Who are the top ten superstars in the league today?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Lebron, no max contract, Wade, no max contract. Duncan is not the most marketable guy out there, Nash is a superstar that isn't really a first option scorer on his team. Kidd has been a superstar and has never been a first option guy.

Carmelo Anthony, no max contract. Then you also put Ben Wallace in the HM list, who is not a first option, doesn't have a max contract, and isn't a Top NBA talent. At least be consistent with your idea of what a superstar is.

Being a superstar is not dictated by previous All-Star selections. Brand just moved up to that level this year, so of course he doesn't have previous All-Star selections, why does that matter. He's a superstar player right now.

About trading, most teams wouldn't trade any of those guys for each other. The Clippers aren't likely to trade Brand for anyone except maybe a Wade or Lebron who is young, but that obviously doesn't work and wouldn't happen. Duncan and KG are nice, but have like 3 years on Brand age wise.

Clippers definately would not trade Brand for Shaq.

Also saying Dirk who is an MVP candidate and has been an All-Star for who knows how long is not a superstar, and then guys like Yao [who is good], Iverson, Nash, and Tmac are is dumb. Not that they're bad players, but what margin do they have on Dirk to warrant such a claim?</div>
Okay, you certainly off the mark. Read it carefully! These four aspects: market value, talent level, first option on their respective team, max contract, and fan favorite. All the guys on my list have it!

First of, about the market value aspect, I'm talking about the NBA market value. You put Duncan in the market, and at least 29 teams out there will want him. Also Duncan is not a market guy and Brand is?

Second, about max contract. Wade, Lebrone, Melo, doesn't have a max contract yet but you telling me they won't have it in a couple of years after their contract expires? These guys certainly going to have a max contract within one or two years.

Third, about 1st option. 1st option is not necessarily about scoring! Let me remind you what a 1st option really is. A 1st option guy is a guy who will get the ball for the majority of times during the course of the game, especially the fourth quarter. Jason Kidd may be a 1st option guy, even with Carter as his sidekick and he's a superstar, just not in the top 10 lists. He's moving down due to Nash's recent success, so as Carters because of Wade and Lebrone.

AND where did you get the idea that I said Ben Wallace is a superstar, let alone in my top 10 list anyway? Also admit to yourself, if you're a GM of the Clippers, would you trade those guys on my lists for Brand? C'com man, Brand is a Clippers' favorite, but that doesn't mean they won't trade him for a chance to win a title or become a more successful team with the guys on my list.

I must have admit Brand is really producing at superstar level of production but that doesn't define anything. The Clippers woudnl't enjoy their success without the presense of Sam Cassel. When all set and done, Brand is not a superstar and he won't ever be until he does something in the magnitude of the guys on my lists did.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Second, about max contract. Wade, Lebrone, Melo, doesn't have a max contract yet but you telling me they won't have it in a couple of years after their contract expires? These guys certainly going to have a max contract within one or two years.</div>
Specificity is a great thing. I knew you would reply with this, but answer me, do they currently have max contracts? No, okay, your post clearly said to have one

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Third, about 1st option. 1st option is not necessarily about scoring! Let me remind you what a 1st option really is. A 1st option guy is a guy who will get the ball for the majority of times during the course of the game, especially the fourth quarter. Jason Kidd may be a 1st option guy, even with Carter as his sidekick and he's a superstar, just not in the top 10 lists. He's moving down due to Nash's recent success, so as Carters because of Wade and Lebrone.</div>
Are you serious? I would've never know. Please, I'm not an idiot here. Nash is the first option offensively right now, with Amare, he was not, but he was still a superstar. Kidd is definately not the first option in New Jersey, their's no questioning it even, it's definately Carter.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">AND where did you get the idea that I said Ben Wallace is a superstar, let alone in my top 10 list anyway? Also admit to yourself, if you're a GM of the Clippers, would you trade those guys on my lists for Brand? C'com man, Brand is a Clippers' favorite, but that doesn't mean they won't trade him for a chance to win a title or become a more successful team with the guys on my list.</div>
Sorry, he was mentioned in your list of guys who are All-Stars and not superstars, I thought that was some HM list or something. And Dirk, I still don't get how he's supposedly not a superstar.

Like I said, depends on the guy, the Clippers wouldn't trade Brand for Tmac, Iverson, Nash, or Shaq. The other guys yes, though right now, probably not KG either, he's a better player, but older, and isn't winning right now. We have seen what he can do when he actually has decent players though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I must have admit Brand is really producing at superstar level of production but that doesn't define anything. The Clippers woudnl't enjoy their success without the presense of Sam Cassel. When all set and done, Brand is not a superstar and he won't ever be until he does something in the magnitude of the guys on my lists did. </div>
He doesn't have to since half of the guys on the list haven't accomplished anything. Yao, Tmac, Lebron, are guys who have yet to do anything note worthy in their careers.

 

1. Allen Iverson

 

1. Allen iverson
2. Kobe
3. Dwayne wade
4.Lebron
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Paul Pierce
7. Tracy Mcgrady
8. Shaq
9. Yao
10. Chris Bosh

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you serious? I would've never know. Please, I'm not an idiot here. Nash is the first option offensively right now, with Amare, he was not, but he was still a superstar. Kidd is definately not the first option in New Jersey, their's no questioning it even, it's definately Carter. </div>
Well I know you're not an idiot, but by saying Nash is not the first option on his team basically qualify you to be one period! Shall I give you a small trivia question? Who is the MVP of the Phoenix last year, let alone the MVP of the league?
A. Amare Stourdamire
B. Shawn Marion
C. Steve Nash
D. None of the above
What is your answer hmmm? It is clearly Nash is their first option, the leader of the team, the most important player on that team, and the reason the Suns is so successful thus far. You take Amare out, the Suns still leading the Pacific division. But if you take Nash out, chance is the Suns probably getting the 6th or 7th seed at best. AND once again, Kidd also is the first option of the Nets. The Nets will gladly trade Carter for a marquee low post player like KG, O'Neal, even Brand for Carter but they will never trade Jason Kidd. He is their francise player, their leader, in a similar scenerio like Steve Nash, and that is a fact. FACE IT Carter's fan OG15!

