Kobe Bryant cause the only way you could build around him would be to clone him. And yes, I watch him play a lot. I just saw him hoist a bunch of out-of-rhythm 3's that have no chance of going in instead of trying to work with a motivated Luke Walton or Lamar Odom.
Iverson and Garnett. Iverson because he dominates the ball so much and is the size of a point guard. Garnett because he's not a franchise-level scorer, which makes it hard to pair him with players who are willing to defer to him most of the time but who can also shoulder the scoring load in late game situations.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">No brainer, Stephon Marbury.</div> True... but I would hardly consider him a superstar, but that's just me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BigMo763:</div><div class="quote_post">True... but I would hardly consider him a superstar, but that's just me.</div> He's not a superstar because he's difficult to build around, though. He definitely has superstar talent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe and Iverson would top that list. lol at KG being hard to build around. A guy wins 52 games in a tough Western conference [this is when it was crazy], with Troy Hudson as his main 2nd option, and Szczerbiak the real 2nd option only playing 50 something games, and he's hard to build around? That's laughable. The first time the guy has a "good" team [still not comparing to some others], he wins 58 games and MVP, and he's hard to build around? Didn't KG take a huge paycut. In 03-04 he made $28 million, then in 04-05, he made $16 million. Normally your salary goes up, that's about a $14 million drop because I think he would've been on to $30 million on the previous contract. Right now, KG is making $18 million, $1.6-2.2 million more than AI, Kidd, JO, Marbury, Kobe, Finley, and Duncan. $2.5 million more than Hill, McGrady, Jalen, and Van Horn. Right now his salary is perfectly fine.</div> KG never took a pay cut that was how his contract was structured. KG is difficult to play with because he does not make his teammates substantially better. Look at players such as Nash, Dirk, Lebron, etc. These players may have superior teams but they make good teams, great teams. I still feel KG is a superstar player, but the last two years may have proven he is a little overrated. I would say Iverson is the most difficult to play with simply because of his demand for the basketball. He plays with very good players in Iggy, Webber, Dalembert, but does not have the ability to excel with them on the floor.
The obvious choice is Marbury due to his track record of losing. Iverson would also probably fit the description but he has been to the finals before. KG has been on the same team his whole carreer and hasn't been surrounded by good players, Baron has been to the playoffs several times and gone to the second round twice (if I remember correctly), and Zach Rondolph isnt really a superstar but hes still young and has a terrible supporting cast.
I say: 1. Iverson 2. Marbury 3. T-mac ( I say him because he has never been to the second round of playoffs).
hmmmm....I still think KG isn't hard to build around, he just never had anyone to build around him. I mean they never get good supporters for him. The only good players that have been on the T'Wolves as of late is Banks, and Davis and Davis isn't even 100%.
Probably Kobe. No one seems to like playing with him, and he shoots too much and has a bad attitude for anyone to feel comfortable playing with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">KG never took a pay cut that was how his contract was structured. KG is difficult to play with because he does not make his teammates substantially better. Look at players such as Nash, Dirk, Lebron, etc. These players may have superior teams but they make good teams, great teams. I still feel KG is a superstar player, but the last two years may have proven he is a little overrated. I would say Iverson is the most difficult to play with simply because of his demand for the basketball. He plays with very good players in Iggy, Webber, Dalembert, but does not have the ability to excel with them on the floor.</div> I don't think you understand me. If Garnett were to get a normal extension, his starting salary would've been $29.4 million. Instead he re-negotiated the contract to about $10 million less so that the team could improve. In total the entire new salary was $80 million less than what he would've gotten under normal circumstances. So your conclusion is that KG is hard to build around because he's had 2 bad years recently? I mean we'll ignore the years where he won 50 games in a deep West, with nobodies on his team? What were those, flukes? How can you be hard to build around when you've hardly ever had any good players built around you. The first good guy he had retired due to injury, the second time he had good players, both guys were old and complaining about contracts, and the team had problems due to that. The team then get's dismantled because of the contract issues. When he did have good players, guess what happened, he won. KG | Terrell Brandon: 50-32 KG | Wally: 47-35 KG | Hudson: 51-31 KG | Cassell: 58-24 KG | Wally/Spree: 44-38 The Minnesotta team has yet to actually be built around KG, they just have some random guys and hope that they can build chemistry and become good.
