<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's probably going to be one of the best NBA rivalries for the next decade: LeBron James vs. Dwyane Wade. The matchup was on display again Sunday as James scored 47 points, but his Cavs lost 98-92 in Miami. Wade had 35 points, including a victory-sealing breakaway dunk. James and Wade are probably the top two individual players in the Eastern Conference. And while Wade never has had the attention and buildup of James, this question perhaps can be asked: If the 2003 draft were held now, who would go No. 1? I'd still go with James. But Wade--unlike then when the Bulls were certain the undersized Chicago kid from Marquette would fall to them at No. 7--could be favorably compared with James, especially the way Wade finishes games. Wade has had a half-dozen game-winners already in his career, including in the All-Star Game. Plus he scored his team's last 17 points to beat the Pistons on Feb. 12, probably the best non-Kobe performance of the season. So I wondered whether Wade, whose Heat is here Saturday to play the Bulls, had surpassed James. Though James is generally elevated for his versatility, Wade ranks in the NBA's top 10 in scoring, assists and steals and displays all-around contributions that rank among the best. Plus Wade led the Heat into the second round of the playoffs even before playing with Shaquille O'Neal. So I asked almost a dozen NBA executives and insiders without using their names for fear of tampering: If the 2003 draft were redone now, who would be No. 1? The consensus was James, but it was close. "Very close," one coach said. "LeBron has better court vision and end-to-end speed." "LeBron's athleticism and size," a general manager said. "I could make a case for Wade No. 1, though not as clear cut." "LeBron because he's so gifted," another general manager added. "But Wade's mid-range game is better and he is much better coming through in the clutch than LeBron." That draft may turn out to be one of the best. If redone, it would probably look like this: James, Wade, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, Kirk Hinrich and Chris Kaman. All of them could be All-Stars, with other All-Star possibilities including Josh Howard, the last pick in the first round, Boris Diaw, David West, T.J. Ford and perhaps Mickael Pietrus. Darko Milicic was No. 2 overall and at just 20 years old still may develop into a contributor.</div> Source
I don't even think their is a gap between them. Sure, many teams would rather have LeBron because of his size, court vision, and versatility/durability, but both have basically had the same impact on the court. Wade is clutch, and has accomplished more than LeBron in their short careers by reaching the playoffs in his first 2 seasons and advancing, so really, their is no gap. LeBron is the one that has to close the gap by showing that he can carry his team to the playoffs and come through in the clutch.
D Wade also had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler in his rookie year and had shaq in his second. Lebron had....well big z
James is the better overall player in my opinion...and he's 2 years and 11 months younger than Wade. That alone would make it a no contest #1 pick. I love Wade as well...but i think it'd be tight for #2. Wade's got the edge on Bosh in some ways, but you can never forget that Big Men are more valuable than guards due to the shortage of talent 6-10 and above now and days. Bosh is also 2 years younger than him, who knows how good this kid can be when he's Wade's age Wade's had more "success" on the basketball court...which is his biggest advantage on the basketball court in my eyes. but again...who knows how Bosh will be doing in 2 years. Regardless...i'm happy they've put Bosh at least at #3
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">D Wade also had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler in his rookie year and had shaq in his second. Lebron had....well big z</div> Wade had Lamar and Caron in his rookie season and led them to the second round of the playoffs. LeBron had a solid Jeff McInnis, Big Z, and Carlos Boozer and didn't make the playoffs. Last year, Wade led the Heat in the second round against the Wizards without Shaq, and had he stayed healthy along with Shaq, probably would've gone to the finals. Then, the Cavs added Drew Gooden who had almost the same impact as Boozer a year before, and still had a top 5 center in Big Z and yet again didn't make the playoffs, so don't make it sound like LeBron had nobody to work with.
Lamar Odom and a younger Caron Butler those are two guys that make you think PLAYOFFS what are you talking about? Dwayne owns LeBron right now as far as I am concerned. I don't care how what a physical freak Le Bron is, I would start a team around Wade before LeBron any day of the week.