I'm sorry but you doesn't seem to know a lot of basketball, and be careful with what you're saying next time

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, he was mentioned in your list of guys who are All-Stars and not superstars, I thought that was some HM list or something. And Dirk, I still don't get how he's supposedly not a superstar.</div>
Dirk may be a superstar or semi-superstar but he's not in my top 10 lists. He haven't accomplish anything amazing like never even in the starting lineup at the ASG, haven't yet win any award, and NOT even in the All NBA 1st team in his career yet.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said, depends on the guy, the Clippers wouldn't trade Brand for Tmac, Iverson, Nash, or Shaq. The other guys yes, though right now, probably not KG either, he's a better player, but older, and isn't winning right now. We have seen what he can do when he actually has decent players though.</div>
HAHA, the Clippers will be dumb if they don't trade Brand for these guys. These guys are marguee player, and they can bring success and marketing to any team they go to. Brand is a great talent player but he doesn't have the market value like these guys. Ah man...you're a wacko. I totallly understand you, Clippers' fan but be real man...You'll get fire within 1 month if you're a GM of the Clippers

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He doesn't have to since half of the guys on the list haven't accomplished anything. Yao, Tmac, Lebron, are guys who have yet to do anything note worthy in their careers.</div>
Okay, I officially declare you're the MDP (Most Dumbest Person). Yao is an all-star since he steps into the league. It might be the hype but he is certainly showing why he's the francise player of the Houston, NOT even Tmac! As for Tmac, he accomplished more than Brand did. He is a 7 times all-star, win multiple scoring titles, one of the NBA most explosive player, and 2 or 3 selections to the All NBA 1st team. Lebron, what can I say? The GUY is only 21 years old for god sake! and he flirting around with a tripple double every game he's playing. He sure is going to be select in the All NBA 1st team this year, to go along with Kobe, Nash, Duncan, Dirk. Sorry but no Brand
Does this accomplishments sound attractive to you?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I officially declare you're the MDP (Most Dumbest Person). </div>

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I know you're not an idiot, but by saying Nash is not the first option on his team basically qualify you to be one period! Shall I give you a small trivia question? Who is the MVP of the Phoenix last year, let alone the MVP of the league?
A. Amare Stourdamire
B. Shawn Marion
C. Steve Nash
D. None of the above
What is your answer hmmm? It is clearly Nash is their first option, the leader of the team, the most important player on that team, and the reason the Suns is so successful thus far. You take Amare out, the Suns still leading the Pacific division. But if you take Nash out, chance is the Suns probably getting the 6th or 7th seed at best. AND once again, Kidd also is the first option of the Nets. The Nets will gladly trade Carter for a marquee low post player like KG, O'Neal, even Brand for Carter but they will never trade Jason Kidd. He is their francise player, their leader, in a similar scenerio like Steve Nash, and that is a fact. FACE IT Carter's fan OG15!

I'm sorry but you doesn't seem to know a lot of basketball, and be careful with what you're saying next time </div>
Nash was not the first option last season, didn't I clearly say he is this season? Now, was Nash a "superstar" last season? Yes, but he was not a first option. I don't know how anyone can argue this. Saying MVP etc etc makes him a first option is not true. You don't have to be a first option offensive player to be MVP, and you don't have to be a leader to be a first option. Sam Cassell was the leader on the Wolves not KG, but that didn't make him the first option. First option and leadership don't have to go hand in hand.

The Nets were already considering trading Kidd. The fact that they would trade Carter for KG or any other good big man does not make him less of a first option. When the Nets need a basket, they go to Carter, most of the time when the Net's want the guys to rest, they put Carter on with the bench guys. Do you even understand what a first option offensive player is? Do you even watch the Nets play? Right now, the Net's don't have a true "franchise player", their most valuable guy is RJ value and trade wise, not Kidd or Carter. They would trade Kidd for the right player as easily as they would Carter. Also don't be childish, this Carter's fan OG15 nonsense, I'm not 10 years old to start using petty things as an argument.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dirk may be a superstar or semi-superstar but he's not in my top 10 lists. He haven't accomplish anything amazing like never even in the starting lineup at the ASG, haven't yet win any award, and NOT even in the All NBA 1st team in his career yet. </div>
Please don't talk about All-Star starters anymore, their's no one that uses that to quantify a players value, and anyone that does needs to check what on court value really is.

Secondly, don't say what you don't know, Dirk was on the All-NBA first team last season. It's so funny how you want to talk of accomplishments yet are so inconsistent.

<u>Dirk</u>
5 time All-Star
1 All NBA First Team
Conference Finals
3 55+ Win seasons
2 60+ win seasons and on pace for one more
High in MVP voting this season


<u>Lebron</u>
2 time All-Star
Only about to make first playoff appearance
High in MVP voting this season

<u>Yao</u>
3 time All-Star
1 50 win season

I guess in your world, being an All-Star starter twice in a popularity contest as opposed to coming off the bench 5 times while still being an All-Star, beats an All-NBA first team appearance, 2 All-NBA 2nd teams, 2 All-NBA 3rd team appearances, multiple playoff appearances, and constant 50 win seasons, yea, okay, you keep thinking that.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">HAHA, the Clippers will be dumb if they don't trade Brand for these guys. These guys are marguee player, and they can bring success and marketing to any team they go to. Brand is a great talent player but he doesn't have the market value like these guys. Ah man...you're a wacko. I totallly understand you, Clippers' fan but be real man...You'll get fire within 1 month if you're a GM of the Clippers </div>
Anyways, the Clippers would not trade Brand for any of those guys except KG, like I said, but they would have to think about that, not from a talent standpoint, but chemistry. Since KG has already played with Sam though, it's a possibility, but age is also a factor, Brand is 3 years younger.

Tmac has chronic back injuries and can't stay on the floor, he wouldn't win you more games alone than Brand would.

Iverson is 30 turning 31, and wouldn't win you more games than Brand. He can't even stay much above .500 in the East while not having a bad team at all. The Clippers last season even with all the injuries would've been a playoff team in the East, they were 20-10 vs East [.667%], a pace for 55 wins. This season, they're again 20-10 against the East.

Nash is nice, but you need the right pieces around him to compliment his game, and also the right playing system. He's also older than Brand and doesn't give the Clippers any gurantee in their system.

