Amazing comeback by the raptors, went on a 21-2 run or something to to end the game. Who needs march madness. Chris Bosh finally came up in clutch time for us nailing two free throws after a nice drive to the bucket where he got fouled. Raptors win 97-96.
woot, what a game by CB4. Great coaching by Sam, what a comeback. EDIT: Who said Mike JAmes isnt clutch?
damn work made me miss the game. I was following this on espn gamecast and I thought it was over. Everone other than Bosh was struggling and they were down big. I'm not sure how you can lose a game that you were up 16 with 5 minutes left. You would have to play pretty bad.
wow. The Raptors were playing so bad, so I got bored and fell asleep with 4-6 minutes left. After I woke up I see the Raptors up by 1 with 3.4 secs...talk about timing...
<font color=""Red""></font> I'm going to give the raptors this win b/c ever since mike james got on the team they have palying better and everything
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting suggsboy2:</div><div class="quote_post"><font color=""Red""></font> I'm going to give the raptors this win b/c ever since mike james got on the team they have palying better and everything</div> Uh, the game has already been played.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Uh, the game has already been played.</div> And his prediction was right, man, this guy is good
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting i-eat-nets:</div><div class="quote_post">woot, what a game by CB4. Great coaching by Sam, what a comeback. EDIT: Who said Mike JAmes isnt clutch?</div> wait wait wait! Where is everyone saying that Mitchell should be fired??? Now he is a great coach? Opinions shouldn't change just b/c we win or lose. If ppl saying that weren't more than bandwagon fans they would still be saying that he should be fired for whatever BS reason...we shouldn't have been down by that much, it was a broken play and Bosh scored, or it wasn't an "original" offensive play drawn up at the end. Well ALL season there have been a FEW of us that have constantly said that this team needs time to grow and gel and Mitchell it isn't Mitchell's fault, that it wasn't Babcock's fault (cuz this is still essentially the same team he built minus a bit) It was a great game and it'll be interesting to see if we can play spoiler some more! For all you so called supporters...make up your minds!
Well, I still think we need to get a better coach. He has no idea how to teach defense as we are no doubt one of the worst defensive teams in the league. We run the same play at the end of every single game. We're so transparent, it's not even funny. We can't win in close games and we can't win in overtime. Who does that reflect on? Need I go on?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">wait wait wait! Where is everyone saying that Mitchell should be fired??? Now he is a great coach? Opinions shouldn't change just b/c we win or lose. If ppl saying that weren't more than bandwagon fans they would still be saying that he should be fired for whatever BS reason...we shouldn't have been down by that much, it was a broken play and Bosh scored, or it wasn't an "original" offensive play drawn up at the end. Well ALL season there have been a FEW of us that have constantly said that this team needs time to grow and gel and Mitchell it isn't Mitchell's fault, that it wasn't Babcock's fault (cuz this is still essentially the same team he built minus a bit) It was a great game and it'll be interesting to see if we can play spoiler some more! For all you so called supporters...make up your minds!</div> I'm not completely sure what you're trying to say here but no one's blaming our season soley on Mitchell. Our losing has more to do with inexperience, lack of depth, lack of rebounders, no interior defenders, etc... What some of us are saying however, is that Mitchell doesn't seem like the kind of coach who can take the Raps far into the playoffs. He seems like a good player's coach but doesn't seem like an X's and O's kinda guy, or in other words, someone who'd draw out a play that would make you think, "wow, that was brilliant!"
