistry at all when fisher tries to run the team. He reaches in a lot and he always flops. You ever see him try to avoid a screen? i never see it, i always seem him running into the screens and tries to flop his way. That or just he gets beat and waves his arms in the air trying to get a call his way while his man is just left wide wide WIDE open</div>


I'll take it a step further... There's no team chemistry when Fish is on the floor. He dribbles the ball too much and shoots too much. put him on the court together with Pietrus (who pretty much floats to the corner every time) and Murphy who stands at the top the whole time and it's a recipe for losses.

 

don't forget he is still the shooter of the clutchest shot in the history of the league.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">don't forget he is still the shooter of the clutchest shot in the history of the league.</div>

LOL. Sarcasm?

Else I suppose Robert "Big Shot Rob" Horry is chopped liver.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I defy you: Please respond here and tell me that Fish is a good decision-maker in the 4th quarter.</div>

I agree with you on Fish.

Now, at some point one has to start thinking WHO got Fish and gave him his long and expensive contract (when no one else was bidding that high).

That said, I can accept mistakes by Chris Mullin. What I can't accept is not recognizing he made a mistake.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree!!!! there is no team chemistry at all when fisher tries to run the team. He reaches in a lot and he always flops. You ever see him try to avoid a screen? i never see it, i always seem him running into the screens and tries to flop his way. That or just he gets beat and waves his arms in the air trying to get a call his way while his man is just left wide wide WIDE open</div>

Agreed, avoiding the screens is the best thing you can do. If a player is screening down as a part of a set offense, go to the key, and they will either:

(A. Try to follow you and get called for a moving screen, or:

(B. Won't follow you and you clog up the lane for their rolls of the pick.

It's that simple.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you on Fish.

Now, at some point one has to start thinking WHO got Fish and gave him his long and expensive contract (when no one else was bidding that high).

That said, I can accept mistakes by Chris Mullin. What I can't accept is not recognizing he made a mistake.</div>


yeah I like what you're saying there. Look at Dumars, he admitted the mistake with Darko and he was able to trade him for capspace to sign his other guys. If he had waited one more year he wouldn't have gotten that chance. Mullin just doesn't understand the business side of being a GM. Even Monty has an outrageous contract.

 

As harsh as my post is, would you believe I actually can sort of swallow the Fisher deal? I know, it sounds crazy. I would love to see Fisher get traded, but I can more-or-less understand the reasoning with MUllin's signing of Fish. At the time, it was a deal locking up a proven veteran to a long term, mid-level to upper-mid-level $ contract to mentor, to stretch the D with his catch-n-shoot threes, and to be a good back-up off the bench. The problem is, Fish is not filling the role he was assigned to. He is taking way too many of the shots. He's elbowing his way and shouldering his way and forcing his way into the offense, a place where he doesn't belong. Sit there, catch the kick-out, and shoot it. Otherwise, for goodnes sakes Fish, stay out of the f'ing way dude. And oh, please don't jack up 17 shots in a ball game. That's the problem. Instead of filling that "veteran," level-headed back-up role, he's suddenly convinced himself that he's Michael Jordan, and it's ugly.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">As harsh as my post is, would you believe I actually can sort of swallow the Fisher deal? I know, it sounds crazy. I would love to see Fisher get traded, but I can more-or-less understand the reasoning with MUllin's signing of Fish. At the time, it was a deal locking up a proven veteran to a long term, mid-level to upper-mid-level $ contract to mentor, to stretch the D with his catch-n-shoot threes, and to be a good back-up off the bench. The problem is, Fish is not filling the role he was assigned to. He is taking way too many of the shots. He's elbowing his way and shouldering his way and forcing his way into the offense, a place where he doesn't belong. Sit there, catch the kick-out, and shoot it. Otherwise, for goodnes sakes Fish, stay out of the f'ing way dude. And oh, please don't jack up 17 shots in a ball game. That's the problem. Instead of filling that "veteran," level-headed back-up role, he's suddenly convinced himself that he's Michael Jordan, and it's ugly.</div>
I can't believe I thought Fish would be an okay replacement for NVE. Fish can pass very well, but he's not a good playmaker. He's got very limited court vision and he's not creative enough to see the play happening before it happens so it's why he telegraphs passes. NVE was at least a washed up all-star guard that knew how to get the passes inside off dribble penetration and he could run the fastbreak properly. NVE was just world's apart from Fish. Same with Claxton even though he was pretty much going to not pass once he drove it. The point is he drove and that caused less problems when you consider the missed long jumper is a lot more momentum killing than a guy who could attack the zone but miss the layup or fail to sneak the ball inside to his teammate rolling to the hoop next to him. We can get the long jumper anytime we want, but it's another thing to get a guy who can pressure the ballhandler and really push the ball at tremendous speeds. I miss that part of our game.

Also yeah we need a better small forward tandem or a true shooting guard plus an interim center. Foyle is so bad it makes Biedrins look that good. Don't get me wrong, I think Biedrins is good for his age, but there's a few things missing that a solid center would do. This is why it puts a lot of pressure on Biedrins to develop physically much quicker and get a little more polished inside game going. Then Dunleavy... he makes Pietrus look great off the bench and I don't think Pietrus will work for very long once nba starters figure him out. Pietrus needs to develop more fundamentals. What happened to his crossover and the give and go? I think he just doesn't know plays and that screws up the motion offense even worse than the point guard not calling a play for him.