Shaq is nice too, has good impact, but he can't stay on the floor, isn't going to produce more than Brand at this age, makes twice as much, and is 7 years older. Shaq won't make the current Clipper team without Brand contenders, and he can't carry a team at this age for a whole season. He also has few years left in him, this one wouldn't even be thought of, the Clippers would have him for like 2 years, do nothing, then have their future gone.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I officially declare you're the MDP (Most Dumbest Person). Yao is an all-star since he steps into the league. It might be the hype but he is certainly showing why he's the francise player of the Houston, NOT even Tmac! As for Tmac, he accomplished more than Brand did. He is a 7 times all-star, win multiple scoring titles, one of the NBA most explosive player, and 2 or 3 selections to the All NBA 1st team. Lebron, what can I say? The GUY is only 21 years old for god sake! and he flirting around with a tripple double every game he's playing. He sure is going to be select in the All NBA 1st team this year, to go along with Kobe, Nash, Duncan, Dirk. Sorry but no Brand
Does this accomplishments sound attractive to you? </div>
Who said Yao isn't nice, you're not even making an argument. Brand is also the franchise player on the Clippers, it's good Yao is one too. All-Star games again is your argument, as everyone but you knows, that's a weak argument especially in the context you use it. If Brand was listed as a C, he would've been in All-Star games, if he was Chinese, he'd even be a starter, WOW. Let's get off the All-Star game nonsense, please, Grant Hill was a starter last season for crying out loud. Injured players get more votes than guys who are having spectacular seasons.

When I say "accomplished anything", I'm talking about things like getting past the first round, for Lebron, even making the playoffs. MVP's, All-NBA first teams, All-NBA defensive teams, being up there in MVP voting, advancing in the playoffs, winning a lot of games, those are acceptable accoplishment. When I say noteworthy, then it get's to things like MVP's, Championships, winning a lot of games every year, All-NBA selections, and definately not All-Star games. Yao has All-Star games, that's all. Lebron has All-Star games, and an All-NBA 2nd team selecion. Tmac at least has real accomplishments, an All-NBA first team selection, two 2nd teams, and one 3rd team. He was also high in MVP voting in 2 years. Scoring titles are not really considered an NBA award. Tmac also has an MIP award, and Brand was ROY, those are just accolades.

I did not say, or imply that Brand has accomplished more. Your argument was that Brand needs to accomplish as much as these guys, but these said guys have hardly accomplished much, so thats a very weak argument in this case. If we're talking Tim Duncan, Nash, KG, Iverson, Shaq, etc, but please, a guy that is a great player and young, but just making his first playoffs, doesn't have any first teams or MVP's hasn't accomplished anything yet outside of the statistical prowess. We're also talking about right now, Brand was not a superstar in previous years, he was not even this good in previous seasons. Anyone that's watched him knows his game has improved a lot from last season, and having a good team now doesn't hurt.

Also like I posted before, compared to Dirk, none of these guys have really accomplished more. He has had good teams, which obviously helps, but he's been 50+ wins every year for a while now, constant All-Star [about everyone knows if it was up to the coaches he would've started this season], All-NBA First team, 2 All-NBA Second Team, 2 All-NBA Third Team, high in MVP votings.

About Lebron too, don't think I'm trying to say Brand should be over him, my argument is not about him being over him. The argument is that you saying Brand needs to accomplish as much as them when they're low in the barrell of accomplisments [Tmac is in the middle], is not a valid argument. Also you're overall criteria does not match all your players, both Shaq and Wade are on there, yet the player has to be a first option on his team? They're both the first option?

Wow, I didn't even realize, but it just got worse. You have JO in there over Dirk and Brand too, I didn't realize you have both Shaq, and O'neal, I thought O'neal was Shaq. Please tell me how JO is more of a superstar than Dirk? Is it some nonsense All-Star game argument? The guy had one good year where he was in MVP talks, outside of that, 2 All-NBA 3rd teams and 1 All-NBA 2nd team, yea. Brand is better than JO, I thought he was better last season too. JO's only advantage over Brand has been more playing on a more talented team, and also in the East.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash was not the first option last season, didn't I clearly say he is this season? Now, was Nash a "superstar" last season? Yes, but he was not a first option. I don't know how anyone can argue this. Saying MVP etc etc makes him a first option is not true. You don't have to be a first option offensive player to be MVP, and you don't have to be a leader to be a first option. Sam Cassell was the leader on the Wolves not KG, but that didn't make him the first option. First option and leadership don't have to go hand in hand. </div>
No you're wrong, when saying a first option guy, you need to take the overall into account: leadership, scoring, team play, running the offense, etc...and THAT clearly shows Nash is their first option. The Suns running their offense through Nash and that's a fact. The style obviously suits Nash and it makes Nash and other guys benefiting from each other through their system of offense. Last year, this year, it's Nash's team. But if you just talking about scoring as the first option, then I must say it's Amare. He's their best scoring threat, but like you say, scoring doesn't make you a first option guy.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Nets were already considering trading Kidd. The fact that they would trade Carter for KG or any other good big man does not make him less of a first option. When the Nets need a basket, they go to Carter, most of the time when the Net's want the guys to rest, they put Carter on with the bench guys. Do you even understand what a first option offensive player is? Do you even watch the Nets play? Right now, the Net's don't have a true "franchise player", their most valuable guy is RJ value and trade wise, not Kidd or Carter. They would trade Kidd for the right player as easily as they would Carter. Also don't be childish, this Carter's fan OG15 nonsense, I'm not 10 years old to start using petty things as an argument. </div>
Once again, you take scoring as your definition of a first option guy. No no no, you get it all wrong! First option doesn't always be "scoring", it must be leadership, team play, and Kidd, just like Nash, is doing that obviously. Kidd is the guy who setting up the play for Carter or Jefferson to be the hero. In fact, I believe the Nets running their offense through Kidd, maybe you can clarify that?

Kidd is their most important player, francise player of that team. My point is if teams like Minnesota, Indiana, or San Anotonio, where they will trade KG, TD, JO, for only either Carter or Kidd, but the Nets have to choose between the two. I would say it's Carter go, Kidd stay! Omg, I can't believe you're a Nets fan, especially Carter's fan and didn't realize this. saddd


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Please don't talk about All-Star starters anymore, their's no one that uses that to quantify a players value, and anyone that does needs to check what on court value really is.