I actually thought Terry Stotts made Mitchell look good. He had the game in his hands, and let the Raps' relatively simple offense beat them. Just another example of the Bucks underachieving. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I still think we need to get a better coach. He has no idea how to teach defense as we are no doubt one of the worst defensive teams in the league. We run the same play at the end of every single game. We're so transparent, it's not even funny. We can't win in close games and we can't win in overtime. Who does that reflect on?</div> I wouldn't blame our defense on Mitchell, more our offense. The players are just poor defensively, and don't pick up the basics of defense. I'm sure Sam's tried to get them to defend properly, but, aside from Mo-Pete, the team just forgets everything down the stretch. Our simplistic, predictable offense is Sam's fault. We rely too much on simple pick and rolls and Mitchell doesn't recognize when the team needs to adjust its gameplan (eg: Bosh vs. Jefferson). Also, he seems hesitant to yank the starters out for a while when they become too passive. I know our team lacks depth, but Bosh and James sometimes go for stretches by putting up jumper after jumper.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not completely sure what you're trying to say here but no one's blaming our season soley on Mitchell. Our losing has more to do with inexperience, lack of depth, lack of rebounders, no interior defenders, etc... What some of us are saying however, is that Mitchell doesn't seem like the kind of coach who can take the Raps far into the playoffs. He seems like a good player's coach but doesn't seem like an X's and O's kinda guy, or in other words, someone who'd draw out a play that would make you think, "wow, that was brilliant!"</div> there is a whole post that is titled "Fire Mitchell", and when did the playoffs ever come into things? I don't think anyone in their right mind thought we would make the playoffs this year. And Mitchell, just like the team is learning how to be successful. We can't forget that it is only his 2nd year ever coaching. Is that an excuse...no, but if we aren't expecting to make the playoffs even why are we expecting Mitchell to instantly be a spectacular and solid coach? As for a predictable offense, why change what is working? Granted he is too slow to change things up when it isn't working, but there are other teams in the league that opposing teams know exactly what they are going to do, this forces teams to focus more on how to stop you rather than on how to beat you. Everyone always knew that Utah would run the pick and roll with Stockton and Malone all night don't hear anyone ever complaining that Jerry Sloan was predictable. oh ya and eclipse at the end of the day it ALWAYS reflects on the players. The coach is always the fall guy cuz it is easier to fire one guy that try and trade / get rid of a team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for a predictable offense, why change what is working?</div> Which part is working exactly? We're something like 1-6 (0-6 before last game) in games decided by 3 points or less, and we're 1-6 in overtime. I can't tell you how many other close games we've lost. Why is that? Everyone knows exactly what we're going to do in crunch time and when the "play" breaks down or Bosh gets doubled, we end up just chucking the ball at the net and hoping for the best. There is no backup plan. Utah was predictable but you can't compare Bosh and James to Stockton or Malone. Nor can you compare Mitchell to Sloan. Mitchell is nowhere near where Sloan is at. Sloan's teams are always known for their preparation, execution and hard work. None of which are qualities the Raptors have been known for the past two years. Sloan had one of the worst teams in the league not too long ago but they still remained competitive. Even when the play broke down with those guys they were able to make something happen. Bosh and James dont have the ability. Problem is the Raptors look clueless when everything doesn't go according to plan and that Mitchell's job to prepare them. I don't really buy into the notion that the whole team is bad defensively and that they can't play defense. We were one of the worst teams in the league before we hired O'Neill (a defensive specialist) and we had a decent defensive team that year. So with the right coach, it is possible.
Personally, I think Sam Mitchell would be an excellent assistant coach, he's a good player's guy and really seems like he can help develop a lot of the young guys. The Raptors always seem to have the same problem in the coaching department. Here's an article from 2003 which may seem familiar to our current situation: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> THE RAPTORS NEED A NEW COACH AND A NEW PHILOSOPHY January 6, 2003 There is an amusing moment during last year’s draft coverage when a proposed Cleveland trade is mentioned to Raptor GM Glen Grunwald. The caveat to the trade is that the Cavs will trade a draft choice only if it is lottery protected and they make the playoffs. “That won’t be next year,” smiled Grunwald. How ironic is it that the Cavs GM could have said the same thing about the Raptors. Having ignored the calls for Lenny’s dismissal during last season’s lengthy losing streak Grunwald must now face the music as his team falls into a deep chasm that it is unlikely to escape. A change has to be made; a new philosophy has to be brought in, and the team can’ afford the status quo even for the remainder of this lost season. It is likely that the Raptors will wait until the all-star break before they make a decision, but with three days off the change should be made this week or the Raptors will soon be called something soft like the