<div class="quote_poster">Quoting gocelts34:</div><div class="quote_post">Imagine this Florida team with the likes of Matt Walsch and Anthony Roberson, wow. Those two are prolly killing themselves right now as they sit at home, without NBA contracts, knowing that they could have been part of this team.</div> Like Gators said, that exchange was addition by subtraction, and besides, Anthony Roberson does have an NBA contract. He plays for the Memphis Grizzlies. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I seem to remember a poll that had Florida as clear winners as the most over-rated team. Someone here mentioned that the guy who voted for FLA over Duke was "just trying to be different". Are they still, or are y'all just being fickle? j</div> Well, at the time the poll was published, they sure as hell were the most overrated team in the NCAA. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Gators, but if you look at their road to the Final Four, they played a #14 seed, a #11 seed, a #7 seed, and then Villanova, one of the few higher seeded teams in the tournament whose style actually plays right into the Gator's hands. If you gave them the same road to the Final Four as George Mason, I'm confident they wouldn't go as far as they have, or even make it out of the first round. Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from their accomplishment, because regardless of who you play on the road to the Final Four, it still takes some talent to reach that point, but when that poll was published, the Gators hadn't achieved anything to warrant their AP ranking at the time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">We would be sitting at home watching and you would see Matt Walsh crying on the sideline last weekend. Losing them was addition by subtraction. Neither were team players and neither were good defenders.</div> Thats actually what I started to think about after I made the post. Last year Matt Walsch took so many shots, and when he did score, he would just give up a bucket on the other end. So yea your right, addition by subtraction!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting gocelts34:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats actually what I started to think about after I made the post. Last year Matt Walsch took so many shots, and when he did score, he would just give up a bucket on the other end. So yea your right, addition by subtraction!</div> It's fun to think about it for most players/teams and you would think you would be better, but not with these 2. They were both more into their own stats rather than team glory. The only one I wish we could get back is David Lee, he is one guy that really deserved a Final 4 appearance and I'm sad that we got it one year later. He was an unselfish player who was loyal to our school by staying all 4 years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, at the time the poll was published, they sure as hell were the most overrated team in the NCAA. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Gators, but if you look at their road to the Final Four, they played a #14 seed, a #11 seed, a #7 seed, and then Villanova, one of the few higher seeded teams in the tournament whose style actually plays right into the Gator's hands. If you gave them the same road to the Final Four as George Mason, I'm confident they wouldn't go as far as they have, or even make it out of the first round. Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from their accomplishment, because regardless of who you play on the road to the Final Four, it still takes some talent to reach that point, but when that poll was published, the Gators hadn't achieved anything to warrant their AP ranking at the time.</div> I've heard this argument. Sorry, but hogwash. I sincerely like reading your posts Voodoo, but I think you missed it on this one. Let me point out that, first of all, if this tournament has taught us anything, it's that seeds really don't matter much. It's someone's opinion (based largely on stats, but an opinion none-the-less). Stats are for mathmaticians. I see an extremely well balanced team with heart, a very tough interior and a perimeter that will punish you if you don't respect it. Not from a stat sheet. Granted, over the year they've learned how to use it better, but consider this... All year, they never lost a game by more than 6. They pretty much blew everyone else out. They never got beaten, they just lost. I know... strength of schedule, right? UConn lost to a Wade-less Marquette. It happens. Remember, thay lost all their big stars this year. Fact is this... they NEVER were over-rated, just underdeveloped. >j<