Secondly, don't say what you don't know, Dirk was on the All-NBA first team last season. It's so funny how you want to talk of accomplishments yet are so inconsistent.

<u>Dirk</u>
5 time All-Star
1 All NBA First Team
Conference Finals
3 55+ Win seasons
2 60+ win seasons and on pace for one more
High in MVP voting this season


<u>Lebron</u>
2 time All-Star
Only about to make first playoff appearance
High in MVP voting this season

<u>Yao</u>
3 time All-Star
1 50 win season

I guess in your world, being an All-Star starter twice in a popularity contest as opposed to coming off the bench 5 times while still being an All-Star, beats an All-NBA first team appearance, 2 All-NBA 2nd teams, 2 All-NBA 3rd team appearances, multiple playoff appearances, and constant 50 win seasons, yea, okay, you keep thinking that.</div>
ASG is the good way to measure a player's career and accomplishment, you can ask any players, I bet most of them say the same. Everybody want to be in the ASG, but not everybody can! Okay, I must admitted that I didn't know who's on the 1st Team last year because I didn't care much considering Kobe injured for the majority of the whole season. Did I say Dirk isn't a Superstar? But to be in my list, he gotta do more than that? he's probably right there at number #11 on my list but noway. 3 55+ Win seasons, 2 60+ win seasons, MVP candidate, etc..that is impressive but he never get his team pass the 2nd round! WOW!

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways, the Clippers would not trade Brand for any of those guys except KG, like I said, but they would have to think about that, not from a talent standpoint, but chemistry. Since KG has already played with Sam though, it's a possibility, but age is also a factor, Brand is 3 years younger.

Tmac has chronic back injuries and can't stay on the floor, he wouldn't win you more games alone than Brand would.

Iverson is 30 turning 31, and wouldn't win you more games than Brand. He can't even stay much above .500 in the East while not having a bad team at all. The Clippers last season even with all the injuries would've been a playoff team in the East, they were 20-10 vs East [.667%], a pace for 55 wins. This season, they're again 20-10 against the East.

Nash is nice, but you need the right pieces around him to compliment his game, and also the right playing system. He's also older than Brand and doesn't give the Clippers any gurantee in their system.

Shaq is nice too, has good impact, but he can't stay on the floor, isn't going to produce more than Brand at this age, makes twice as much, and is 7 years older. Shaq won't make the current Clipper team without Brand contenders, and he can't carry a team at this age for a whole season. He also has few years left in him, this one wouldn't even be thought of, the Clippers would have him for like 2 years, do nothing, then have their future gone.



Who said Yao isn't nice, you're not even making an argument. Brand is also the franchise player on the Clippers, it's good Yao is one too. All-Star games again is your argument, as everyone but you knows, that's a weak argument especially in the context you use it. If Brand was listed as a C, he would've been in All-Star games, if he was Chinese, he'd even be a starter, WOW. Let's get off the All-Star game nonsense, please, Grant Hill was a starter last season for crying out loud. Injured players get more votes than guys who are having spectacular seasons.</div>
Wow, Brand, 1 good season, suddenly make him a superstar, is that what you're trying to say? C'com here, Brand's sucess is because of Sam Casel. We all know what Sam can bring to the team. Withou Sam, brand never prove he can take his team to the playoff, KG does, Nash does, Tmac does, James does, and basically every guys on my list does except Brand.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
When I say "accomplished anything", I'm talking about things like getting past the first round, for Lebron, even making the playoffs. MVP's, All-NBA first teams, All-NBA defensive teams, being up there in MVP voting, advancing in the playoffs, winning a lot of games, those are acceptable accoplishment. When I say noteworthy, then it get's to things like MVP's, Championships, winning a lot of games every year, All-NBA selections, and definately not All-Star games. Yao has All-Star games, that's all. Lebron has All-Star games, and an All-NBA 2nd team selecion. Tmac at least has real accomplishments, an All-NBA first team selection, two 2nd teams, and one 3rd team. He was also high in MVP voting in 2 years. Scoring titles are not really considered an NBA award. Tmac also has an MIP award, and Brand was ROY, those are just accolades.

I did not say, or imply that Brand has accomplished more. Your argument was that Brand needs to accomplish as much as these guys, but these said guys have hardly accomplished much, so thats a very weak argument in this case. If we're talking Tim Duncan, Nash, KG, Iverson, Shaq, etc, but please, a guy that is a great player and young, but just making his first playoffs, doesn't have any first teams or MVP's hasn't accomplished anything yet outside of the statistical prowess. We're also talking about right now, Brand was not a superstar in previous years, he was not even this good in previous seasons. Anyone that's watched him knows his game has improved a lot from last season, and having a good team now doesn't hurt.

Also like I posted before, compared to Dirk, none of these guys have really accomplished more. He has had good teams, which obviously helps, but he's been 50+ wins every year for a while now, constant All-Star [about everyone knows if it was up to the coaches he would've started this season], All-NBA First team, 2 All-NBA Second Team, 2 All-NBA Third Team, high in MVP votings.

About Lebron too, don't think I'm trying to say Brand should be over him, my argument is not about him being over him. The argument is that you saying Brand needs to accomplish as much as them when they're low in the barrell of accomplisments [Tmac is in the middle], is not a valid argument. Also you're overall criteria does not match all your players, both Shaq and Wade are on there, yet the player has to be a first option on his team? They're both the first option?</div>
Oh pleasezzz! James doesn't accomplish anything? Do you know how old is he? Do you even know what he did in his Rookie year? JEez...for a guy who is only 21 years old, and do what he did is amazing. When his career is over, he will accomplish more than Brand, Dirk, or anybody else except maybe Kobe. . If Tmac, Yao, James, isn't on the top 10 superstars, then who is? Brand? 2 Wallace? Dirk? or........VC? hmm....did they accomplish anything either, except maybe Dirk (he's on a good team throughout his career!)

