<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mansunz:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats are easily manipulated. someone can easily 'play' around with stat to make some player look nicer. Yes Yao is better than Shaq</div> That doesnt make sense, since if a player is actually playing well in the NBA, then their stats will be better, as thats what stats are, a measure of a players game performance. its not like you can manipulate stats to make it look like Jackson Vroman is better than Shaq. durvasa, how is wanting to see a good 5 or so years out of him dumb? I see you agreed with Chutney a few posts up who said the exact same thing. All I'm saying is, to call Yao the best centre in the league, I want to see him have at least a good strong consitant 5 or so seasons, to prove to me that he is the best centre in the league. Having one good season and calling him the best centre is whats dumb.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post"> durvasa, how is wanting to see a good 5 or so years out of him dumb? I see you agreed with Chutney a few posts up who said the exact same thing. </div> You said Yao can't be considered the best center in the league unless he plays at that level for five straight seasons. Chutney said one season is sufficient. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> All I'm saying is, to call Yao the best centre in the league, I want to see him have at least a good strong consitant 5 or so seasons, to prove to me that he is the best centre in the league. Having one good season and calling him the best centre is whats dumb.</div> Whatever. We have different definitions of what it means to be the better player, then.
I apologize, I missed the second part of his post. Still, until he can prove to me that he can play at his current state for at least a few seasons, he is not the best centre in the league IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">I apologize, I missed the second part of his post. Still, until he can prove to me that he can play at his current state for at least a few seasons, he is not the best centre in the league IMO.</div> The way I look at it, when I'm comparing two players ("who's better?"), I ask myself which player I'd rather have on my team, if the rest of the teammates were randomly chosen. That, to me, is the most reasonable way to look at it. Based on that, if a particular played played twice as well as another player for a period of, say, 3 straight months, that to me what would be sufficient for me to prefer that player. It seems to me that your definition of "best player" has more to do with reputation than actual current ability. Michael Jordan was the best SG in the game basically after his rookie season. It was obvious. I didn't need to see him for another 3-5 years to come to that conclusion.
Yes but with Jordan, he had an excellent rookie season, Yao's best season has come 4 years into his career. Also I dont consider players as "the best" off reputation, but rather their playing ability and consitancy, which is why I am waiting a few more seasons to call Yao the best centre in the league. You look at every player considered the best in NBA history, Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Magic etc. they were all great players, and they were consitantly great. Yao Ming has been decent and good for one season, tell me how that warrants him as the best centre in the league today?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You look at every player considered the best in NBA history, Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Magic etc. they were all great players, and they were consitantly great. Yao Ming has been decent and good for one season, tell me how that warrants him as the best centre in the league today?</div> Wait, so now you're comparing him to hall of famers? What the hell? He's making a great case for best center in the league right now, but certainly not in the history of the NBA. Needless to say, I'm a bit confused. I get your point that you want to see him stay this level for a couple seasons, but how can this possibly be a fluke? You don't just average twenty points and ten rebounds on luck through forty games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes but with Jordan, he had an excellent rookie season, Yao's best season has come 4 years into his career. Also I dont consider players as "the best" off reputation, but rather their playing ability and consitancy, which is why I am waiting a few more seasons to call Yao the best centre in the league.</div> So just consider this to be Yao's first season. Whats really the difference? Is it really that big of a deal that Yao's best season is here four years later. Which actually, your statement is a falsehood in itself. Because actually, every season he's had was "better" than the last. He just had to develop and take some time to adjust to the NBA and US style basketball. Yao's having an excellent season in his fourth year. Jordan had an excellent season his first year. The only difference I can see is that Jordan had more years ahead of him (which ironically were canceled out by constantly retiring). I mean, if you go by your logic, I can say that Jordan can just screw up the next couple season and not be the best player ever.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post"> You look at every player considered the best in NBA history, Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Magic etc. they were all great players, and they were consitantly great. Yao Ming has been decent and good for one season, tell me how that warrants him as the best centre in the league today?</div> How can you say that averaging 18 ppg and 9 rpg while shooting well over 50% from the field and 80% from the line is not good? Plus, he was putting up those numbers playing just 30-32 minutes a game. That's why your argument is so unconvincing. You make preposterous statements like this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait, so now you're comparing him to hall of famers? What the hell? He's making a great case for best center in the league right now, but certainly not in the history of the NBA. Needless to say, I'm a bit confused. I get your point that you want to see him stay this level for a couple seasons, but how can this possibly be a fluke? You don't just average twenty points and ten rebounds on luck through forty games.</div> Ummmm... you were the person who brought up Michael Jordan, not me. Also you're right, you dont just average 20ppg, 10rpg as a fluke, but I never said he did, all I'm saying is that Yao is not the best centre in the NBA, not once have I said he was a bad player. You guys say my argument isnt convincing, but seeing as though 2 fans of Yao Ming and the Rockets are saying he is the best centre in the NBA isnt anymore convincing than mine.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post"> You guys say my argument isnt convincing, but seeing as though 2 fans of Yao Ming and the Rockets are saying he is the best centre in the NBA isnt anymore convincing than mine.</div> I don't have a problem with you saying Yao isn't the best center in the league. I don't think he is either. Yet. But saying Yao wasn't a good player before this season is simply foolish. Can you at least admit that? 18/9 on 54% shooting, in 31 minutes, is good by any reasonable standard.