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Greazy9:</div><div class="quote_post">I've heard this argument. Sorry, but hogwash. I sincerely like reading your posts Voodoo, but I think you missed it on this one. Let me point out that, first of all, if this tournament has taught us anything, it's that seeds really don't matter much. It's someone's opinion (based largely on stats, but an opinion none-the-less). Stats are for mathmaticians. I see an extremely well balanced team with heart, a very tough interior and a perimeter that will punish you if you don't respect it. Not from a stat sheet. Granted, over the year they've learned how to use it better, but consider this... All year, they never lost a game by more than 6. They pretty much blew everyone else out. They never got beaten, they just lost. I know... strength of schedule, right? UConn lost to a Wade-less Marquette. It happens. Remember, thay lost all their big stars this year. Fact is this... they NEVER were over-rated, just underdeveloped. >j<</div> Regardless of the seeds the teams they played were, they didn't have to play a stretch of games as challenging as the ones that all the other Final Four teams played. That's not even the main point I was trying to make though. The tournament aside, when the poll you were referring to came out, they were overrated. For most of January, they were ranked ahead of the likes of Connecticut, Washington, Illinois, Memphis, Texas, Ohio State, etc. Yes, none of those teams have made it to the Final Four like Florida, but does that mean that Florida's a better team? Of course not. And does that mean they were a better team when this poll came out? Because Florida made the Final Four, they weren't overrated in January when ranked #2 in the nation? I never denied the team's talent. I just called them overrated, which they were (and would still be if someone ranked them #2).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Regardless of the seeds the teams they played were, they didn't have to play a stretch of games as challenging as the ones that all the other Final Four teams played. That's not even the main point I was trying to make though. The tournament aside, when the poll you were referring to came out, they were overrated. For most of January, they were ranked ahead of the likes of Connecticut, Washington, Illinois, Memphis, Texas, Ohio State, etc. Yes, none of those teams have made it to the Final Four like Florida, but does that mean that Florida's a better team? Of course not. And does that mean they were a better team when this poll came out? Because Florida made the Final Four, they weren't overrated in January when ranked #2 in the nation? I never denied the team's talent. I just called them overrated, which they were (and would still be if someone ranked them #2).</div> Just wondering, if we win the national championship, you wouldn't rank us top 2? If we win against George Mason and lose the national championship you wouldn't rank us top 2? Where would you have us ranked? How about if we lose to George Mason, where would you have us ranked? Is it our fault that the teams that we were supposed to play lost? Is it our fault that UW-Milwaukee hammered Oklahoma or Georgetown hammered Ohio State? I don't see how you can fault the Gators for their road to the Final 4, sure it wasn't as hard as other teams, but we can't help Ohio State beat Georgetown so that we have a tougher road. We have beaten whatever was put in front of us(because they won against the "tougher competition"). We haven't just beaten, but we have completely dominated(minus Georgetown). Also, how does Nova's style play right into our hands? They completely dominated us last year(well we had a much different team last year) and teams that beat us have strong guard play, rather than dominating bigs. Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina all rely on their guards. Bama is the only team that relies on their bigs that has beat us all year. Yes we could just pound it downlow at will, but they should have been able to penetrate against our team and shoot with our perimeter defense minus Brewer(since he was in foul trouble and didn't even play half of the game). I mean would you think that soph Taureen Green, junior Lee Humphrey, freshman Walter Hodge and David Huertas players that could stop 2 All-Americans and Lowry/Nardi as well as they did? Yes Nova shot bad, but a lot of it was to our underrated perimeter players. I don't see how Nova style plays right into our hands, especially when we've lost to Tennessee twice(they are the only quality team that we played that started 4 guards) and I'm sure you agree that Nova's 4 guard lineup is way tougher, more physical and way better than Tennessee's guards.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Just wondering, if we win the national championship, you wouldn't rank us top 2? If we win against George Mason and lose the national championship you wouldn't rank us top 2? Where would you have us ranked? How about if we lose to George Mason, where would you have us ranked?</div> If you win the national championship, you're #1. If you lose in the finals, you're #2. We're not talking about the present though. We're talking about last January when you guys were ranked #2. There's no relevance to what the Gators are doing now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it our fault that the teams that we were supposed to play lost? Is it our fault that UW-Milwaukee hammered Oklahoma or Georgetown hammered Ohio State? I don't see how you can fault the Gators for their road to the Final 4, sure it wasn't as hard as other teams, but we can't help Ohio State beat Georgetown so that we have a tougher road. We have beaten whatever was put in front of us(because they won against the "tougher competition"). We haven't just beaten, but we have completely dominated(minus Georgetown).