 

Oh wow! how I would love to have Speedy Claxton instead of Fish. Just imagining Speedy backing up Baron makes my eyes light up -- that would have been great.

As far as Pietrus, I agree -- dude is (lemme paraphrase the great Jim "Big-Fro" Barnett here) a thoroughbread horse, he's a friggin "gazelle," but man the guy has no control. He's a charge waiting to happen. Still, he's such a freak athlete he makes up for it most of the time. I just wonder how long his "camp-in-the-corner" mentality will keep the defense guessing. He's taking himself out of the limelight by refusing to keep running on offense, setting picks, curling around picks even if it's not a play for him, even if there's no real screen there!

A guy like Pietrus, who can soar from the free throw line and throw gym-rockin jams on Ben Wallace's forehead... WTF is he doing squatting on the three-point line. It's a waste of his un-paralleled athleticism, IMO.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh wow! how I would love to have Speedy Claxton instead of Fish. Just imagining Speedy backing up Baron makes my eyes light up -- that would have been great.

As far as Pietrus, I agree -- dude is (lemme paraphrase the great Jim "Big-Fro" Barnett here) a thoroughbread horse, he's a friggin "gazelle," but man the guy has no control. He's a charge waiting to happen. Still, he's such a freak athlete he makes up for it most of the time. I just wonder how long his "camp-in-the-corner" mentality will keep the defense guessing. He's taking himself out of the limelight by refusing to keep running on offense, setting picks, curling around picks even if it's not a play for him, even if there's no real screen there!

A guy like Pietrus, who can soar from the free throw line and throw gym-rockin jams on Ben Wallace's forehead... WTF is he doing squatting on the three-point line. It's a waste of his un-paralleled athleticism, IMO.</div>

We need someone to teach him and make him play the way he should, you know... like a coach or something.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">We need someone to teach him and make him play the way he should, you know... like a coach or something.</div>
Old dogs can't learn new tricks. Guys used to playing a certain way over the years never change their style that much. Because for them it works. For us it might not.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Old dogs can't learn new tricks. Guys used to playing a certain way over the years never change their style that much. Because for them it works. For us it might not.</div>

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...ps-series_x.htm

Billups was the third player selected in the 1997 draft. He has bounced around the league during his eight-year career, having been with five teams before signing with the Pistons as a free agent three years ago. He gives coach Larry Brown much of the credit for the way his game has flourished. Billups came into the league with a scorer's mentality. Under Brown's tutelage, he plays more of a traditional point guard's game, looking to get his teammates involved first and then looking for his shot.

"I've learned so much from him about this game, about my game," Billups says. "It's priceless, really."

Brown has a reputation for being tough on point guards, having played that position. When he talks about Billups' development, there's pride in his voice. "He's done a remarkable job under difficult circumstances dealing with me," Brown says. "Anybody that's played for me (knows) I've put a lot of responsibility on the point guard. He's sacrificed as much as anybody I've ever coached for the benefit of the team."

A coach can definately make a change.

 

At this point, I want to see a new WINNING coach trying to make our players better, but don't want to see Fish.

Bye Fish. Thanks for the hot shooting and your contributions to winning games, but you're better off with a team that is in the playoffs NOW. Not some team that is STILL TRYING to make the playoffs next year. It's just too frustrating.

Mullin has to realize that we have other fish to fry (sorry bad pun ). In other words, we've got other problem areas to work on and don't have the time to make Fish a better fit for our team. Mullin has to evaluate his personnel and make adjustments accordingly, i.e. improve chemistry within our team and get talented players that complement each other.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...ps-series_x.htm

Billups was the third player selected in the 1997 draft. He has bounced around the league during his eight-year career, having been with five teams before signing with the Pistons as a free agent three years ago. He gives coach Larry Brown much of the credit for the way his game has flourished. Billups came into the league with a scorer's mentality. Under Brown's tutelage, he plays more of a traditional point guard's game, looking to get his teammates involved first and then looking for his shot.

"I've learned so much from him about this game, about my game," Billups says. "It's priceless, really."

Brown has a reputation for being tough on point guards, having played that position. When he talks about Billups' development, there's pride in his voice. "He's done a remarkable job under difficult circumstances dealing with me," Brown says. "Anybody that's played for me (knows) I've put a lot of responsibility on the point guard. He's sacrificed as much as anybody I've ever coached for the benefit of the team."

A coach can definately make a change.</div>
Way different context.

We're talking the difference between a late first round pick compared to 3rd overall pick Chauncey Billups. What part of Fisher's game is there any potential left? Granted he's having a good statistical season, he's still not playing anywhere near like Chauncey Billups does as point guard. Besides look at who the Pistons have in their starting five. All solid defenders that have played together for a while, that makes the difference the most. The only new addition was Sheed and they've always had guys like Rip Hamilton (since 02 I think) who won the NCAA in 99 and was MVP and Ben Wallace who's an allstar F/C and defensive player of the year. The Warriors could get the most out of their guards like Fisher if we just had some legit inside guys. But I don't think Fisher could get much better. No upside.