Derek Fisher is Not a "Smart" or "Savvy" Veteran

I agree also, Fisher can't lead a team, he doesn't have that type of abillity. He just follows and he is successful at that when he was in LA. Best wishes to D-Fish

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post"> But I don't think Fisher could get much better. No upside.</div>

Fish could be the next Jordan

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Way different context.

We're talking the difference between a late first round pick compared to 3rd overall pick Chauncey Billups. What part of Fisher's game is there any potential left? Granted he's having a good statistical season, he's still not playing anywhere near like Chauncey Billups does as point guard. Besides look at who the Pistons have in their starting five. All solid defenders that have played together for a while, that makes the difference the most. The only new addition was Sheed and they've always had guys like Rip Hamilton (since 02 I think) who won the NCAA in 99 and was MVP and Ben Wallace who's an allstar F/C and defensive player of the year. The Warriors could get the most out of their guards like Fisher if we just had some legit inside guys. But I don't think Fisher could get much better. No upside.</div>

Oh, I thought we were talking about Pietrus for a moment since he was mentioned, he's still a youngin that needs a teacher. I agree that Fisher won't change.

 

Yeah -- Pietus can definately grow and mature, but let me shape this thought:

-- Monta Ellis, in his 15 or so meaningful appearances this rookie year, has already shown, IMO, more understanding of the offense, court awareness, and decision making, than Pietrus has ever shown in his few years in the league.

Athletes are a dime a dozen. And while Pietrus is a rare, uncanny uber-athlete, that's still not enough. It's romantic to think that we can take this raw, primal athleticism that is Pietrus, place him under the tutilage of a few terrific coaches, and "mold," "tutor," and "cultivate" him into a premier basketball player. I hope that's the case with MP. But Monta hasn't needed much "teaching" thus far. Why? Becuase he has an innate instinct for playing basketball.

Pietrus has a lot of potential, yes. He's young, yes. He shows flashes of greatness, yes. I hope he can grow and improve his game the way JRich has. But just keep this question in the back of your mind: How long are you willing to wait for Pietrus to show maturity, control, and patience? A year? 2 years? 5 years? At some point, eventually you must either see results or question whether it will ever happen. Just look at MDJ. His time is almost up.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">How long are you willing to wait for Pietrus to show maturity, control, and patience? A year? 2 years? 5 years? At some point, eventually you must either see results or question whether it will ever happen. Just look at MDJ. His time is almost up.</div>

I agree, but MDJ has gotten a way bigger opportunity than Pietrus. And failed miserably.

 

calbert cheany is a true vet not fish

 

Edit: Let me say that MDJ's time should almost be up, but technically it isn't since he will be safely getting paid double-digit millions for like the next 5 years

 

How good does Ridnour look about now? He went 10th and Pietrus 11th; ugh. I remember feeling so bad.

Billups is like the anomoly for a guy who bounced around and finally found himself. Most guys who are stars are stars with their first team then its just downhill from there.

Ellis does have more of a grasp of the game than Pietrus, how's that? I was very skeptical of touts for a HS player but Ellis is very impressive.

Fisher? I hate his dribbling, he's got "dribble diarrhea" (greg anthony on Francis). His numbers will look good but at the end, you see him dribbling down to about the 10-12 sec mark and you know he's (1) not giving it up; and (2) he's jacking up a jumper.

As for those high pick and rolls, why do the Warriors always go over the top even at 28 ft out? You would think that Fisher would know how to play that.

 

Honestly, I'd rather have Pietrus (even with his mental shortcomings) he's the Perfect 6th man. The guy brings defense and energy off the bench. He is a game changer in that role. Unfortunately the team lost it's direction. I think Monty needs to go back to basics. Bring back the starting lineup from the beginning of the season but start Biedrins in Foyle's place. Get back to energy and defense. This team scored a lot in transistion at the beginning of the season. I think that's where things have to get back to.

 

Monty has withdrawn into the comfort zone of a slow motion college style,leaning toward the "Desperate Underdog" variant. You see that when Coastal Carolina plays Duke in the first round of the NCAA. Be careful as hell and hope you hit 60% from the arc. When you have equal or better talent...it's a very stupid way to go.

The W's flashed potential a year ago,Baron HURRIED the ball upcourt...unlike our earlier PG's who'd let the D get set up. Monty eliminated that,and now it's jack-a-3,or take the suicide drive int the crowd.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">The W's flashed potential a year ago,Baron HURRIED the ball upcourt...unlike our earlier PG's who'd let the D get set up. Monty eliminated that,and now it's jack-a-3,or take the suicide drive int the crowd.</div>
Didn't they shoot a lot of threes last season too? Personally I couldn't watch any of the games last season, so I can't compare this season to the end of last season. I wonder how much differently they played?