I never said he wasnt a good player before this season, I said he was decent in his first 3 seasons and has been good this season (in terms of statistics) and its true. I guess I should've worded it better, but by decent I meant good and by good I meant better or very good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said he wasnt a good player before this season, I said he was decent in his first 3 seasons and has been good this season (in terms of statistics) and its true. I guess I should've worded it better, but by decent I meant good and by good I meant better or very good.</div> Oh, so by "mediocre/decent at best" you meant good? Riiiight. I consider that a concession, by the way. And I thought Yao was "very good" last year (as in top-20 player in the league), and this year he's starting to close in on "great."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Having one good season and calling him the best centre is whats dumb.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess I should've worded it better, but by decent I meant good and by good I meant better or very good.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Your right stats don't mean anything so let's look at records. Miami = 2nd in the east Houston= not in the playoffs right now Shaq makes more of an impact and Yao hasn't been able to carry a team like Shaq has.</div> wait wait.. wth r u talking about.. did shaq miss like 21 games due to an injury?? lemme tell u... yao missed 21 games.. and ever since t-mac got back from the back spasms he hasnt been 100% healthy... u expect us to be in a playoff spot with yao missing 21 games, and t-mac missing 15+?? While on the other hand, shaq and d-wade played 95% of the season
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">wait wait.. wth r u talking about.. did shaq miss like 21 games due to an injury?? lemme tell u... yao missed 21 games.. and ever since t-mac got back from the back spasms he hasnt been 100% healthy... u expect us to be in a playoff spot with yao missing 21 games, and t-mac missing 15+?? While on the other hand, shaq and d-wade played 95% of the season</div> And if you look at the numbers, the Rockets have been better with Yao on the court and no McGrady then Miami has been with Shaq and no Wade on the court. Despite the Rockets having far worse role players than the Heat.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">For those of you saying Miller, Camby and Gasol should be considered best centers in the NBA, that's just retarded. You can't even build a team around Camby or Miller, and Gasol isn't even a center. It's amazing how low some could stoop just to prove a invalid point.</div> The term 'best' doesn't necessarily have to have relevance to being a 'franchise' player. For example, I can easily say that the Bucks are trying to build a team around Andrew Bogut, but that doesn't mean he's better than either Miller or Camby....not yet anyway. The context of this thread suggests the term 'best' is in reference to the present - the best right now ... I'm might be alone on this but right now, when healthy, Camby has been the best center in the league IMO ... rebounding and defense is weighted a bit more than scoring for my criteria of a center (altho scoring is still a decisive factor)... However, if Yao can sustain his post All-star play for another month, it's going to be hard to dismiss his tremendous offensive output. I'll concede this, he's definitely on his way to becoming the best center in the game...
Last 5 games: 28.6 PPG | 11.6 RPG | 1.6 APG | 1.8 TPG | 3.0 BPG | 53% FG | 37.2 MPG I don't know how you can argue against that, he's easily making a case. I think Shaq is still up there with him, and has some things that could give him and edge but Yao can easily be argued. Shaq last 5: 22.4 PPG | 11.0 RPG | 2.4 APG | 3 TPG | 2.2 BPG | 61.1% FG | 35.0 MPG
And I agree with that 100%, the stats dont lie, Yao has been very good, very consistant <u>lately</u>, and <u>right now</u> (at this current state of time) he is probally the best centre in the league, but <u>overall</u> he is not.
Shaq can be good and all.......but there is no way you can justify how much money he gets paid. If he deserves like 20 million or whatever, DWade should get twice as much!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq can be good and all.......but there is no way you can justify how much money he gets paid. If he deserves like 20 million or whatever, DWade should get twice as much!</div> What does this have to do with anything?