Rapsies. Lenny was the perfect choice when he was hired. The team needed the other extreme after the Butch Carter flame-out. The Raptors needed a calm, veteran, assured hand to lead the team, and that year, under Lenny’s patient guidance, players like Alvin Williams began to flourish. The team found its stride as it headed into the playoffs and only its playoff inexperience and an off-centre last second shot kept them from an appearance in the conference finals. It was to be the height of the Lenny years. The next season a Raptor team that was among the favourites to win the conference underachieved, lost its rhythm and confidence as they struggled just to make the playoffs. During a horrendous 13 game losing streak it became apparent that the wheels had finally come off the Lenny bus. His experience and savvy weren’t enough to extricate the team from the terrible skid, and only a poor performance from a Miami Heat team enabled Toronto to end the skid. Lenny started to show the “deer in the headlights” look that has been so prevalent this season. Only a soft closing schedule, Antonio Davis’ ability to motivate his team, and some incredible luck got the team into the playoffs and save Lenny’s job for one more season. This season the team continues to flounder, and the problems that were so apparent in the middle of last season, the problems that were hidden under the emotion at the end of last season, are now so severe that the Raptors are losing to the cavaliers at home. At this point the Raptors are the fodder for every NBA team. Even a team like the Denver Nuggets would be licking their chops at the possibility of playing the Raptors. At $5 million per year Lenny is well compensated, and it is the contract that likely prevents the Raptor organization from making a change. They don’t want to pay a coach not to coach for the rest of this year and next year. If the organization simply promoted one of their assistants for the interim they wouldn’t pay much more—they would have to give that assistant a bump in pay—but it would give them some time to go out and look for a proper replacement. They don’t need someone this year; they can bring someone in for next year. The money being spent on Lenny isn’t worth the continued fall of the organization in the eyes of management, the NBA, and most importantly, Raptor fans. The team has lost 23 out of their last 27 games—a string that cannot be pinned on one reason, like injuries. The team has not looked cohesive, it has not looked motivated, and it has not looked energetic. The consistent fourth-quarter collapses have marked this team, and opponents know that if they apply pressure in the final 12 minutes the Raptors will fold. Take away the lanes for any passes or drives inside and the Raptors will panic and force up wayward jump shots. It is simple strategy that the Raptor coaching staff has been unable to combat. It started last season and has carried over—in crunch time the Raptors will panic and will ultimately fold, no matter who is on the floor. To watch a team consistently go four, five, eight minutes without a basket down the stretch is not the fault of the players, it’s the fault of the coaching staff. The players are victims of stress, and are easily drawn into traps set by the opposing teams. The coaching staff is supposed to be there to create solutions to the problems—don’t expect the players to think so much, there isn’t time. If strategies are properly thought out and properly taught then it will become second nature to the players and they will not continue to make the same mistakes down the stretch. Lenny has been drawn into the excuse game this season. He uses the injuries as a reason why the team has struggled, and uses terms like “running out of gas” to describe the late game flops. The players have lost confidence in their coach. Long losing streaks are not supposed to happen to talented teams like the Raptors. The coaches are supposed to create game plans that play on their strengths and exploit the opposing team’s weaknesses. Even by accident a team wins an occasional game. Not every opponent plays well, not every opponent hits the key shot, not every opponent can shut down the Raptor strengths, but losing 23 out of 27 shows that the team can’t win games anymore. The team needs one of two things—an offensive-minded coach who has the ability to create plays that get the ball to the basket; who can run sets that include three players—the one who starts the play, the one who makes the play, and the one who finishes the play. And none of the three have to be exceptional to have the play succeed. That offensive coach would then bring in a defensive coach who would work systems, including zones and traps, and who could finally provide an answer to the woeful raptor defence on pick and roll plays. The other option is the reverse—a defensive minded coach who brings in an offensive assistant. Either way it is time for the Raptor players to have more to work with than simple screen and rolls and post-ups. And motivation is a huge key. Players often need a kick in the pants when they continue to make the same mistakes. Advise and teach to a point, and then discipline. MoPete should not have been playing such extraordinary minutes this season playing the way he has, there have been many games when he has been horrible and should have been sat in favour of Chris Jefferies. But Lenny has no confidence in his bench players, seems to actually dislike rookies, and keeps his regulars on the floor even when they are terrible. Sometimes it is better to think less about the game at hand and to think more about the long term development of players—send them a message that poor play will not be tolerated no matter who you are. Now it’s too late. Lenny has been a terrific NBA coach for decades. It