</div> You're putting words into my mouth. I never faulted the Gators for having a weaker road to the Final Four. That's not even relevant either though. The initial point I made was that the poll was out of date. I'm not calling the Gators overrated now; I did in January. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, how does Nova's style play right into our hands? They completely dominated us last year(well we had a much different team last year) and teams that beat us have strong guard play, rather than dominating bigs. Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina all rely on their guards. Bama is the only team that relies on their bigs that has beat us all year. Yes we could just pound it downlow at will, but they should have been able to penetrate against our team and shoot with our perimeter defense minus Brewer(since he was in foul trouble and didn't even play half of the game). I mean would you think that soph Taureen Green, junior Lee Humphrey, freshman Walter Hodge and David Huertas players that could stop 2 All-Americans and Lowry/Nardi as well as they did? Yes Nova shot bad, but a lot of it was to our underrated perimeter players. I don't see how Nova style plays right into our hands, especially when we've lost to Tennessee twice(they are the only quality team that we played that started 4 guards) and I'm sure you agree that Nova's 4 guard lineup is way tougher, more physical and way better than Tennessee's guards.</div> ^ Another irrelevant point, but I'll address it none the less. Last year's teams and this year's are completely different, so why even bring that up? The teams that beat you during the regular season, for the most part, haven't had to rely on their guard play half as much as Villanova has been forced too since Sumpter went down. One thing that you forgot to mention was that in five of your six losses, you lost that battle on the glass. There was no way in hell that was happening against Villanova. The only decisive advantage that Villanova's <font size=""1"">s-m-a-l-l</font> lineup had against your froncourt dominated lineup was their full-court zone, which was actually effective as hell until Lowry and Ray got into foul trouble and Nardi was forced to take Humphrey. By the way, on a completely unrelated note, that technical foul on Allan Ray was complete bullsh*t. Ray wasn't trying to hurt Richards. He was just giving the kid the ball and it happened to hit him in the face. It completely changed the flow of the game too. It put Ray on the bench, it gave Florida a chance at two freethrows, and then it gave them the ball back, leading to a three. Not blaming the loss on that by any stretch of the imagination, but just had to get that off my chest...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">If you win the national championship, you're #1. If you lose in the finals, you're #2. We're not talking about the present though. We're talking about last January when you guys were ranked #2. There's no relevance to what the Gators are doing now.</div> Look at your post in parenthesis. "(and would still be if someone ranked them #2)" I'm assuming that that meant currently. I took it as if someone ranked them #2 now, they would stlil be overrated. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo:</div><div class="quote_post"> You're putting words into my mouth. I never faulted the Gators for having a weaker road to the Final Four. That's not even relevant either though. The initial point I made was that the poll was out of date. I'm not calling the Gators overrated now; I did in January.</div> Yeah I know it was out of date. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> ^ Another irrelevant point, but I'll address it none the less. Last year's teams and this year's are completely different, so why even bring that up? The teams that beat you during the regular season, for the most part, haven't had to rely on their guard play half as much as Villanova has been forced too since Sumpter went down. One thing that you forgot to mention was that in five of your six losses, you lost that battle on the glass. There was no way in hell that was happening against Villanova. The only decisive advantage that Villanova's <font size=""1"">s-m-a-l-l</font> lineup had against your froncourt dominated lineup was their full-court zone, which was actually effective as hell until Lowry and Ray got into foul trouble and Nardi was forced to take Humphrey. By the way, on a completely unrelated note, that technical foul on Allan Ray was complete bullsh*t. Ray wasn't trying to hurt Richards. He was just giving the kid the ball and it happened to hit him in the face. It completely changed the flow of the game too. It put Ray on the bench, it gave Florida a chance at two freethrows, and then it gave them the ball back, leading to a three. Not blaming the loss on that by any stretch of the imagination, but just had to get that off my chest...