<div class="quote_poster">Quoting K8B:</div><div class="quote_post"> Dywane Wade is simply not the MVP of the league, the Heat would still be wining without him because they have Shaq. ... Wade falls in the same category as Chauncey Billups, a great player, but on a great team. If you take either away from their team, that team will still have success because of the other players that are on the team. Plain and simple.</div> Here are the numbers so far this season, as shown at 82games.com: Dwyane Wade <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>On CourtOff Court<br/>minutes2111 765<br/>Offense (per 100 poss)114.899.7<br/>Defense (per 100 poss)105.3106.7<br/>Net+9.5-7.0<br/></div> How does this square away with your statement that the Heat would be winning without Wade? With him off the court, they've been outscored by a considerable margin. Assuming he was replaced by an average player, it is not at all certain that the Heat would be a winning team. Keep in mind that Shaq missed a lot of time early in the season, and his minutes have been way down throughout the season. For comparison, here are Kobe's +/- numbers. Kobe Bryant <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>On CourtOff Court<br/>minutes2708 581<br/>Offense (per 100 poss)112.193.6<br/>Defense (per 100 poss)108.9101.5<br/>Net+3.2-7.9<br/></div> Overall, the Heat have been +16.5 points per 100 poss better with Wade, where the Lakers have been +11.2 points per 100 poss better with Kobe. Heat have been a better offensive team, and also slightly better on the defensive end with Wade. Lakers have been a considerably better offensive team with Kobe, but worse defensively. No one should take these numbers as proof that Wade is more "valuable" than Kobe, but they do indicate that his presence has a significant impact on the Heat which I think you're severely underrating.
Dwyane Wade definitely deserves MVP considerations, but I still think Nash and Dirk should be ahead of him. Wade is having a great season for the Heat and has become the leader of this team. The only reason he wouldn't get my vote is the fact he plays with Shaq. I know Wade performs well even when Shaq isn't playing, but the Heat are only around a .500 team without Shaq on the court. He's in a similar situation to Tony Parker in San Antonio. TP is also having a great season, while Duncan has allowed him to play a bigger role on offense. I think both Wade and Parker have taken full advantage of the rule changes, which have made them close to un-guardable. However, they have the ability to attack them rim because of the spacing their teammates create for them. Still you have to tip your hat to Steve Nash and the Suns. They are still winning despite not having Amare for the entire season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Dwyane Wade definitely deserves MVP considerations, but I still think Nash and Dirk should be ahead of him. Wade is having a great season for the Heat and has become the leader of this team. The only reason he wouldn't get my vote is the fact he plays with Shaq. I know Wade performs well even when Shaq isn't playing, but the Heat are only around a .500 team without Shaq on the court.</div> In terms of point differential, the Heat are +6.36 points/48min with Wade on the court and Shaq off the court which can be gleaned off the numbers here. It looks like that data is maybe 8 or so games out of date, but considering how well the Heat have played lately with Alonzo in the game, it would probably be even better right now. Also, if you look at the Heat with Shaq and without Wade, they have scored less than opponents, which suggests Wade (as opposed to Shaq) is the player that makes the team great. Yes, the Heat had a slow start to begin the season, but it was because they were a poor team when Wade was sitting on the bench instead of on the court Overall, the Heat are +9.5/100 poss with Wade, which compares well with anyone in the league. And unlike with Nash (-0.4), Nowitzki (+1.7), and Parker (+2.0), the Heat have been significantly worse than opponents with Wade off the court (-7.0). I think Wade has as good a case for MVP as any. He probably won't get it, because there's still too wide a perception that Shaq is the best player on the team. Another reason is that he'll be considered too young. Jordan, Bird, and Magic all needed several years before they got their MVP; so why should Wade get one in his third? Both these reasons are bogus, of course, but it will probably factor in heavily in the voting. That, and the media's love affair with Steve Nash.