..that might not be smart. Wade's shorter, smaller, far less versatile, has weaker court vision and isnt any better defensively. Only thing he has over Lebron at the moment is experience and success. He might have a bit more drive also but thats debatable. And at the end of the day Lebron is 2 years and 11 months younger. Lebron > Wade any day of the weak if you factor in age. and in my opinion Bosh > Wade 2 years from now
Wade hasn't proven himself, to me, without Shaq. Once Shaq leaves or retires, Wade will struggle a lot worse than Kobe Bryant did his first season without Shaq. Why? Wade doesn't have a strong jumper. His game is based off of driving to the hoop, that will be a lot harder without Shaq. What Wade does have though, is a killer instint. Behind Kobe, Carmelo, Pierce, and even possibly Arenas, Wade is a top 5 player with the ball in clutch time. You can't say the Same for LeBron, a choker. The Cavs are better with Flip Murray having the ball on the final possession. Who would I rather build my team around? Honestly, I'd go with Wade, even though I just argued against him. Wade just has that instinct to finish games off. LeBron doesn't have that, and most likely, he won't because it's something you're born with, you can't learn it. LeBron can pass, rebound, and score, but if he can't seal the game for you, I don't want him on my team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting K8B:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade hasn't proven himself, to me, without Shaq. Once Shaq leaves or retires, Wade will struggle a lot worse than Kobe Bryant did his first season without Shaq. Why? Wade doesn't have a strong jumper. His game is based off of driving to the hoop, that will be a lot harder without Shaq. What Wade does have though, is a killer instint. Behind Kobe, Carmelo, Pierce, and even possibly Arenas, Wade is a top 5 player with the ball in clutch time. You can't say the Same for LeBron, a choker. The Cavs are better with Flip Murray having the ball on the final possession. Who would I rather build my team around? Honestly, I'd go with Wade, even though I just argued against him. Wade just has that instinct to finish games off. LeBron doesn't have that, and most likely, he won't because it's something you're born with, you can't learn it. LeBron can pass, rebound, and score, but if he can't seal the game for you, I don't want him on my team.</div> That was strange.....the heat are........in my opinion Wades team
No doubt they're Wade's team, but playing with Shaquille O'neal helps him out a lot. Shaq demands double, sometimes triple teams. A lot of the time, that makes things a lot easier for Wade, as it did for Bryant. When Shaq leaves or retires, you will see Wade struggle like Bryant did last year. He's going to have to adapt to life without Shaq. Wade will face the same critics that Bryant did. Am I saying he won't overcome the task? Hell no. Wade is a strong-willed individual. He'll be a hell of a player when his career is over, but playing without Shaq will cause him struggles at first.
K8B, what about the fact oneal was out for a good month with that ankle injury, didnt look like he was struggling...Wade carried the heat and kept them 2nd in the east for the most part
People really need to stop ignoring the team Wade has had around him throughout his career so far as opposed to players Lebron has had around him. Its getting a little annoying with people making that same point over and over and never acknowledging that Wade has been on good teams, Lebron has had Zydrunas Ilgauskas and .... basically nobody else.
I think the main takeaway isn't that Wade is an inferior player, it's just that James is a freak of nature. The guy has Ben Wallace's body.. I mean LITERALLY, I think the difference is only a few pounds between them.. and he has an incredible vert, handles, pentration, court vision...... on and on. Which again, is not to say that Wade doesn't have all that.. but Wade is not a godlike physical specimen.. It's just impossible to pass up James as a pick, not even taking into account his marketability.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade's shorter, smaller, far less versatile</div> How is Wade far less versatile? LeBron averages 30/7/6 and Wade averages 27/5/6. Of course LeBron is going to average more rebounds because he's taller and stronger. LeBron has 4 triple doubles and Wade has 2. So how is LeBron far more versatile? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">has weaker court vision and isnt any better defensively. Only thing he has over Lebron at the moment is experience and success. He might have a bit more drive also but thats debatable.</div> Wade is a great passer, and while he does not see the court as well as LeBron, you can't argue with 6.8 APG. That's tops for all SG's. And their is no doubt he has a killer instinct that rivals Kobe and Carmelo when it comes down to the clutch. I can't say the same about LeBron. BTW, Wade isn't any better defensively? Is that a joke? When LeBron makes the All-defensive team, bring that point back up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And at the end of the day Lebron is 2 years and 11 months younger.</div> Age has no factor IMO. Wade has just as much potential as LeBron. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade hasn't proven himself, to me, without Shaq.</div> 2003-2004: Wade averages 16/4/4, leading the Heat to the playoffs after a 5-15 start, and they go on to defeat New Orleans, which includes Wade's shot over Baron Davis to get them the victory. In round 2, Wade as a rookie holds his own against Artest and the Pacers, and go down in a tough 6 game series. 