isn’t a fluke that he is the all-time winningest coach; he has the attitude and the patience that sets him up for success. He lets his players play through mistakes and he shows commendable patience as players develop. But he has shown that he is not a coach that likes to play the younger players and this team needs to see if those players can play in this league. This team also needs discipline, it needs creativity, and it needs structure. Lenny can obviously not provide these things anymore. Glen Grunwald is a patient man, and patience is often rewarded. But sometimes you can wait too long. If the Raptors do wait until the all-star break it will show the team that losing isn’t as unacceptable as they would have believed. This will set a bad precedent, and it will make it difficult for future coaches in future years to eradicate. Glen should send a message to his team that poor coaching and a poor record will not be tolerated, but then Glen probably has as much confidence in the assistants as Lenny has with rookies.</div> Link
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">there is a whole post that is titled "Fire Mitchell", and when did the playoffs ever come into things? I don't think anyone in their right mind thought we would make the playoffs this year. And Mitchell, just like the team is learning how to be successful. We can't forget that it is only his 2nd year ever coaching. Is that an excuse...no, but if we aren't expecting to make the playoffs even why are we expecting Mitchell to instantly be a spectacular and solid coach?</div> Well if BC can re-sign Mike James, obtain a centre who can rebound and defend, and maybe add a little depth to our bench, I think it would be safe to say that we'd be playoff bound in the weak eastern conference next season (barring any major injuries). I'm guessing you'd want to see Mitchell back next season right? Well given Mitchell's performance so far as a coach, would you be confident to see him leading our team if we do make the playoffs next year? You can talk about how it's only his first two seasons as a head coach, but even within that time you should get a fair reading on how good of a coach he can become. For example, Butch Carter was a head coach for only about two full seasons yet he was still able to show that he had potential to be a solid head coach in the future (who could forget his famous, "guard the inbounder w/ two players"). Heck, even Kevin O'Neill in his disasterous year as head coach even showed that he can draw up plays better than Mitchell. Problem with those two was that they're both nutjobs and most of the players just didn't respect them (in Carter's case, our GM also hated his guts).... I guess that's the only thing Mitchell has going for him right now, which is, that he can form better relationships with his players than our previous head coaches ever could (and he's less of a nutjob than some of them too)...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post"> I wouldn't blame our defense on Mitchell, more our offense. Our simplistic, predictable offense is Sam's fault.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post"> Heck, even Kevin O'Neill in his disasterous year as head coach even showed that he can draw up plays better than Mitchell. </div> What is with all this criticism of Sam’s offence? Do you guys think before you type some of this stuff? does anyone remember Kevin Oneil’s team? The 05/06 Raptors avg. 100.4 PPG good for sixth in the NBA, in 03-04 year under Kevin Oneil the Raptors Averaged a whopping 85.4 PPG. That was w/ a far more talented offensive team e.g. V. Carter, D. Marshall and J. rose. The 05-06 raptors are a lot better offensively, way more ball movement especially making that “Second Pass”. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post"> He seems like a good player's coach but doesn't seem like an X's and O's kinda guy, or in other words, someone who'd draw out a play that would make you think, "wow, that was brilliant!" </div> I know there has been criticism of the last second shot choices, personally I have had no beef w/ them M. James is a excellent 1 on 1 player, who usually can create a good a looking shot. Furthermore anyone who watched the Bucks Raptors game saw some great last second coaching by Sam, first off M. Redd makes a driving layup w/ 37 tix on the clock(score 96-92). Sam calls on a immediate time-out and draws up a play so the raptors can go 2 for 1. Mike James comes off a baseline screen on the inbound play and strokes a 3 pointer (score 96-95) 34 tix left on the clock. That play won us the game because the raptors were then able to secure the last shot. Sam recognized the need to go 2 for 1 and in matter of 3 seconds the raptors ran a good looking play resulting in an open shot for Mike James. Not Much more you can ask from a coach. Made me think “ Wow that was Brilliant”. The Problem W/ the Raptors is there Defense. Especially there help side defense its pathetic. However the fact that we lack any resemblance of a post presence defensively and all the time are first year and players get makes for a reasonable excuse for Sam. Of course no one likes making excuses. Finally the comparison between Lenny Wilkins and Sam Mitchell coaching style makes no sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drake Remoray:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Raptors always seem to have the same problem in the coaching department. Here's an article from 2003 which may seem familiar to our current situation: </div> Offensively Wilkins and Mitchell are polar opposites. During Wilkins tenure players complained about how Wilkins would call a set play for EVERY possession. Conversely Mitchell runs a free wheeling offensive predicated on motion principals and ball movement.