Stevie Franchise,he always has problems and I don't think that Knicks did a good job trading him from Orlando
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think you understand me. If Garnett were to get a normal extension, his starting salary would've been $29.4 million. Instead he re-negotiated the contract to about $10 million less so that the team could improve. In total the entire new salary was $80 million less than what he would've gotten under normal circumstances. So your conclusion is that KG is hard to build around because he's had 2 bad years recently? I mean we'll ignore the years where he won 50 games in a deep West, with nobodies on his team? What were those, flukes? How can you be hard to build around when you've hardly ever had any good players built around you. The first good guy he had retired due to injury, the second time he had good players, both guys were old and complaining about contracts, and the team had problems due to that. The team then get's dismantled because of the contract issues. When he did have good players, guess what happened, he won. KG | Terrell Brandon: 50-32 KG | Wally: 47-35 KG | Hudson: 51-31 KG | Cassell: 58-24 KG | Wally/Spree: 44-38 The Minnesotta team has yet to actually be built around KG, they just have some random guys and hope that they can build chemistry and become good.</div> Truth has spoken! lol exactly my thoughts. He is in no way hard to build around, and if anything how is Kobe hard to build around......3 championships?.....nah nevermind ...... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Any guard not named MJ.</div> Haha true
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think you understand me. If Garnett were to get a normal extension, his starting salary would've been $29.4 million. Instead he re-negotiated the contract to about $10 million less so that the team could improve. In total the entire new salary was $80 million less than what he would've gotten under normal circumstances. So your conclusion is that KG is hard to build around because he's had 2 bad years recently? I mean we'll ignore the years where he won 50 games in a deep West, with nobodies on his team? What were those, flukes? How can you be hard to build around when you've hardly ever had any good players built around you. The first good guy he had retired due to injury, the second time he had good players, both guys were old and complaining about contracts, and the team had problems due to that. The team then get's dismantled because of the contract issues. When he did have good players, guess what happened, he won. KG | Terrell Brandon: 50-32 KG | Wally: 47-35 KG | Hudson: 51-31 KG | Cassell: 58-24 KG | Wally/Spree: 44-38 The Minnesotta team has yet to actually be built around KG, they just have some random guys and hope that they can build chemistry and become good.</div> Link regarding the re-negotiated contract???????? When did KG win 50+ games with "nobodies" on his team??? Your post is a perfect indicator. He won 50+ games with the likes of Brandon, Wally, Cassell, Spree, Hassell and others. Those are quality NBA players and many are All-Star caliber. On how many occasions has KG made it out of the 1st round? On how many occasions has KG made it to the Western Conference finals? The years he won 50 games were legitimate. He won and went to the playoffs with a similar cast as he has currently. If he was an MVP type player he should be able to do this again. Look at players like Kobe, Nash, Shaq, Dirk, and others as examples! Kobe and Nash do not have greatly talented teams, but they get the most out of the talent they have!!! I never said that KG is the most difficult player in the NBA to play with. I merely stated that he is not as easy to play with as many feel. He is a little overrated in that sense. The last two seasons are a great indication. I feel the Timberwolves have playoff caliber talent. As the leader of that team I feel KG is responsible for meshing the talent together, and making the team better. Players like Shaq, and Duncan are perfect examples of what to do with talent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's going to be Rasheed Wallace's five-year, $57 million deal with Detroit this summer. The starting salary is about $9.1 million, a hefty pay cut from the $17 million he made last season and went from Portland to Atlanta to Detroit, where he won a championship. Of course, Wallace hasn't been an All-Star in three years and he was only the team's third-leading scorer in the playoffs. But this is the NBA, where taller players clear taller checks, and Wallace isn't alone in taking a pay cut. Kevin Garnett -- the 2004 MVP -- made $28 million last season, but will see his salary decline to $16 million when his extension kicks in this season. That pay cut came with the understanding the Wolves would take the money they were saving and put it into other players. Sure enough, Minnesota put the pieces around Garnett and had the West's best regular-season record last season.</div> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/187624_max24.html His contract extension would've had him making $29 million last season, and about $30 million this year, instead he's made $16 million and $18 million. 