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I didn't even realize, but it just got worse. You have JO in there over Dirk and Brand too, I didn't realize you have both Shaq, and O'neal, I thought O'neal was Shaq. Please tell me how JO is more of a superstar than Dirk? Is it some nonsense All-Star game argument? The guy had one good year where he was in MVP talks, outside of that, 2 All-NBA 3rd teams and 1 All-NBA 2nd team, yea. Brand is better than JO, I thought he was better last season too. JO's only advantage over Brand has been more playing on a more talented team, and also in the East.</div>
Haha, now you really telling me that you deserving the MDP award. JO, when he isn't injured, is one of the top player in the league! He's a superstar, he takes his team to the Eastern Conference Final, he's on the 1st all nba team once i believe, and multiple ASG appearances, defensive all 1st team, etc...Did Brand accomplish any of that? No, not until THIS YEAR! And did Dirk plays any defense? C'com, you put JO with the Mav, and you can talk about championship because JO can bring them offense plus defense. Dirk only bring you offense period! and don't even question about JO being better than Dirk and Brand period!

okay, we getting off the point. Why we arguing with this, it is obviously that you got mad because I didn't put VC in my list? Okay, there's at least 15-20 superstars in the NBA, and if you narrow it down to top 10, it is not EASY. Of course, somebody going to be left off, and hey I think my list is consistent and not bs like other base on just.......their favorite player. I like VC, Brand, Dirk too, but they doesn't deserve to be in the top 10.

By the way, the starter for the ASG is a popularity contest but that is how you define a superstar. A superstar is a popularity contest too anyway. Every players can be a superstar, but you need to be popular to be a superstar, just like Gilbert Arenas said during the ASG, something like "you need to be on national tv alot to be consider a superstar".

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No you're wrong, when saying a first option guy, you need to take the overall into account: leadership, scoring, team play, running the offense, etc...and THAT clearly shows Nash is their first option. The Suns running their offense through Nash and that's a fact. The style obviously suits Nash and it makes Nash and other guys benefiting from each other through their system of offense. Last year, this year, it's Nash's team. But if you just talking about scoring as the first option, then I must say it's Amare. He's their best scoring threat, but like you say, scoring doesn't make you a first option guy.</div>
Being a first option and being a leader is not the same thing. I guess you've never heard of the teams where they have an old veteran guy who is the leader on the team. You don't have to be the leader on the team to be a first option. PJ Brown is the leader on New Orleans, but I think we'd all agree that Chris Paul is easily the first option offensively.

Vince was the first option on Toronto for a while, but the leaders on the team were Oakley, Antonio Davis, Willis.

When I say scoring doesn't make you a first option, I'm talking about a situation like Marion's. Marion can score, always could, but he was never a pound the ball on the floor and make things happen guy, he's an oppurtunistic scorer. Marion is not a first option on offense, he's not a guy you give the ball to and tell to make something happen.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again, you take scoring as your definition of a first option guy. No no no, you get it all wrong! First option doesn't always be "scoring", it must be leadership, team play, and Kidd, just like Nash, is doing that obviously. Kidd is the guy who setting up the play for Carter or Jefferson to be the hero. In fact, I believe the Nets running their offense through Kidd, maybe you can clarify that?

Kidd is their most important player, francise player of that team. My point is if teams like Minnesota, Indiana, or San Anotonio, where they will trade KG, TD, JO, for only either Carter or Kidd, but the Nets have to choose between the two. I would say it's Carter go, Kidd stay! Omg, I can't believe you're a Nets fan, especially Carter's fan and didn't realize this. saddd</div>
No, they run their offense mostly through Carter. If the guy leading the team in assists was always the first option, then almost every PG would be the first option on his team. The offense is ran through all the guys, but Vince more than the other 2.

I'm not a Net's fan, and I don't know what the significance of that is at all? lol, you have this weird random comments thing going on.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ASG is the good way to measure a player's career and accomplishment, you can ask any players, I bet most of them say the same. Everybody want to be in the ASG, but not everybody can! Okay, I must admitted that I didn't know who's on the 1st Team last year because I didn't care much considering Kobe injured for the majority of the whole season. Did I say Dirk isn't a Superstar? But to be in my list, he gotta do more than that? he's probably right there at number #11 on my list but noway. 3 55+ Win seasons, 2 60+ win seasons, MVP candidate, etc..that is impressive but he never get his team pass the 2nd round! WOW!</div>
You sure you read the post properly? I said ALL-STAR STARTERS. Making the All-Star game is an accomplisment, but your argument is starting in the All-Star game which is voted by the fans. Their is 0 significance in that, being picked by the coaches is actually more noteworthy than being picked by the fans right now. I mean with your logic rookie Yao had an edge on Shaq because he started in the All-Star game, yea, right....

You're All-Star game starting would also actually support Vince being a superstar since he started for how many years now, 5 or 6?

Dirk has gotten past the second round 4 times, he also went to the conference finals one year losing 4-2. Do you just say random things or where did you get him not passing the first round from?

