<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">Baron might be back today right??</div> Which means Monta will only play once this whole game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">Baron might be back today right??</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">nside Bay Area - Warriors guard Baron Davis is set to miss at least three more games with an ankle injury, according to insidebayarea.com. The team said Davis, who saw orthopedic specialist John Belzer on Thursday, "is making progress" but will continue to wear a protective boot until his upcoming appointment with Belzer scheduled for next Thursday. Davis has missed 11 games to this point with the injury.</div> http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/397...ree_more_games/ According to Inside Bay Area hes out for at least 3 more games but I'm not sure how accurate that is.
The Lakers and King seem able to play around .500 now,so our chances at the playoffs are getting very thin. Mainly we need a game that creates for the future,Monta,Ike Biedrens,Pietrus,etc,need to play and shine. Dun needs to sustain his recent upswing. Zarko needs to play so we can figure out what's his future. Also,a loss can leapfrog us a couple of draft picks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorsfan:</div><div class="quote_post">ahahahahha season high for foyle!!</div> He might end up with more points than J-Rich.
Kings have really taken their foot off the gas the last few games. What was supposed to be an easy win turned into an ugly loss. Reminds me of the beginning of the season. How the hell do you lose to the baron-less warriors?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">How the hell do you lose to the baron-less warriors?</div> By letting Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy score 17 points each apparently.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Kings have really taken their foot off the gas the last few games. What was supposed to be an easy win turned into an ugly loss. Reminds me of the beginning of the season. How the hell do you lose to the baron-less warriors?</div> Oh, so a Baron-less Warriors team is supposed to be a walk in the park? Oh common man, you guys know better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">By letting Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy score 17 points each apparently.</div> Pre Game meeting: Monty sez---" Guys,Mully says we gotta tank this to save our draft slot,so just FORGET the offensive system entirely.. ..and,um....feed the ball to Foyle!
. Why couldn't Warriors play like this earlier ? We must've won against Dallas and Sacramento on the road because of this weird Hearts game I had today (Check the players) :
Man I hate all this late season winning. It actually feels like we might have a shot in hell at making the playoffs!
Our backcourt wasn't really getting it going, but Dunleavy and Foyle have big games simultaneously for once. What timing! Normally we'd be screwed without Jrich or point guard shooting the ball efficiently with no offensive rebounding. Other guys picked up the scoring production and took advantage of the fact the Kings were struggling. Thank goodness for those things and that's what won the game. I hate the fact that it's something about "playoffs being out of reach" that gets these Warriors playing well. It's either teams not respecting us or the Warriors having no real pressure anymore or all the above. Inside presence on the glass: It's also really nice to have some form of inside presence on rebounding/putbacks or hitting those inside layups for high % points. It gives us an inside game for the ball to move to ...and that's unfortunately been the problem with trying to run a motion offense when the inside game is missing, especially from our big men almost every night. Even Dunleavy took it in strong for a dunk. I guess the Kings are softer than I thought, but then they've never really had strong perimeter defenders outside of Doug Christie or a prototypical center to guard the basket. Webber defended better than Thomas or 'Reef. Brad Miller is good and all, but he's not really a prototypical center that can be a worldbeater on defense. He's decent though... Also he's more of a power forward like Murphy but with better all around skill and glue guy ability. I'm not really impressed with what 'Reef brings other than offense and Kenny Thomas is so-so. Artest was definitely stopping Richardson from getting passed him, and thank goodness his shot selection and shot touch was horrendous!!! For a passing team like the Kings are, he sure helped kill the offensive flow of things. The Bibby was hoisting quite a bit as well... 13 three point attempts... Warriors must have done something right on defense. 4th Quarter scoring: Warriors 4th quarter was frustrating... I thought we were going to lose it. We couldn't hit layups on the drive of all things. Another mental breakdown? Guys were at the rim and they just couldn't hit... Thank goodness for Jrich's clutch shooting and some nice plays by Fisher (outside shooting) and Murphy (offensive rebounding). I like Murphy's role lately. He's been getting on that offensive glass as a result of playing closer to the rim and not standing outside waiting. Murphy and Foyle did a good job on the offensive glass tonight combining for 8 offensive rebounds. Usually Murphy or Foyle have problems with getting these numbers because Murphy is playing away from the basket rather than underneath it and Foyle just can't catch rebounds (because of bad hands or nobody boxing out for him) or he is not fast, athletic or strong enough to get position... You need to have that sort of inside presence from both on the glass, on offense consistently, if the perimeter shots by our guards and small forwards aren't falling. The bench also did a good job hustling and I'm glad we have at least one catch and shoot shooter that is dead-on like Dfish. Fisher may not be quick like Monta Ellis, but he's certainly not going to miss like Ellis often does on catch and shoot. What's up with Ellis?: Ellis brings up another thing... Ellis gets 6 minutes in this game? Bynum gets 