51-31 with Troy Hudson as the second option. Wally was on the team but only played 59 games and averaged like 17 PPG that year. That's winning 50 games with "nobodies", which is obviously an overexaggeration meaning he had no players that would be considered on the higher level in the NBA producing significantly that year. I wasn't reffering to Brandon as I clearly said the first good guy he had retired due to injury. Who do you think I was reffering to, Michael Dickerson who was on Memphis? Of course I meant Bradon. Again, I'm pretty sure I said having Cassell and Spree was having a good team, look one post up. Wally is not a bad player, but in the Western conference, a team of KG and Wally and not much else of a supporting cast or bench really can't take you too far especially when the coaching is not where it needs to be. KG is in his 11th NBA season at the age of 29. He's played 7 straight seasons and counting without missing more than one game. Last season he played 81 games while his knee was injured all year. Also his heart is not in it like it was in previous seasons, he's still playing hard, but frustration has dawned on him. Last season was hapmered by more than just basketball things, this season though if Flip was coaching, they would've won a lot more games. Well with Shaq, in his prime, he's easily a better player than KG, plain and simple, but I don't know how well Shaq would've done if he had a similar team to this one in the Western conference in the 03-04 season. Duncan is very good, but he's enjoyed having great management, and coaching for his whole career. KG had the coaching with Flip, but not the management. Duncan's teams have prided themselves on tough defense and execution, and having Pop has made that possible every year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said that KG is the most difficult player in the NBA to play with. I merely stated that he is not as easy to play with as many feel. He is a little overrated in that sense. The last two seasons are a great indication. I feel the Timberwolves have playoff caliber talent. As the leader of that team I feel KG is responsible for meshing the talent together, and making the team better. Players like Shaq, and Duncan are perfect examples of what to do with talent.</div> I don't think it has anything to do with him being hard to play with. KG like Duncan is one of the most team oriented superstar guys in the league. You hardly ever see him force anything, the guy plays offensively like all players should, trying to involve everyone. The meshing of the team should start from the management, then the coaching, and lastly the lead players. Last seasons blunders cannot be attributed to KG. The meshing of the team problems were these: Sam and Spree not getting contracts, and Wally wanting more PT, both things relating to management, and KG. This year, I do feel they could've won more games, I won't disagree with that. They started off 12-7 of something like that, and then it died after that. They're a weak offensive team, and a good but not great defensive team. When you look at the team, Marcus Banks has been the 3rd best player this year. Not that he's bad, but that's not something to be proud of as a manager of a team. KG is a league leader in RPG, yet Minnesotta is almost last in RPG. When KG scores 25+ points they're 12-12 When KG hit's 10+ FG's they're 10-13 When KG grabs 15+ rebounds they're 7-14 When KG has 7+ asssits they're 6-2 When KG goes to the line 10+ times they're 6-4 When KG goes to the line 8+ times, they're 11-12 Scoring wise it doesn't seem like it matters how much he produces there. Rebounding wise does not matter at all, assists wise, which I'm assuming would mean when his teamates are also playing well, they do good. Also him getting to the line seems doesn't really have an effect. So I truly don't know what is needed for them to win, KG playing PG? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Truth has spoken! lol exactly my thoughts. He is in no way hard to build around, and if anything how is Kobe hard to build around......3 championships?.....nah nevermind ......</div> The Lakers weren't built around Kobe, but actually more around Shaq then. In general it's harder to build around perimeter players because different ones have different needs. For the most part with a big man, it's guys to spread the floor, and a pretty good PG, and you're set.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/187624_max24.html His contract extension would've had him making $29 million last season, and about $30 million this year, instead he's made $16 million and $18 million. 51-31 with Troy Hudson as the second option. Wally was on the team but only played 59 games and averaged like 17 PPG that year. That's winning 50 games with "nobodies", which is obviously an overexaggeration meaning he had no players that would be considered on the higher level in the NBA producing significantly that year. I wasn't reffering to Brandon as I clearly said the first good guy he had retired due to injury. Who do you think I was reffering to, Michael Dickerson who was on Memphis? Of course I meant Bradon. Again, I'm pretty sure I said having Cassell and Spree was having a good team, look one post up. Wally is not a bad player, but in the Western conference, a team of KG and Wally and not much else of a supporting cast or bench really can't take you too far especially when the coaching is not where it needs to be. KG is in his 11th NBA season at the age of 29. He's played 7 straight seasons and counting without missing more than one game. Last season he played 81 games while his knee was injured all year. Also his heart is not in it like it was in previous seasons, he's still