How is Wades situation like that of Chauncy Billups and Detroit. In Detroit you could argue for any one of them being the best player. In Miami it's Shaq or Wade and I think this season Wade has definetly been the better player especially with Shaq missing 18 games. KB8 According to your logic Wade shouldnt be MVP because of his supporting cast? How about Magic Johnson in the 80s? He had Kareem Abdul Jabbar, James Worthy, and all them where their whole starting line-up could've been an all-star. I think Magic was deserving of those MVPs and I think Wade is as deserving as anybody.
^^ Great point Deisel, also Durvasa had some good stats but I agree Nash is the front runner but Kobe is not on the same level for the considerations as Wade, Nash, Dirk, or even Elton Brand IMO.
Tight race this year for the MVP. Remember the NBA MVP award doesnt get awarded until the playoffs are well underway.It all depends on how these guys and their teams finish the season. My two cents... 1- Nash 2- Wade 3- Nowitzki 4- Kobe 5- Lebron 6- Elton Brand 7- Shawn Marion 8- Paul Pierce Billups gets votes stolen from his own teammate Rip Hamilton. They are both deserving, but their numbers arent up there with the rest of the MVP candidates. If Wade keeps up his recent numbers he will surely be up there for MVP honors. He is clearly the leader of the Heat and is carrying them just about every game. Nothing in the stat book shows how CLUTCH he is. What Nash is doing in Phoenix is Amazing considering he is playing with almost an entirely new team around him. It would not surprise me if he wins it again. I can't see Kobe winning it unless the Lakers go on a big winning streak into the playoffs. I don't believe he makes his teammates better than Wade or obviously Nash. Simply too many shots and not enough play along with his teammates. 39 Shots taken tonight. Kobe and Lamar Odom should be one of the top duos in the NBA. Instead Lamar is just another player waiting to see what kind of game Kobe wants to play on a given night. Kobe Bryant is the most talented player in the world. No debate about it. But he doesnt trust enough in his teammates and is a one man crew. It's hard to hate on Kobe because he is so ridiculously good, but I would not chose him over Nash. Lebron has the numbers to win MVP just about any year. His team is a bit inconsistent but it's rarely Lebron's fault. Will definitely get votes.
Nice list Heatfan, the only changes I would make is swapping Dirk to #2 and moving Wade to #3. I'd also have Billups ahead of Pierce and Marion. I know PSquared has been coming on strong, but his team is under .500 and not even in the playoffs at this point.
Pierce is a all star calibur player, but since they arent winning he doesnt get consideration. Yet hes one of the best in the league over all game wise and doesnt get much credit. If they were winning or even if they are gonna make the playoffs i would vote for him. If I voted now my mvp would be Wade because shaq hasnt played well this year because he is gettind older. Theres been no real consistent player on the heat other than Wade. Walker has struggled to find his place on the team, J-Will is inconsistent, and Payton is just getting old. I could vote for Kobe, but hes just like Pierce, except Kobes team has a fairly better record.
I think Wade is more of a second half MVP then a whole season one. The streak Miami has had is because of him and Shaq, but it`s too late for Wade to have any MVP honors.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Soft Parade:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Wade is more of a second half MVP then a whole season one. The streak Miami has had is because of him and Shaq, but it`s too late for Wade to have any MVP honors.</div> Good point, and just to add to it, the Heat are 9-10 without Shaq on the court.
Yeah that 9-10 record without Shaq just completely ruins his shot at MVP IMO. I gotta say Nash is the favorite again, but I'm not sure why, but I have a problem with having Nash have more MVPs than guys like Barkly, Shaq, etc. AND the fact is that he is atrocious on defense. The MVP race really is up for grabs this year. I can't say I recall a year like this. Last year Nash was the easy choice, but Shaq was making some noise as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Diesel:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah that 9-10 record without Shaq just completely ruins his shot at MVP IMO. I gotta say Nash is the favorite again, but I'm not sure why, but I have a problem with having Nash have more MVPs than guys like Barkly, Shaq, etc. AND the fact is that he is atrocious on defense. The MVP race really is up for grabs this year. I can't say I recall a year like this. Last year Nash was the easy choice, but Shaq was making some noise as well.</div> Would the Suns record be better than 9-10 if Marion missed 19 games? I'm not so sure ...