13 minutes? WTF? The last time something like this happened was when Biedrins and Pietrus were showing flashes of greatness and then they got benched all of a sudden. Now I ain't going to act like I know everything about rookies based on seeing their limited minutes when they've been hot, but there must be something that isn't exposed yet because we've seen why Pietrus and Biedrins get benched. Biedrins can't play defense and stay out of foul trouble at the same time and he has problems holding his position in the paint. A big dude's game is all about positioning and that's why Murphy and Foyle tend to do better on rebounding (Murphy) and Foyle (boxouts, shotblocks without fouling). Plus, maybe the Warriors are trying to figure out if Bynum is worth signing for the rest of the season since he's 10 day contract and also might as well ride Dunleavy as backpoint point while he's hot and the fact he understands/runs the plays. Ellis, right now, has a lot of hype attached to him. Maybe similar to Pietrus when he was scoring a point per minute all on his own. Pietrus' problem is he's got no midrange game and no decision making abilities, very low fundamentals. Pietrus, in my mind, would be a star if he had Jrich's mental game down and his decision making. So I wonder what is Ellis' problem. We got 5 coaches on the sideline and they must know something we don't and it'd be foolish for fans to assume that the coaches are clueless and don't know basketball. If fans think they do, why don't they start coaching. I do know that Ellis is a little more raw than we think when it comes to dribbling, decision making, some aspects of shooting. Of course when Fisher starts sucking and we can't get dribble penetration going, Ellis looks like a world beater all of a sudden. But still... Bynum gets more playing time over Ellis? Weird... It's either injury, some bad habits Ellis is showing on the court, or something where he's not learning the right way to play before he goes in there, or Warriors simply want to test out Bynum. Still, despite his shaky offensive game, Ellis has been a great defender, does those little things and he can see the floor pretty well. In summary, pretty good game, although it could have been a huge spoiler if the Warriors lost it with all that lead because they could not hit layups and guys were missing free throws near the end. Plus there were some dumb turnovers, but hey it wasn't that bad as some games...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Pre Game meeting: Monty sez---" Guys,Mully says we gotta tank this to save our draft slot,so just FORGET the offensive system entirely.. ..and,um....feed the ball to Foyle!</div> C'mon REREM, you're like one of my favorite basketball posters on the internet who has the most experience watching basketball. But you've been talking negative about the offensive system this whole season. What can we do better instead? What would you propose the coaches do to get this team to play sound ball without going outside player's limitations or inconsistencies? How do they get organized? How do they create when Baron, the only dribble penetrator on our team, is constantly injured or won't run plays to let the other guys know what he's doing? What happens if guys who played well last year aren't getting it done and they're locked up under big deals? What can the coach do in his playbook without getting the GM and front office pissed at him for benching certain players or causing disharmony by acting like a crazy man? The players are grown professionals and you can't treat guys like Fisher the same way you do with rookies, no matter how frustrating he is as a shoot first "point guard". You have to go with who the GM has invested in. Same thing with Adonal "can't get any less fundamental than dropping passes" Foyle as starting center with no consistent backup center. Besides what is the alternative to motion offense? Running without a plan or a playmaker or a fast ballhandler? We have to stick with something where we can play under control and get higher %'s than constantly turning the ball over, shooting low % shots, and playing outside the Warriors capabilities with Derek Fisher. But here lies the main problem, motion offense only works if you have guys who run/understand plays and they're executing, passing, moving and shooting the ball well. It also helps if there's some inside presence, guys who can catch, finish inside, collect missed shots and also supporting guys who can provide a better midrange game (instead of all or nothing long ball or drive to the bucket type play). Yet we don't have those things because guys would rather stand around and hoist threes that go in about 30% of the time. That is not a good shot selection. Also missed layups have been a problem for this team and also having guys not use the midrange game that has served guys like Murphy/Richardson well. Plus, what about the bench this season? It's super thin at the big positions. We've got rookies and foreign projects still in the works... I've been saying it before that Biedrins is not ready to play consistently until he stops getting those stupid fouls. Part of it is physical (he's not that strong) and the other is mental and the fact he's a raw player to begin with. Until he gets rid of his habit of leaving his feet and jumping into guys, he can't be relied upon to stay on the floor and referees will never give him the benefit of the doubt on calls. He's also just not strong enough to play any other way with his body by staying on the ground and using his strength to play the post. Guys like Foyle, who aren't very good most nights, will outmuscle him any day of the weak. Biedrins will be a good role player some day, but his style of contact play needs more muscle and bulk, otherwise he's better off as a power forward. Then also Pietrus, awesome guy, I like the player, but he's just too much of a lone wolf type player and he's low % right now. He can cut to the rim, he can handle the ball somewhat if he's actually playing under control for once and not making up his mind before reacting to the defender. He's got a nice three point shot from the baseline (that is very streaky, but