playing hard, but frustration has dawned on him. Last season was hapmered by more than just basketball things, this season though if Flip was coaching, they would've won a lot more games. Well with Shaq, in his prime, he's easily a better player than KG, plain and simple, but I don't know how well Shaq would've done if he had a similar team to this one in the Western conference in the 03-04 season. Duncan is very good, but he's enjoyed having great management, and coaching for his whole career. KG had the coaching with Flip, but not the management. Duncan's teams have prided themselves on tough defense and execution, and having Pop has made that possible every year. I don't think it has anything to do with him being hard to play with. KG like Duncan is one of the most team oriented superstar guys in the league. You hardly ever see him force anything, the guy plays offensively like all players should, trying to involve everyone. The meshing of the team should start from the management, then the coaching, and lastly the lead players. Last seasons blunders cannot be attributed to KG. The meshing of the team problems were these: Sam and Spree not getting contracts, and Wally wanting more PT, both things relating to management, and KG. This year, I do feel they could've won more games, I won't disagree with that. They started off 12-7 of something like that, and then it died after that. They're a weak offensive team, and a good but not great defensive team. When you look at the team, Marcus Banks has been the 3rd best player this year. Not that he's bad, but that's not something to be proud of as a manager of a team. KG is a league leader in RPG, yet Minnesotta is almost last in RPG. When KG scores 25+ points they're 12-12 When KG hit's 10+ FG's they're 10-13 When KG grabs 15+ rebounds they're 7-14 When KG has 7+ asssits they're 6-2 When KG goes to the line 10+ times they're 6-4 When KG goes to the line 8+ times, they're 11-12 Scoring wise it doesn't seem like it matters how much he produces there. Rebounding wise does not matter at all, assists wise, which I'm assuming would mean when his teamates are also playing well, they do good. Also him getting to the line seems doesn't really have an effect. So I truly don't know what is needed for them to win, KG playing PG? The Lakers weren't built around Kobe, but actually more around Shaq then. In general it's harder to build around perimeter players because different ones have different needs. For the most part with a big man, it's guys to spread the floor, and a pretty good PG, and you're set.</div> Technically Garnett did not take a pay-cut. His current extension was just less then he was making previously. KG never re-negotiated his contract and that was my beef. He just makes less with his current contract. I can see we have a difference of opinion. All of the stats, facts, and catchy phrases in the world could not change either of our minds. I just do not see how Garnett has a great year with Hudson and Wally, and yet does not excel with Hudson, Wally, McCants, and Olowakandi (prior to trades)!!!? This cast of “nobodies” seems to be more skilled in my opinion. I still feel Garnett is a superstar talent. I respect the fact he plays hard every night on a poor team. I just feel the team is not reaching its potential, and that has to fall on someone's shoulders. I blame the one time MVP who is supposed to help his teammates to excel. Instead his team gets worse as the season progresses. In that sense Garnett is difficult to play with. Do you feel that Garnett is getting the most out of himself and the talent around him? Personally I do not!
I hear what you're saying, but still, no player in his situation goes down that much in salary on an extension. Hudson has only played 36 games this season, they were 17-19 with him, it's possible he could make a difference for them since they have minimal outside shooting. I wouldn't include McCants and Olowkandi in anything because McCants has only played good in like March and a little of Feb, and Olowokandi was terrible for them. Before the trade, the main supporting cast was Wally, Jaric, and Hassell. After the trade it's been Ricky, Banks, Blount and Hassell. Comparing his team in 02-03 to the one now, the difference comes more in experience, and depth. This team right now doesn't really have anyone noteworthy coming off the bench. Griffin isn't bad, but hasn't found his shot all year, and is useless on offense because of that. In 02-03, they had a shooter in Peeler, Gill who could defend and give a little offense, Radoslav starting at C averaging 11.5 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and 1.5 BPG [if Kandi could've given them that], a veteran PG in Rod for a little more than half the season, Joe Smith for about the same amount of time, and Marc Jackson and Trent. None of these guys are big names, but compared to Hassell, Madsen, McCants, Kandi, AC and Justin Reed, they're better players. I think a big difference was also the coaching factor. Casey is nice, but still a rookie head coach.
Just because a player doesn't have a ring to flash, doesn't mean he is hard to build around. Maybe it is what is around him that is the problem I say Marbury is the toughest. Honorable mention is Francis He doesn't really do much in improving a team. T-Mac and KG make teams better, don't blame them if they don't go crazy and score 62 points per game in the playoffs (which T-Mac did...he averaged like 44ppg in one playoff series).