2004-2005 playoffs: Wade goes absolutely crazy against the Wizards, carrying the team without Shaq for pretty much the whole series (Shaq played 2 games, but he was pretty much a non-factor), and schools All-defensive first team player Larry Hughes. Then in the ECF, Tayshaun Prince, widely regarded as a top 3 perimeter defender in the league, gets beaten time and time again by Wade and admits that Wade was tougher to guard than Kobe. Shaq did play against Detroit, but it was no secret that Wade was Detroit's main focus. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once Shaq leaves or retires, Wade will struggle a lot worse than Kobe Bryant did his first season without Shaq. Why? Wade doesn't have a strong jumper. His game is based off of driving to the hoop, that will be a lot harder without Shaq.</div> I don't buy that all. First of all, Wade has a great mid range game. People think he doesn't have a perimeter game because he doesn't have a 3 PT shot, but that's not true. Dwyane does infact have a consistent jumpshot, it's just that he doesn't have 3 PT range yet. Second, Wade in his rookie season, without Shaq, drove to the hoop consistently and got results. He averaged 16 PPG on 46% shooting. I can't see Wade taking a huge dive like Kobe did. And everybody complaining about LeBron's supporting cast, let's not forget, that in his first 2 seasons, they were in the playoff position. Last year, they were even 2nd place at one point. But time and time again, they choke down the stretch. Last year, the Cavs lost out on the playoffs, on the final day of the season, but it shouldn't have come down to that in the first place! Drew Gooden, Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Jeff McInnis, Ricky Davis, Darius Miles, these are some of the players that LeBron has had around him. While no where close to Wade's supporting cast, it's not like LeBron was working with scrubs, he's had good talent around him. Whatever LeBron can do, Wade can do just as good (besides 3 pointers).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">People really need to stop ignoring the team Wade has had around him throughout his career so far as opposed to players Lebron has had around him. Its getting a little annoying with people making that same point over and over and never acknowledging that Wade has been on good teams, Lebron has had Zydrunas Ilgauskas and .... basically nobody else.</div> LeBron had Jeff McInnis, Big Z, and Carlos Boozer. What did Wade have? Don't mention Caron. Butler was coming off an injury-plagued year and didn't produce nearly as well as his rookie year. He also had Lamar, but LeBron's cast was much more potent. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NaKz:</div><div class="quote_post">K8B, what about the fact oneal was out for a good month with that ankle injury, didnt look like he was struggling...Wade carried the heat and kept them 2nd in the east for the most part</div> Sure, that was two weeks, but do you really think he could keep up the play over a season? Once teams figured out his game, he would struggle. He needs to expand on his perimeter shooting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting K8B:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure, that was two weeks, but do you really think he could keep up the play over a season? Once teams figured out his game, he would struggle. He needs to expand on his perimeter shooting.</div> From November 5th to December 9th: 18 G, 26.6 PPG/6.5 RPG/6.5 APG I have no doubt he would be able to carry the Heat to the playoffs while still putting up great stats. You can't say it was 'only 18 games', because you and me both know he could still put up the stats without Shaq.
Its a reciprocal relationship, IMO. I doubt Shaq would still be putting up those consistent numbers if he was the only legit number one option. They both raise each other's level of play.
Wade for MVP All this "wade has shaq" "wade has great players" is nonsense to me. in his first year Wade SINGLE-HANDEDLY took over a team in his ROOKIE YEAR that was GARBAGE, coming off one of the worst seasons and brought them to the playoffs, hitting clutch shot after clutch shot. Year 2, lamar and caron were shipped, okay he got Shaq, but aside from having (a not so dominant anymore) Shaq, who do we have? Damon Jones, Keyon Dooling, Udonis Haslem, - wow sounds like an allstar team. They take the pistons to 7 in the conf. finals, again Wade steps up big time and leads the team setting the tone with a clutch mentality. Year 3, they add Antoine "We're losing...time for me to start hoisting threes or charging to the rim then hope i get a call and whine when I don't" Walker, trigger happy overhandling Jason Williams, a "all i do is block shots and rebound" Zo, etc., is not a supporting cast of superstars that some of you think it is.....And the times Shaq has been out Wade has been more than capable of leading the team to victory. Wade is the MAN. he's Kobe - with class. a very underrated player. now you tell me what has LeBron done that comes close to these things that Wade has done so far in each of their careers?
The crazy part is that Wade can get a lot better. If he improves his man-to-man defense and developes 3pt range he can be the best 2 guard since MJ. And it's funny cuz Jordan was criticized for the same areas in his game when he got in the league. And he's already the last 2 Guard since Jordan to average 25+ppg at 50% FG.
Just to inform phunDamentalz, in Wade's first year, Lamar was the first option in Miami. He led them to that seaosn, with Wade as the second man. Wade had a great playoff run though and got the recognition.
