I think Yao is on track to becoming the best center in the league. People seem to overlook, this is only his 4th season in the NBA. Yao is still only 25 years old, and has improved every season. A major difference this season, was Yao taking a break over the summer. He didn't play in all of the Asian tournaments like he normally does in the summer, so he's been able to handle a career high in MPG. Shaq is still the best center in the league, but Yao is closing the gap. Yao has quitely become a 20/10 player this year and leads all centers in PPG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Your right stats don't mean anything so let's look at records. Miami = 2nd in the east Houston= not in the playoffs right now Shaq makes more of an impact and Yao hasn't been able to carry a team like Shaq has.</div> Record is another stat, you know. And win-loss is misleading, because obviously a player cannot impact a team's chances of winning when he's not on the court. Instead, you should look at individual win-loss record, which awards a "win" whenever a player's team outscores the opponent while he's on the court, and gives a "loss" whenever the opponent outscores the player's team with him on the court. Going by this, Shaq has a 29-13 record (69.0%) and Yao has a 25-15 (62.5%) record. Not as big a difference now, is it? Plus, you have to factor in that Shaq has had Wade on the court with him in 82% of his minutes (972 out of 1188), while Yao has had McGrady on the court with him in only 59% of his minutes (784 out of 1319). Furthermore, McGrady has been far less effective than Wade this year due to back problems. Win/losses are incredibly overrated stat when evaluating the effectiveness of an individual player. You need to consider how his team did while he was on the court, and who was on the court with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Record is another stat, you know. And win-loss is misleading, because obviously a player cannot impact a team's chances of winning when he's not on the court. Instead, you should look at individual win-loss record, which awards a "win" whenever a player's team outscores the opponent while he's on the court, and gives a "loss" whenever the opponent outscores the player's team with him on the court. Going by this, Shaq has a 29-13 record (69.0%) and Yao has a 25-15 (62.5%) record. Not as big a difference now, is it? Plus, you have to factor in that Shaq has had Wade on the court with him in 82% of his minutes (972 out of 1188), while Yao has had McGrady on the court with him in only 59% of his minutes (784 out of 1319). Furthermore, McGrady has been far less effective than Wade this year due to back problems. Win/losses are incredibly overrated stat when evaluating the effectiveness of an individual player. You need to consider how his team did while he was on the court, and who was on the court with him.</div> Arent the Rockets like 20-9 with both T-mac and Yao Ming playing on the court?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YugoRocketsfan:</div><div class="quote_post">Arent the Rockets like 20-9 with both T-mac and Yao Ming playing on the court?</div> I'm not sure. You'd have to go through each game where they both played, and figure out if they outscored the opponent while they were both on the court. It would take some work to figure that out. I do know the point differential with both on the court: per 48 minutes it is +5.02. Not bad. But how about looking at point differential for Rockets with Yao but no McGrady playing, and similarly point differential for Miami with Shaq but no Wade? Then we can really compare who does a better job "carrying" their team when the star isn't in the game. <u>Rockets with Yao On the Court But No McGrady</u> minutes: 535 +/-: +40 +/- per 48min: +3.59 <u>Heat with Shaq On the Court But No Wade</u> minutes: 216 +/-: -33 +/- per 48min: -7.33 Hey, what do you know!? The Rockets actually have a better point differential with Yao and no McGrady than the Heat have with Shaq and no Wade. Quite interesting. Again, I'll reiterate: overall win/loss record is an overrated stat when evaluating an individual player.
thread turned into shaq vs yao, shaq is aging so im gonna have to say yea he is, and you said the reasons his stats are monsterous
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Your right stats don't mean anything so let's look at records.</div> Why do people always say this? Stats dont mean anything? Stats are what make up the game of basketball. Without stats there would be no basketball, there would be no means of scoring (points), getting the ball back (blocks, steals, rebounds) or helping out other players (assists). Stats play a bigger part than any other aspect of the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq is still the most dominant Center in the league and makes the game so much easier for all of his teammates. Shaq is a winner, pure and simple. You put him on Atlanta, and they actually have a good chance to make the playoffs. Yao is improving year after year, but he is not as dominant/good as Shaq, yet. Who knows, maybe next year, he'll be a 23/12 player, but even at 34, Shaq is still better.</div> The Rockets without Mcgrady are equal to Atlanta (or even worse), but Yao has carried us on his back even then. You can say Shaq is more dominant all you want, but the numbers tilt toward Yao in almost every statistic right now. So now what............