</div> Tennessee didn't have to rely heavily on their guard play? If CJ Watson and Lofton were off they struggled. Arkansas relied on their guards and SF(Brewer). South Carolina stsill had Balkman who had big games against us all 3 times, so I won't count them. I didn't understand why we got the ball back on the tech. I thought we would get the FT's and they would get the ball. I know that it wasn't malicious and wasn't meant to be, but he wasn't just throwing the ball back, he was frusterated and just playfully threw the ball at Richard. They gave him a tech to protect the players/fans, just like KG throwing the ball in the stands and getting ejected. Neither were malicious, but it's just something that had to be done.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at your post in parenthesis. "(and would still be if someone ranked them #2)" I'm assuming that that meant currently. I took it as if someone ranked them #2 now, they would stlil be overrated.</div> You assumed right. I wouldn't rank them #2 now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tennessee didn't have to rely heavily on their guard play? If CJ Watson and Lofton were off they struggled. Arkansas relied on their guards and SF(Brewer). South Carolina stsill had Balkman who had big games against us all 3 times, so I won't count them.</div> I didn't say that they didn't have to rely on their guard play. Every team relies on guard play to an extent, but not every team is as dependant upon their guard play as Villanova is.
Voodoo: Saying that you wouldn't rank them #2 is not calling them overrated now, for sure, but you are faulting them for "having an easier road to the final four", no matter how you look at that. Faulting may be a strong word, but the insinuation is that they don't deserve to be there or aren't as good as the other teams in the final four because they played lower seeded teams. No matter though... after they win the title, this circular argument will be null and void. >j<
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Greazy9:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo: Saying that you wouldn't rank them #2 is not calling them overrated now, for sure, but you are faulting them for "having an easier road to the final four", no matter how you look at that. Faulting may be a strong word, but the insinuation is that they don't deserve to be there or aren't as good as the other teams in the final four because they played lower seeded teams. No matter though... after they win the title, this circular argument will be null and void. >j<</div> Naw, they will just say that we've had the easiest road to the championship ever and discredit us for beating a 14, 2 11's, a 7 and a 1 and either a 2/4 and winning.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo: Saying that you wouldn't rank them #2 is not calling them overrated now, for sure, but you are faulting them for "having an easier road to the final four", no matter how you look at that. Faulting may be a strong word, but the insinuation is that they don't deserve to be there or aren't as good as the other teams in the final four because they played lower seeded teams.</div> That's not true at all. I'm not insinuating that they don't deserve to be there because they've played lower seeded teams. I'm saying that there are teams out there who are better than the Gators who didn't make it to the Final Four because of their unfavorable matchups, so thus making the Final Four does not automatically make the Gators better than those teams. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Naw, they will just say that we've had the easiest road to the championship ever and discredit us for beating a 14, 2 11's, a 7 and a 1 and either a 2/4 and winning.</div> There you go putting words into my mouth again. Didn't you read what I said earlier? "If you win the national championship, you're #1. If you lose in the finals, you're #2." Anyway, can we all agree that no one is saying that they're overrated now, and that at the time the poll came out, there were completely different circumstances? That's the whole point of this argument, right?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">That's not true at all. I'm not insinuating that they don't deserve to be there because they've played lower seeded teams. I'm saying that there are teams out there who are better than the Gators who didn't make it to the Final Four because of their unfavorable matchups, so thus making the Final Four does not automatically make the Gators better than those teams. There you go putting words into my mouth again. Didn't you read what I said earlier? "If you win the national championship, you're #1. If you lose in the finals, you're #2." Anyway, can we all agree that no one is saying that they're overrated now, and that at the time the poll came out, there were completely different circumstances? That's the whole point of this argument, right?