To quote you:
<font color=""Red"">"Arenas, Pierce, Melo, Wallace, Nowitzki, Stoudamire, etc... are all All-Stars player, NOT Superstars yet. None of them ever start in an ASG."</font>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, Brand, 1 good season, suddenly make him a superstar, is that what you're trying to say? C'com here, Brand's sucess is because of Sam Casel. We all know what Sam can bring to the team. Withou Sam, brand never prove he can take his team to the playoff, KG does, Nash does, Tmac does, James does, and basically every guys on my list does except Brand.
</div>
I can't debate with you because you're too factless, and you condradict yourself too much. You're saying only one good season for Brand, but what has Lebron had? Multiple good seasons? Numbers wise he was good last season, but a second half breakdown and no playoffs is not that impressive. This will be his first year making the playoffs. Brand in terms of individual numbers has been a 20 PPG | 10 RPG | 2-3 APG | 2 BPG his whole career if we're talking numbers. James will be taking his team to the playoffs for the first time. Did you ignore the clear facts. In the last 2 years, the Clippers are a combined 40-20 against the East. Last year with multiple injuries, they were 20-10 [.667%] against the East, nothing more needs to be said about how Brand would win in the East. Let me give you an approx, an Eastern team plays ~63.4% of their games against the East, which would be 52 games. At .667% that's 35-17. The other 30 games would be against the West who the Clippers were 17-35 [.327%] against so that would be 10-20. So in an injury ridden season, the Clippers would've been about a 45-37 team in the East last season, and Brand wasn't even as good offensively then.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh pleasezzz! James doesn't accomplish anything? Do you know how old is he? Do you even know what he did in his Rookie year? JEez...for a guy who is only 21 years old, and do what he did is amazing. When his career is over, he will accomplish more than Brand, Dirk, or anybody else except maybe Kobe. . If Tmac, Yao, James, isn't on the top 10 superstars, then who is? Brand? 2 Wallace? Dirk? or........VC? hmm....did they accomplish anything either, except maybe Dirk (he's on a good team throughout his career!)</div>
Being a superstar isn't about how young you are when you have your accomplishments. How old Lebron is does not give him any more merit in the argument, and I'm not even arguing that he's not a superstar. I'm arguing about the inconsistency in your selection process, and how you contradict yourself. No one is arguing about their careers either, this is me countering your post precisely, and I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore. When did I say Lebron will accomplish less in his career, but what does that have to do with who's a superstar this year? Yao is not a higher ranked player than Dirk yet, Dirk is easily a Top 10 player in the league, Yao has only played like that post All-Star break/post getting surgery on his feet. Yao has one thing on Dirk, and that's popularity, Shaq when he's old and less productive will still be more popular than 95% of the guys in the league, but that won't make him a superstar then.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha, now you really telling me that you deserving the MDP award. JO, when he isn't injured, is one of the top player in the league! He's a superstar, he takes his team to the Eastern Conference Final, he's on the 1st all nba team once i believe, and multiple ASG appearances, defensive all 1st team, etc...Did Brand accomplish any of that? No, not until THIS YEAR! And did Dirk plays any defense? C'com, you put JO with the Mav, and you can talk about championship because JO can bring them offense plus defense. Dirk only bring you offense period! and don't even question about JO being better than Dirk and Brand period!</div>
JO is an overatted player. The reason Indiana was so good those years was more Ron Artest and even old Reggie than Jermaine O'neal. Not that he wasn't important, but those guys even more. Jermaine O'neal has been one of the worst offensive PF's the past 3 years. Of course to people who just look at things plainly, 20 PPG looks nice.Then you realize he's a supposedly good big man shooting 43-46% from the field, with a high turnover rate, and weak passing ability. Let me give you some interesting numbers:

<u><font color=""Navy"">Indiana's record with JO:</font></u>
<font color=""navy"">05-06:</font> 20-20
<font color=""navy"">04-05:</font> 23-21

Okay, so this guy is supposed to be the difference maker, yet this season they have a better record without him than they do with him. Last season, they also have a better record without him than with him, and they had all the problems with the suspensions, that's just sad. JO is not a guy that carries teams to the playoffs, he's just a guy posing as that kind of player. JO has produced basically a .500 record the last 2 years when playing.

You really need to stop saying things you don't know, I'm getting embarassed for you. JO has never made any All-Defensive team, he's made 2 All-NBA 3rd teams, and 1 All-NBA 2nd team. Seriously where do you get these things from?


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">okay, we getting off the point. Why we arguing with this, it is obviously that you got mad because I didn't put VC in my list? Okay, there's at least 15-20 superstars in the NBA, and if you narrow it down to top 10, it is not EASY. Of course, somebody going to be left off, and hey I think my list is consistent and not bs like other base on just.......their favorite player. I like VC, Brand, Dirk too, but they doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. </div>
I actually don't think Vince is a Top 10 player in the league, and I actually don't care whether he's in your list or not, I was just using him as an example, so yea, you do realize he isn't even in my list right?

Dirk even, I'm not a fan of Dirk, I'm not arguing for him because I like him, I'm arguing for him because he plainly is a superstar in this league. Their's no way Yao, and even Tmac can be considered a superstar and not him. I think when ranking a superstar, the basketball element should clearly outweigh things that are out of the players control like popularity, that's not what truly makes a superstar basketball player.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By the way, the starter for the ASG is a popularity contest but that is how you define a superstar. A superstar is a popularity contest too anyway. Every players can be a superstar, but you need to be popular to be a superstar, just like Gilbert Arenas said during the ASG, something like "you need to be on national tv alot to be consider a superstar".</div>
So Grant Hill in 04-05 was a superstar because he started in the All-Star game? All-Star starting does not make you a superstar. You're a superstar by how well you produce, how much you've accomplished [to a degree, Olajuwon was not a superstar at 39 even though he accomplished tons in his career] and what you are capable of doing. A guy like Brand has basically had All-Star caliber seasons every year of his career. He's not a guy that just came from nothingness to being good. Him not winning was mostly due to circumstances out of his control, mainly extreme injuries to the team and chemisty/management problems.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Being a first option and being a leader is not the same thing. I guess you've never heard of the teams where they have an old veteran guy who is the leader on the team. You don't have to be the leader on the team to be a first option. PJ Brown is the leader on New Orleans, but I think we'd all agree that Chris Paul is easily the first option offensively.

Vince was the first option on Toronto for a while, but the leaders on the team were Oakley, Antonio Davis, Willis.

When I say scoring doesn't make you a first option, I'm talking about a situation like Marion's. Marion can score, always could, but he was never a pound the ball on the floor and make things happen guy, he's an oppurtunistic scorer. Marion is not a first option on offense, he's not a guy you give the ball to and tell to make something happen.


No, they run their offense mostly through Carter. If the guy leading the team in assists was always the first option, then almost every PG would be the first option on his team. The offense is ran through all the guys, but Vince more than the other 2.

I'm not a Net's fan, and I don't know what the significance of that is at all? lol, you have this weird random comments thing going on.


You sure you read the post properly? I said ALL-STAR STARTERS. Making the All-Star game is an accomplisment, but your argument is starting in the All-Star game which is voted by the fans. Their is 0 significance in that, being picked by the coaches is actually more noteworthy than being picked by the fans right now. I mean with your logic rookie Yao had an edge on Shaq because he started in the All-Star game, yea, right....

You're All-Star game starting would also actually support Vince being a superstar since he started for how many years now, 5 or 6?

Dirk has gotten past the second round 4 times, he also went to the conference finals one year losing 4-2. Do you just say random things or where did you get him not passing the first round from?

