<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (panthersare#1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'> Randy Moss over Steve Smith on pure talent alone! LT is the best overall player in the game though.</div> Pure Talent doesnt equal TDs. Randy Moss has 2 TDs, Steve Smith has 7 TDs thats 35 points difference</div> Are you kidding me!!! Moss is doubled on every route. He is also sometime tripled covered. Moss is the most talented WR probably ever to play the game. That don't mean he plays harder than anyone else. Your basing it on stats. Do they keep track of when a WR makes a great block. Hines Ward is a logical canidate then. As of now I'll take Moss,Owens,Harrison,Ward,Chad Johnson, and Torry Holt over Steve Smith. Mushin Muhammed lead the league in every category last season receiving wise. Did you consider him the best?</div> I will admit that I don't consider Steve Smith the best WR in the NFL and that the fact that he's a Panther might be a big reason that panthersare#1 is saying that Smith is best, however his argument is not without merit. Steve Smith, like Randy Moss, is the best WR on his team and draws the most attention, so the double coverage excuse is a weak one. Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss. You don't want to pay attention stats, but that doesn't surprise me. You would rather pay attention to things like hype and popular opinion rather than cold hard facts. The facts are that Steve Smith is getting it done better, this year, than Randy Moss. By the way, your so fond of pointing out that the only stat that matters is the win-loss record. Do you care to tell us the Panthers and Raiders win-loss record right now?
If you only looked at this year, Steve Smith is the best WR up to this point. He is the most dominant WR in the game right now. Then i would say Torry Holt is the #2 best reciever right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (panthersare#1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Pure Talent doesnt equal TDs. Randy Moss has 2 TDs, Steve Smith has 7 TDs thats 35 points difference</div> Are you kidding me!!! Moss is doubled on every route. He is also sometime tripled covered. Moss is the most talented WR probably ever to play the game. That don't mean he plays harder than anyone else. Your basing it on stats. Do they keep track of when a WR makes a great block. Hines Ward is a logical canidate then. As of now I'll take Moss,Owens,Harrison,Ward,Chad Johnson, and Torry Holt over Steve Smith. Mushin Muhammed lead the league in every category last season receiving wise. Did you consider him the best?</div> I will admit that I don't consider Steve Smith the best WR in the NFL and that the fact that he's a Panther might be a big reason that panthersare#1 is saying that Smith is best, however his argument is not without merit. Steve Smith, like Randy Moss, is the best WR on his team and draws the most attention, so the double coverage excuse is a weak one. Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss. You don't want to pay attention stats, but that doesn't surprise me. You would rather pay attention to things like hype and popular opinion rather than cold hard facts. The facts are that Steve Smith is getting it done better, this year, than Randy Moss. By the way, your so fond of pointing out that the only stat that matters is the win-loss record. Do you care to tell us the Panthers and Raiders win-loss record right now?</div> Maybe that was a bad example. Either way Panthersare1 you still haven't answered my question about Mushin Muhammed. I'm waiting... Also Dale all that matters is win-loss amoung teams. TEAMS! TEAMS! T-E-A-M-S!!! If you put together a team with good chemistry or that is winning you get good results. Steve Smith like Randy Moss is ONE Person. The Panthers are the better team out of the Raiders but Randy Moss is more talented than Steve Smith. Saying Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL or player(not sure what you were referring to mentioning him here) is the 2nd most biased thing I've heard since the Summer. Was Trent Dilfer the best QB in the NFL in 2000 because he was on the best team?
thats also another point i made, put Randy Moss in the situation that Steve Smith is in do u still take Steve Smith over Randy Moss, i certainly would hope not. Put Steve Smith in Randy Moss' position does he still have 7 TDs. I would doubt it. Its all about the team and situation.
I consider Muhammad the 2nd best most physical reciever in the nfl under hines Ward. Steve Smith gets it done, and thats the only thing that matters. Right now Randy Moss is not playing at the same level as Steve Smith
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (panthersare#1)</div><div class='quotemain'>I consider Muhammad the 2nd best most physical reciever in the nfl under hines Ward. Steve Smith gets it done, and thats the only thing that matters. Right now Randy Moss is not playing at the same level as Steve Smith</div> Your bias is exceeded only by the size of the universe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (panthersare#1)</div><div class='quotemain'>I consider Muhammad the 2nd best most physical reciever in the nfl under hines Ward. Steve Smith gets it done, and thats the only thing that matters. Right now Randy Moss is not playing at the same level as Steve Smith</div> Your bias is exceeded only by the size of the universe.</div> Agreed! Wise Words! Wise Words!