Drunk...least someone else knows what they are talking about! I was going to bust out that 6th in the NBA in scoring next but you beat me to it! haha So to all you haters out there, obviously our offense IS working, and if you are bitching about being 1-6 and losing a bunch of close games look to not being able to shut down the opponent. In quite a few of those games we were up large only to have whoever (Dallas, etc) come back from way down. Why? Because we couldn't stop them. Not because Mitchell didn't write up a super cool tricky highschool play. Respect goes a long ways in this league, rookies have to get their due before they get calls, same with coaches, players need to respect their coach in order to listen. Look at Larry Brown, a hall of fame coach, and he is doint worse than Mitchell, why?....because he doesn't have the respect of his players. I look at the Raps and see that Mitchell was the one that saved them from THEIR horrible 1-16 start by getting them to understand what he was preaching. And how can you compare old coaches to now unless they have the same team?!??? The Raps O'Neill coached didn't have 3 rookies playin major minutes did they? I wasn't comparing Bosh & James to Stockton in Malone just saying that teams knew what was coming and couldn't stop it so what is the difference if we do that maybe just not as good but still good....remember 6th in points! Also I wasn't comparing Mitchell to Sloan NOW, Obviously. Sloan has 20 something years of coaching and sure he took a bad team and made it competetive, but isn't that what Mitchell is doing now? Or did you all forget that we were predicted to finish dead last in just about every season preview. I would say the team Mitchell has was worse than what Sloan had to work with at the time. And Eclipse ...are you saying our guys aren't coming out and working hard or executing? Mo Pete isn't play hard? Bosh isn't? Mike James isn't? CV and Joey learning? Calderon or Bonner not giving 100%.... and obviously we're exectuting or we wouldn't be 6th in pts scored. The improvements have been obvious in Sam's adaptation to bench boss from year one to year two and that is with alll the turmoil of last year which you can't really put any blame on Mitchell cuz that was a gong show. So maybe we should read how good a coach is gonna be is getting your team to gel and play .500 ball after a 1-16 start that would've killed a lot of teams/coaches. Why don't the rest of you see that this is the most positive team we've seen since waaaay back and Mitchell is an integral part of that.
Its still a very simple offense and the fact that we are among the league leader in ppg is because of our talented offensive players, rather than coaching. You can see the flaws in our offense when the Raps have a bad shooting night or the game comes down to the wire. The team doesn't space themselves properly, theres no movement without the ball, and it really comes down to one or two players shooting the ball. Add to that his inability to adapt to the other team's defense, and his passive nature when it comes to his stars and you have an offense that looks better than it is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drunkballer:</div><div class="quote_post">What is with all this criticism of Sam?s offence? Do you guys think before you type some of this stuff? does anyone remember Kevin Oneil?s team? The 05/06 Raptors avg. 100.4 PPG good for sixth in the NBA, in 03-04 year under Kevin Oneil the Raptors Averaged a whopping 85.4 PPG. That was w/ a far more talented offensive team e.g. V. Carter, D. Marshall and J. rose. The 05-06 raptors are a lot better offensively, way more ball movement especially making that ?Second Pass?. </div> I never said our offense was better under O'Neill, I was just stating that he was able to draw up better plays in crunch time than Mitchell. Other than that however, Mitchell's offensive style is much better b/c he allows more freedom whereas KO wanted to control it even though he had no idea how to go about doing it. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drunkballer:</div><div class="quote_post">I know there has been criticism of the last second shot choices, personally I have had no beef w/ them M. James is a excellent 1 on 1 player, who usually can create a good a looking shot.</div> See that right there is EXACTLY the problem. Since Sam doesn't draw up any plays (outside of iso's and pick and rolls), he's forced to let James run the offense when our opponent's defense is locking down on us, and is this what we want? If James is on a hot streak at that point, then yes, this would work... but when he's struggling, we're left with an unbarably stagnant offense and that's a big reason why we've been witness to the fourth quarter breakdowns on numerous occasions. This has been mentioned a lot on this board, James is NOT a point guard. Relying on his one-on-one's during crunch time is not a wise thing to do. And about that James 3-pointer in the final seconds of the Bucks game, it was the right idea, but James was FAR from being open. TJ was right in his mug yet somehow James was able to knock it down..... It was one of those shots that would be great if it went down, but horrible if he missed.