To quote you:
<font color=""Red"">"Arenas, Pierce, Melo, Wallace, Nowitzki, Stoudamire, etc... are all All-Stars player, NOT Superstars yet. None of them ever start in an ASG."</font>


I can't debate with you because you're too factless, and you condradict yourself too much. You're saying only one good season for Brand, but what has Lebron had? Multiple good seasons? Numbers wise he was good last season, but a second half breakdown and no playoffs is not that impressive. This will be his first year making the playoffs. Brand in terms of individual numbers has been a 20 PPG | 10 RPG | 2-3 APG | 2 BPG his whole career if we're talking numbers. James will be taking his team to the playoffs for the first time. Did you ignore the clear facts. In the last 2 years, the Clippers are a combined 40-20 against the East. Last year with multiple injuries, they were 20-10 [.667%] against the East, nothing more needs to be said about how Brand would win in the East. Let me give you an approx, an Eastern team plays ~63.4% of their games against the East, which would be 52 games. At .667% that's 35-17. The other 30 games would be against the West who the Clippers were 17-35 [.327%] against so that would be 10-20. So in an injury ridden season, the Clippers would've been about a 45-37 team in the East last season, and Brand wasn't even as good offensively then.



Being a superstar isn't about how young you are when you have your accomplishments. How old Lebron is does not give him any more merit in the argument, and I'm not even arguing that he's not a superstar. I'm arguing about the inconsistency in your selection process, and how you contradict yourself. No one is arguing about their careers either, this is me countering your post precisely, and I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore. When did I say Lebron will accomplish less in his career, but what does that have to do with who's a superstar this year? Yao is not a higher ranked player than Dirk yet, Dirk is easily a Top 10 player in the league, Yao has only played like that post All-Star break/post getting surgery on his feet. Yao has one thing on Dirk, and that's popularity, Shaq when he's old and less productive will still be more popular than 95% of the guys in the league, but that won't make him a superstar then.



JO is an overatted player. The reason Indiana was so good those years was more Ron Artest and even old Reggie than Jermaine O'neal. Not that he wasn't important, but those guys even more. Jermaine O'neal has been one of the worst offensive PF's the past 3 years. Of course to people who just look at things plainly, 20 PPG looks nice.Then you realize he's a supposedly good big man shooting 43-46% from the field, with a high turnover rate, and weak passing ability. Let me give you some interesting numbers:

<u><font color=""Navy"">Indiana's record with JO:</font></u>
<font color=""navy"">05-06:</font> 20-20
<font color=""navy"">04-05:</font> 23-21

Okay, so this guy is supposed to be the difference maker, yet this season they have a better record without him than they do with him. Last season, they also have a better record without him than with him, and they had all the problems with the suspensions, that's just sad. JO is not a guy that carries teams to the playoffs, he's just a guy posing as that kind of player. JO has produced basically a .500 record the last 2 years when playing.

You really need to stop saying things you don't know, I'm getting embarassed for you. JO has never made any All-Defensive team, he's made 2 All-NBA 3rd teams, and 1 All-NBA 2nd team. Seriously where do you get these things from?



I actually don't think Vince is a Top 10 player in the league, and I actually don't care whether he's in your list or not, I was just using him as an example, so yea, you do realize he isn't even in my list right?

Dirk even, I'm not a fan of Dirk, I'm not arguing for him because I like him, I'm arguing for him because he plainly is a superstar in this league. Their's no way Yao, and even Tmac can be considered a superstar and not him. I think when ranking a superstar, the basketball element should clearly outweigh things that are out of the players control like popularity, that's not what truly makes a superstar basketball player.


So Grant Hill in 04-05 was a superstar because he started in the All-Star game? All-Star starting does not make you a superstar. You're a superstar by how well you produce, how much you've accomplished [to a degree, Olajuwon was not a superstar at 39 even though he accomplished tons in his career] and what you are capable of doing. A guy like Brand has basically had All-Star caliber seasons every year of his career. He's not a guy that just came from nothingness to being good. Him not winning was mostly due to circumstances out of his control, mainly extreme injuries to the team and chemisty/management problems.</div>

WATTA, I wrote a bunch of long argument against you and I submited, it appeared there's an error, I click "back", I lost all my writing I'm lazy to type it again, so I'm shorten what I wanna say.

a couple things to say to you:

1. Nash and Kidd is their first option guy because the team is running the offense base on Nash and Kidd's game which is run n gun, fast break type of offense.

2. I never said Dirk never get pass the 1st round, it's the 2nd round. READ IT AGAIN.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">that is impressive but he never get his team pass the 2nd round! WOW!</div> Where did you get the idea he get to the conference final before anyway? His team never does I believe. Throughout his career, it was the Spurs, Lakers, Blazzers, Kings, Sun fighting in the Western Conference Final, not the Mavericks

3. One word, nonsense! You can't take away what James does for the game. He's only 21 and only been in the league for 3 years! His team is in the playoff, Brand's team never proven they can get to the playoff until this year. And it was Sam and Cuttino who help them get there. The Clippers' record against the East is impressive but at the end of the day, where is their team toward a playoff spot (until this year?)?

4. Once again, you're asking me why I take JO over Dirk. Why are you taking his accomplishment as an example of why he's a superstar or not? He's one of the top PF in this league when he wasn't injured. His team wouldnt' go anywhere without him, and Dirk, same case. However I take him just because he plays better at the defensive end than Dirk, a better low post player, and more popular player.

5. ASG starter is how you define who's a top superstar or not. If Dirk is one of the top superstars in this league, he should've at least, be select by FANs to be starter for the ASG. Grant Hill is a superstar last year but not top 10 this year. He's a superstar throughout his career up until his injury.

6. Last is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to know. THIS THREAD stated "Who's the top 10 superstars in the league today", NOT what "Who's the best 10 players in the league today"! Get it straight, my list definitely will be different if the thread states a top 10 players in today game. However, the guy is asking for a top 10 superstars which lead to be debatable, and we all know a supertar is a popularity contest. Like I said earlier, a superstar, you need to have those 4 criterias. And all the players on my lists qualify it, admit you're losing!

 

1). Kobe Bryant
2). Steve Nash
3). Kevin Garnett
4). LeBron James
5). Jason Kidd
6). Dwight Howard
7). Chris Paul
8). Yao Ming
9). Elton Brand or Corey Maggette
10). Micheal Redd

I think Redd is the most underrated SG in the league, he goes unnoticed so much

 

Also what the heck are you guys picking each others comments apart for? Its an OPINION based question, get off each others backs.....