The best player in the NFL is LaDanian Tomlinson he has 1 passing TD, 9 rushing TDs, and 130 receiving yards on 16 catches
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'> Are you kidding me!!! Moss is doubled on every route. He is also sometime tripled covered. Moss is the most talented WR probably ever to play the game. That don't mean he plays harder than anyone else. Your basing it on stats. Do they keep track of when a WR makes a great block. Hines Ward is a logical canidate then. As of now I'll take Moss,Owens,Harrison,Ward,Chad Johnson, and Torry Holt over Steve Smith. Mushin Muhammed lead the league in every category last season receiving wise. Did you consider him the best?</div> I will admit that I don't consider Steve Smith the best WR in the NFL and that the fact that he's a Panther might be a big reason that panthersare#1 is saying that Smith is best, however his argument is not without merit. Steve Smith, like Randy Moss, is the best WR on his team and draws the most attention, so the double coverage excuse is a weak one. Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss. You don't want to pay attention stats, but that doesn't surprise me. You would rather pay attention to things like hype and popular opinion rather than cold hard facts. The facts are that Steve Smith is getting it done better, this year, than Randy Moss. By the way, your so fond of pointing out that the only stat that matters is the win-loss record. Do you care to tell us the Panthers and Raiders win-loss record right now?</div> Maybe that was a bad example. Either way Panthersare1 you still haven't answered my question about Mushin Muhammed. I'm waiting... Also Dale all that matters is win-loss amoung teams. TEAMS! TEAMS! T-E-A-M-S!!! If you put together a team with good chemistry or that is winning you get good results. Steve Smith like Randy Moss is ONE Person. The Panthers are the better team out of the Raiders but Randy Moss is more talented than Steve Smith. Saying Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL or player(not sure what you were referring to mentioning him here) is the 2nd most biased thing I've heard since the Summer. Was Trent Dilfer the best QB in the NFL in 2000 because he was on the best team?</div> Make up your mind. Everytime I say Michael Vick isn't a good QB, you throw the Falcons win-loss record in my face, but here you convieniently change to "TEAM! TEAM! T-E-A-M!." I've have been saying that win-loss records are a team accomplishment all along. Do I need to dig up all those old posts? I only brought it up because it's one of your favorite defenses for the players your bias toward. Which way do you want it? Is Michael Vick responsible for the Falcons winning? If he is, then why isn't panthersare#1 argument that Steve Smith is better than Randy Moss valid? Your calling panthersare#1 bias, but you seem to use whatever method of reasoning suits your purpose at the moment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wannab Favre)</div><div class='quotemain'>Thank god I started ihm on my Fantasy Team!</div> No thank common sense! :cheesey:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> I will admit that I don't consider Steve Smith the best WR in the NFL and that the fact that he's a Panther might be a big reason that panthersare#1 is saying that Smith is best, however his argument is not without merit. Steve Smith, like Randy Moss, is the best WR on his team and draws the most attention, so the double coverage excuse is a weak one. Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss. You don't want to pay attention stats, but that doesn't surprise me. You would rather pay attention to things like hype and popular opinion rather than cold hard facts. The facts are that Steve Smith is getting it done better, this year, than Randy Moss. By the way, your so fond of pointing out that the only stat that matters is the win-loss record. Do you care to tell us the Panthers and Raiders win-loss record right now?</div> Maybe that was a bad example. Either way Panthersare1 you still haven't answered my question about Mushin Muhammed. I'm waiting... Also Dale all that matters is win-loss amoung teams. TEAMS! TEAMS! T-E-A-M-S!!! If you put together a team with good chemistry or that is winning you get good results. Steve Smith like Randy Moss is ONE Person. The Panthers are the better team out of the Raiders but Randy Moss is more talented than Steve Smith. Saying Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL or player(not sure what you were referring to mentioning him here) is the 2nd most biased thing I've heard since the Summer. Was Trent Dilfer the best QB in the NFL in 2000 because he was on the best team?