BTW, Yao has just barely crept ahead of Shaq in Player Efficiency Rating (PER) for the first time in his career (24.97 to 24.75) according to Advanced Stats at ESPN.com. It doesn't mean that Yao is all of a sudden the better player, but it indicates that the gap has at least closed considerably of late. Going by "individual numbers," they're pretty much in a dead heat at this point in the season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AirJordan:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq > Yao when Shaq is in the league Yao > Shaq when Shaq retires</div> That is exaclty how it will be unless Ben Wallace can get better in offense. His defense and reboudning is amazing. Yao isn't aggresive enough to be the best. He can push around anoybody. Right now Zydrudas Illgouskas is better than him. 1. Shaq 2. Illgouskas 3. Big Ben, Yao. They are on the same level right now. If only Ben could score he would dominate. When Shaq retires, next year or the next, I think it will be this. 1. Yao 2. Big Ben 3. Illgouskas
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">That is exaclty how it will be unless Ben Wallace can get better in offense. His defense and reboudning is amazing. Yao isn't aggresive enough to be the best. He can push around anoybody. Right now Zydrudas Illgouskas is better than him. 1. Shaq 2. Illgouskas 3. Big Ben, Yao. They are on the same level right now. If only Ben could score he would dominate. When Shaq retires, next year or the next, I think it will be this. 1. Yao 2. Big Ben 3. Illgouskas</div> The whole reason this thread was made was because Yao has become aggressive after the All-Star break. He's not getting pushed around anymore, so that whole bit about him not being tough enough is moot. And saying Ilgauskas is aggressive is just as laughable as putting him as the second best center in the league. That's something new.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post"> And saying Ilgauskas is aggressive is just as laughable as putting him as the second best center in the league. That's something new. </div> One way he's more aggressive is going for tip-ins. An incredible 11% of his field goals are tip-ins, compared to only 1% for Yao. But Yao is a much better defensive rebounder and offensive force with his back to the basket.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">One way he's more aggressive is going for tip-ins. An incredible 11% of his field goals are tip-ins, compared to only 1% for Yao. But Yao is a much better defensive rebounder and offensive force with his back to the basket.</div> I knew somebody would say something about Illgouskas. I am glad you backed him up when I wasn't on. Illgouskas is a good center. I think is better than Yao. Yao has never impressed me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">I knew somebody would say something about Illgouskas. I am glad you backed him up when I wasn't on. Illgouskas is a good center. I think is better than Yao. Yao has never impressed me.</div> Of course, Ilgauskus is a very good center. I think he should have made the All-star team, in fact. But I don't think he's better than Yao. For example, if the Cavs could choose between Ilgauskus and Yao, I'm almost certain they'd rather have Yao. You can't deny that Yao has been sensational since the All-star break (9 games). If you're not sold on 27.8 ppg and 13.7 rpg over 9 games, then you're a tough customer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">I knew somebody would say something about Illgouskas. I am glad you backed him up when I wasn't on. Illgouskas is a good center. I think is better than Yao. Yao has never impressed me.</div> Just because Ilgauskas gets more tip-ins doesn't mean he's more aggressive. I find him to be quite passive, settling for outside jumpers and never really abusing opposing centers down low. He does have some nice post moves but he's more of a finesse guy IMO. Btw, why hasn't Yao ever impressed you? Is it because of his height? If it is, then I don't know what to say.
He hasn't done anything great. He should dominate but he doesn't. He should have lead the Rockets to the Finals by now but hasn't.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">He hasn't done anything great. He should dominate but he doesn't. He should have lead the Rockets to the Finals by now but hasn't.</div> My brain just exploded.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">He should have lead the Rockets to the Finals by now but hasn't.</div> You've just lost credibillity...also because ilguaskas has?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SpursFan10:</div><div class="quote_post">He hasn't done anything great. He should dominate but he doesn't. He should have lead the Rockets to the Finals by now but hasn't.</div> Why should Yao dominate? Because of his size? Or because of his nationality?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">You've just lost credibillity...also because ilguaskas has?</div> Hey, don't forget that Ilgauskas won a playoff game back in 1998. Give him some credit.