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Nash and Kidd is their first option guy because the team is running the offense base on Nash and Kidd's game which is run n gun, fast break type of offense.</div>
New Jersey doesn't run and gun, they have guys who can finish on the break, but they're a halfcourt team, and their main halfcourt game is to post up Vince and play inside out with him, or give him the ball on the wing. The run and gun style of Phoenix did not just fit Nash, it fit Amare and Marion who were actually considered the main building blocks along with Nash.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Where did you get the idea he get to the conference final before anyway? His team never does I believe. Throughout his career, it was the Spurs, Lakers, Blazzers, Kings, Sun fighting in the Western Conference Final, not the Mavericks </div>
The Mavericks went to the conference finals in 02-03, they beat Portland in the first round, and Sacramento in the second round, both in 7 games, then lost to the Spurs 4-2 in the WCF. These things you can check, don't be stupid and argue something that's a fact, not an assumption.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3. One word, nonsense! You can't take away what James does for the game. He's only 21 and only been in the league for 3 years! His team is in the playoff, Brand's team never proven they can get to the playoff until this year. And it was Sam and Cuttino who help them get there. The Clippers' record against the East is impressive but at the end of the day, where is their team toward a playoff spot (until this year?)?</div>
Again, I'm still not arguing that Lebron is not a superstar because he's easily a superstar and a top player in the game, I'm arguing against your inconsistent selection process. Last year they could've made the playoffs if not for injury. Rick Brunson was playing significant minutes on the team last year at PG, that should say it all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Once again, you're asking me why I take JO over Dirk. Why are you taking his accomplishment as an example of why he's a superstar or not? He's one of the top PF in this league when he wasn't injured. His team wouldnt' go anywhere without him, and Dirk, same case. However I take him just because he plays better at the defensive end than Dirk, a better low post player, and more popular player.</div>
I just posted that JO's team the last 2 years have had a better record without him, and in long stretches, not like those guys who miss 5 games, this is half a season, and your argument is that his team would go nowhere without him? Common, bring something better than that.

Again, this is what I'm saying, you're arguments are contradictory. You're saying it's a lot about popularity, and being a first option. Vince is a first option on his team, he started in the All-Star game for like 6 straight seasons, he's Top 10 in jersey sales almost every year, yet he's not a superstar?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5. ASG starter is how you define who's a top superstar or not. If Dirk is one of the top superstars in this league, he should've at least, be select by FANs to be starter for the ASG. Grant Hill is a superstar last year but not top 10 this year. He's a superstar throughout his career up until his injury.</div>
I think it's relative. I'll show you why. Tmac was normally listed as a G, this season he was moved to F, so this year, KG was not an All-Star starter because of it, now does that actually mean KG became less popular, or is less of a superstar? No.

Vince is normally listed as a F, this year he was moved to G which has Iverson and Wade, so this year, Vince was not voted in as a starter, though he did get to start at F b/c of injury.

Ben Wallace got to start in All-Star games till Shaq came to the East, but now he doesn't any more, but he's still as popular as he was, just has a more popular player in front of him.

Your All-Star starting also depends on who is at your position. If you're in a position with unpopular players, you'll get a lot more votes, and more starts. KG is more popular than JO, but he didn't start in the All-Star game because forward in the West has Duncan, Tmac, Dirk, Brand, Gasol, Carmelo, Marion, Amare etc while in the East their's Lebron the only real competition, then Rasheed, Webber, Tayshaun etc.

In terms of popularity, Dirk and JO are pretty equal. Dirk has been in the Top 10 jersey sales a few times, and they're both in the 15-20 range in jersey sales most of the time. If Dirk was in the East, it's quite possible for him to beat JO in All-Star votes and be the starter.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6. Last is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to know. THIS THREAD stated "Who's the top 10 superstars in the league today", NOT what "Who's the best 10 players in the league today"! Get it straight, my list definitely will be different if the thread states a top 10 players in today game. However, the guy is asking for a top 10 superstars which lead to be debatable, and we all know a supertar is a popularity contest. Like I said earlier, a superstar, you need to have those 4 criterias. And all the players on my lists qualify it, admit you're losing! </div>
I think it's more of us using different definitions. When I look at a superstar on the court, I think of basketball ability as opposed to popular appeal. There are 2 definitions of superstar, one refers to someone who is very skilled in their field which is what I'm going by.

The other is one who is a major attractions, and popular, which is mainly what you're going by. So I'm not wrong in my definition by any means, a superstar can be defined in different wats. If I was to rank on the definition based solely on being a major attraction, then I would rank them like this:


1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Allen Iverson
4) Shaquille O'neal
5) Yao Ming
6) Steve Nash
7) Dwyane Wade/Tracy McGrady
8) Tim Duncan
9) Vince Carter
10) Kevin Garnett

HM: Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Jermaine O'neal, Paul Pierce, Ron Artest, Ben Wallace, Ray Allen

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting daam81:</div><div class="quote_post">No Vince? c'mon....</div>
It's funny how people say that playing in Toronto/Canada means less popularity. That's so not the case with VC, he was the most popular player in the league while he played with Toronto even through the bad years WITHOUT the dunking and highlights..and when he's traded to NJ and returns to the player he used to be, highlights and all, he falls off the map. I don't get it And also, this is the first year Vince wasn't voted in starter for the ASG - his first full year as a Net..

 

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson
3. Steve Nash
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Tim Duncan
7. Tracey McGrady
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Dwayne Wade
10. Chauncy Billups

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting raptors4life:</div><div class="quote_post">It's funny how people say that playing in Toronto/Canada means less popularity. That's so not the case with VC, he was the most popular player in the league while he played with Toronto even through the bad years WITHOUT the dunking and highlights..and when he's traded to NJ and returns to the player he used to be, highlights and all, he falls off the map. I don't get it And also, this is the first year Vince wasn't voted in starter for the ASG - his first full year as a Net..</div>
I think this also had to do with him being moved from guard to F. F's in the East haven't been that great, while at guard he has super popular Iverson, and up and comer Wade. He still got 1 million + votes, but not enough to beat those 2.

 

Top 10 :

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. AI
4. D.Wade
5. Mcgrady / When Healthy
6. Melo
7. Dirk
8. S.Nash
9. VC
10. T.Duncan

HM- R.Allen , KG , SHAQ , Pierce , Arenas , Amare , J.Oneal , Yao .