</div> No, I wasn't putting words into your mouth, that's what the media will say. I wasn't directing it at you. IF we beat George Mason, they will forget everything and just say that they were an 11 seed and we were supposed to beat them badly. If we lose to them then the Cinderella continues, it's a lose-lose for us in the media perspective. I think the media won't give us that much credit because we haven't beaten "anyone". I'm not arguing about that we were overrated in January. I was just arguing about you saying that we'd be overrated if they put us at 2 right now. We are the 2nd highest seed left. You could easily argue us to be at #2 right now and if they did have a poll now and did put us at 2, I don't think we would be considered overrated. We have arguably played the best in this tournament, beating opponents by a combined 65 pts(avg of 16.25), largest of anyone in the tourney. I'm just curious, where would you have a 31-6 team in the major conference with the best showing in the tournament ranked?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm not arguing about that we were overrated in January. I was just arguing about you saying that we'd be overrated if they put us at 2 right now. We are the 2nd highest seed left. You could easily argue us to be at #2 right now and if they did have a poll now and did put us at 2, I don't think we would be considered overrated. We have arguably played the best in this tournament, beating opponents by a combined 65 pts(avg of 16.25), largest of anyone in the tourney. I'm just curious, where would you have a 31-6 team in the major conference with the best showing in the tournament ranked?</div> @ "the" major conference and "31-6" I'd probably have you #5-8. Want to start arguing that one now, or do you agree?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> @ "the" major conference and "31-6" I'd probably have you #5-8. Want to start arguing that one now, or do you agree?</div> Why are you rolling your eyes at "the major conference with the best showing in the tournament". Even you have to agree that the SEC has been the best major conference in this tournament, right?(Only the CAA has a better record then us, but that's because of George Mason's 4 wins) Why are you rolling your eyes at 31-6? It's the first time in our school history that we have won 30 games. Or do all 31 wins not count because we played a weak schedule? You said our weak schedule would bite us in the butt and I believed you, but it obviously didn't hurt us that bad, since we made the Final 4. 5-8 sounds reasonable depending on who's in front of us. Who would you rank ahead of us? As long as it's like UCLA, LSU, UConn, Duke, Texas, Memphis, etc and no Big 10 teams then I wouldn't be too angry. Since all of those teams made the Sweet 16 at least with a better regular season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you rolling your eyes at "the major conference with the best showing in the tournament". Even you have to agree that the SEC has been the best major conference in this tournament, right?(Only the CAA has a better record then us, but that's because of George Mason's 4 wins)</div> I took your post the wrong way. (Stupid mistake on my part, but I'm sitting here with a 103 degree fever, so cut me some slack. ) I thought that when you wrote "with the best showing in the tournament", you were referring to Florida, not to the SEC. For what it means, I agree the SEC has looked the best so far in the tournament though. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you rolling your eyes at 31-6? It's the first time in our school history that we have won 30 games. Or do all 31 wins not count because we played a weak schedule? You said our weak schedule would bite us in the butt and I believed you, but it obviously didn't hurt us that bad, since we made the Final 4. </div> I rolled my eyes at 31-6, because I'm not too big on records, because you can easily pad them with an easy schedule, ala George Washington. I'm not saying that the Gators never played anyone, but with the 253rd ranked non-conference Strength of Schedule, there's a lot of padding on that record which makes it kind of misleading. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5-8 sounds reasonable depending on who's in front of us. Who would you rank ahead of us? As long as it's like UCLA, LSU, UConn, Duke, Texas, Memphis, etc and no Big 10 teams then I wouldn't be too angry. Since all of those teams made the Sweet 16 at least with a better regular season.</div> No Big 10 teams? Now don't be silly. Ohio State had a much better season on the whole, even though they didn't make it to the Final Four. With a 26-6 record, the Big 10 regular season title, and a top 25 strength of schedule, they're deserving of a top five ranking. I'd also think about putting Iowa or Illinois over Florida too, but I most likely wouldn't despite the fact that both have better RPI's, because while tournament success doesn't mean everything, it sure counts for a lot, and those teams choked while Florida has made it this far. The team's I'd likely put over Florida are Duke, Connecticut, Ohio State, and UCLA for sure. Then I'd probably have to make a tough decision between Texas, Memphis, Gonzaga, and you guys for the #5-8 spots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Greazy9:</div><div class="quote_post">Off-topic... we just disagree... but isn't that "Baby DwAYne"?</div> No, Wade spells it DwYane.