also very deadly if he's on fire: Think Jumaine Jones). Outside of dunking or three point shots, nothing about his offensive game is reliable. He's got a very poor shot selection and he bricks free throws. We've lost game this season because guys like him cast bad shots, turned the ball over, commit stupid fouls, or missed free throws... He needs an intermediate ranged game and some ability to make layups once in a while, not just dunks or threes. Then Zarko. He doesn't really bring too much rebounding/defense to the table and that wouldn't matter if he was making plays happen and shooting 50% with assists. But this year's he's been struggling to find a true position he can play on this team. Plus, Murphy and Dunleavy are locked up and they take away opportunities from the guy at SF/PF and C. He probably won't get re-signed, which is bad because I think the world of him as a utility guy with some athleticism, shot touch, good set of hands, and smartness to his game. He's just too weak and inconsistent. So REREM how do these guys play ball when certain players have taken steps backward in their games and they're locked up? How do you play ball with the guys you got and will be seeing for the next 3-4 seasons in an 8 or 9 man set rotation? Guys like Pietrus/Dunleavy, Zarko, and Foyle have been missing in action all season, where do you find production from SF/PF/C? How do you create good shots when your ballhandlers suck or are too slow to do anything that Baron was doing to draw double teams? REREM, I don't mean to sound like I'm badgering, but I see tons of comments which criticize rather than point out what the Warriors could be doing instead (minus Baron or with Baron). It's not easy to turn around the entire franchise with just one addition to the roster (who has been hurt an awful lot), plus rookies still developing. We'd lose either way until guys develop, we play an 82 game season playing like we did in last March or this March, or we acquire guys who can ground this franchise with a stronger foundation than what we have now. Besides motion offense or just running around launching one-pass three point shots and crashing the middle, what do we do? What is a good offense for this team? High double post/3-2 hi-lo/flex/triangle/wheel? What's the strategy when the Warriors have never had the patience or mental discipline to play like this? We can't just go out there and play pickup ball like we've been doing for the past 12 seasons. It has to be structured at some point or we can't win games. I'll take growing pains over not trying to play like a fundamental basketball team any day of the week because that's what good teams do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Our backcourt wasn't really getting it going, but Dunleavy and Foyle have big games simultaneously for once. What timing! Normally we'd be screwed without Jrich or point guard shooting the ball efficiently with no offensive rebounding. Other guys picked up the scoring production and took advantage of the fact the Kings were struggling. Thank goodness for those things and that's what won the game. I hate the fact that it's something about "playoffs being out of reach" that gets these Warriors playing well. It's either teams not respecting us or the Warriors having no real pressure anymore or all the above.</div> Yeah, I thought we were at the point where it would be better to lose if we wanted a high draft pick. OTOH, winning is fun, especially against good teams such as Dallas and Sacramento. More important, I think it shows that guys haven't been picking up the slack or playing to their potential even when Baron could play. I would put that on the vets, especially Foyle, Fisher and Dunleavy. These guys need to continue to play like this. If not, then it's where this team needs the help the most.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I thought we were at the point where it would be better to lose if we wanted a high draft pick. OTOH, winning is fun, especially against good teams such as Dallas and Sacramento. More important, I think it shows that guys haven't been picking up the slack or playing to their potential even when Baron could play. I would put that on the vets, especially Foyle, Fisher and Dunleavy. These guys need to continue to play like this. If not, then it's where this team needs the help the most.</div> Yeah, the Warriors are definitely frustrating like this... When the pressure is off them, they start winning, and we get another 8 or 11 pick unless the lottery moves us up higher. BTW, here's a nice resource I found which might help out guys who've never actually played any organized basketball help relate to the situation the Warriors have. It also describes what roles, traits and qualities each of the five spots should have against other competition in the designed offense styles. http://www.coachesclipboard.net/Playbook.html http://www.jes-soft.com/playbook/pla4lowflexentry.html Like maybe some others on this board, I only played at a very basic high school level, but I can still relate to a lot of these things coaches emphasize you must know to play good team ball. It's amazing how the NBA sometimes has players that lack the basic, but they get employed because there's hope they can turn it around and reach their potential as over-sized, extremely athletic mismatches. Anyway, I hope we can relate to what coaches and guys like Jim Barnett have to say about the game of basketball. It's really about teamwork and it always has been, but sometimes general fans just don't understand this. There's so many styles to play and it's all dependent on how the team is designed or what their strengths/weaknesses are. The team with the most strengths and fewest weaknesses usually wins more games and control the tempo. Everytime, I look at the Warriors I wonder what can they do to win consistently and not get disappointing in the 4th? We can't run without Baron... we can't play halfcourt with Baron as long as guys like him and others miss their shots and don't know what to do because he won't call plays... frustrating... the solution is not easy based on Mullin's moves and what the players are doing.