To me, I'm getting to the point where I think that it's not about the style of play. I think it seems like players are questioning their roles and what they need to do to make the team better. And they are trying to change out of old habits and I think that's affecting individual play. They're not playing as themselves. A lot of doubt on this team at this point.

The other problem is that Dunleavy, Zarko, and Pietrus are not playing as well as they did at the end of last year. This is what started the losing and then it has just spiraled out of control because of all the changes that Monty is making, switching the starting lineup a million times. People unsure of their roles now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gohn:</div><div class="quote_post">Didn't they shoot a lot of threes last season too? Personally I couldn't watch any of the games last season, so I can't compare this season to the end of last season. I wonder how much differently they played?

To me, I'm getting to the point where I think that it's not about the style of play. I think it seems like players are questioning their roles and what they need to do to make the team better. And they are trying to change out of old habits and I think that's affecting individual play. They're not playing as themselves. A lot of doubt on this team at this point.

The other problem is that Dunleavy, Zarko, and Pietrus are not playing as well as they did at the end of last year. This is what started the losing and then it has just spiraled out of control because of all the changes that Monty is making, switching the starting lineup a million times. People unsure of their roles now.</div>

Actually, I think they need to make MORE changes to the starting line up. Like throw Foyle away forever on the end of the bench. I think they haven't made ENOUGH starting lineup changes or to the rotation. Biedrins should be starting, Monta should be the main back up PG (not Fisher), etc.

Gohn, if you have AIM, PM me and I'll show you a game from last year.

 

I don't like Fisher at all but we can clearly pin this dissapointing season on 2 people.

1. Foyle- He is paid to consistent as in terms of production and hasn't given us A DAMN THING. He's bad on defense and even worse on offense. If we had a guy who could get 8 pts 8 brds 3 blocks and box his man out and play mediocre interior Defense, we are a playoff team.

2. Monty-Our offense that just stands around, our guys that can't focus on the defensive end and his lack of balls to consistently bench people. He tried to turn this team into something it's not and that is an ACTUAL basketball team. We played gimmick ball last year, keep what your doing until you get the personel to compete. Total joke.

Most of all you could blame Mullin for giving both of these dummies long term contracts.

Fisher, Murph, Dunleavy all are playing like garbage but if those two brought something to the table, we wouldn't have had that losing streak turning everyone to crap. Remember Murphy played pretty well in the beginning of the year but he's not what we're looking for. Time to clean house.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Time to clean house.</div>

Agreed, I just wish Mullin did some early spring cleaning before the deadline.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">As harsh as my post is, would you believe I actually can sort of swallow the Fisher deal? I know, it sounds crazy. I would love to see Fisher get traded, but I can more-or-less understand the reasoning with MUllin's signing of Fish. At the time, it was a deal locking up a proven veteran to a long term, mid-level to upper-mid-level $ contract to mentor, to stretch the D with his catch-n-shoot threes, and to be a good back-up off the bench. The problem is, Fish is not filling the role he was assigned to. He is taking way too many of the shots. He's elbowing his way and shouldering his way and forcing his way into the offense, a place where he doesn't belong. Sit there, catch the kick-out, and shoot it. Otherwise, for goodnes sakes Fish, stay out of the f'ing way dude. And oh, please don't jack up 17 shots in a ball game. That's the problem. Instead of filling that "veteran," level-headed back-up role, he's suddenly convinced himself that he's Michael Jordan, and it's ugly.</div>
I agree with Alley oop's posts on Fish,and if I'd argue,it's that Fish is all that and MORE. His confidence means the buzzer beater is not a pressure thing for him,he expects to make it..like he expects to have made the other 8 contested 3's he tried and the several drives into a crowd of shotblockers. He probably thinks the surprise pass at Adonal's ankles is real Bob Cousy stuff. Yeah,Fish will hit that buzzer beater...after his dumb play blew a 10 point lead.
Fish DOES try. On the Knicks they'd be awed by the contrast,but he has no sense of perspective,of the odds. He thinks he's twice the player he is,and twice as lucky. Blind Melon Montgomery buys that "savvy" crap,compounds the disaster using Fish as a SG,so he's got a taller guy to shoot over....AND still feels entitled to dribble about while the Defenses pack it in.

 

Yep -- it is definately telling of Monty's tentative character as a coach, that he's leaned on Derek Fisher in the 4th quarter instead of benching that fool's a$$. Fish is probably Monty's last friend on the team.