</div> Make up your mind. Everytime I say Michael Vick isn't a good QB, you throw the Falcons win-loss record in my face, but here you convieniently change to "TEAM! TEAM! T-E-A-M!." I've have been saying that win-loss records are a team accomplishment all along. Do I need to dig up all those old posts? I only brought it up because it's one of your favorite defenses for the players your bias toward. Which way do you want it? Is Michael Vick responsible for the Falcons winning? If he is, then why isn't panthersare#1 argument that Steve Smith is better than Randy Moss valid? Your calling panthersare#1 bias, but you seem to use whatever method of reasoning suits your purpose at the moment.</div> It's simple. The Falcons are a better team with Michael Vick at QB. Thats why you don't bench Vick like you seem to think would be the wise decision. They are 0-4 in games Vick hasn't started under Jim Mora. Why jump into this conversation. I've said before the Falcons are better team with Mike Vick at QB. I hate Terrell Owens but I guess I'm biased towards him saying he's better than Smith as well. Randy Moss is a better WR. To play WR you need to be in good situations really, when you think about it. Steve Smith is great. He's having a hell of a year but he's not THE best WR in the game. Far from the best player. The question was The NFL's best player and he said Steve Smith! LT is the best player in the game in my opinion. Steve Smith has a ways to go in probably most peoples opinons as well. Randy Moss makes a difference in any game he plays in. If you ask NFL defenses who scares them the most it's Randy Moss when it comes to WR's. There shouldn't be an argument here. Moss is better than Smith. Steve Smith has never had back to back 1,000 yard season. I do believe he's never scored 10+ TD's in a season. Has he ever went over a 100 catches? Panthersare1 is just being biased towards Smith right now because he's having a hell of a year. It would be like me saying Javon Walker is the best in game a year ago. Was he? I never thought so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>It's simple. The Falcons are a better team with Michael Vick at QB. Thats why you don't bench Vick like you seem to think would be the wise decision. They are 0-4 in games Vick hasn't started under Jim Mora. Why jump into this conversation. I've said before the Falcons are better team with Mike Vick at QB. I hate Terrell Owens but I guess I'm biased towards him saying he's better than Smith as well. You've lost my ...........</div> Why are you bringing up the Falcons being 0-4 without Vick? Win-loss records belong to TEAMS! TEAMS! T-E-A-M-S! Your trying to have it both ways to suit your bias. The Panthers are doing much better than the Raiders and Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss, so there is validation to Steve Smith performing better than Randy Moss so far this season. Try to learn to be consistant with the logic behind your arguments. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Randy Moss is a better WR. To play WR you need to be in good situations really when you think about it. Steve Smith is great. He's having a hell of a year but he's not THE best WR in the game. Far from the best player. The question was The NFL's best player and he said Steve Smith! LT is the best player in the game in my opinion. Steve Smith has a ways to go in probably most peoples opinons as well. Randy Moss makes a difference in any game he plays in. If you ask NFL defenses who scares them the most it's Randy Moss when it comes to WR's. There shouldn't be an argument here. Moss is better than Smith. Steve Smith has never had back to back 1,000 yard season. I do believe he's never scored 10+ TD's in a season. Has he ever went over a 100 catches? Panthersare1 is just being biased towards Smith right now because he's having a hell of a year. It would be like me going Javon Walker is the best in game a year ago. Was he? I never thought so.</div> Actually, panthersare#1 said that LT was the best at RB, but Steve Smith was the best WR. He didn't indicate which one he thought was better. I'm not saying panthers is right, but you can't call him out for being bias when there are more facts to support his argument than there are that support Vick being a decent QB. (Did you see Vick's miserable passing stats yesterday? It's no wonder the Falcons couldn't put the Saints away.) Notice that I didn't call out Bearsfan because he's not prone to fall for hype over actual production and, agree or disagree with him, his use of logic is more consistant. The only reason I bring up Vick is to point out that the arguments your using to refute panthersare#1 fly in the face of the arguments you use to defend Vick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>Why are you bringing up the Falcons being 0-4 without Vick? Win-loss records belong to TEAMS! TEAMS! T-E-A-M-S! Your trying to have it both ways to suit your bias. The Panthers are doing much better than the Raiders and Steve Smith is getting into the endzone more than Randy Moss, so there is validation to Steve Smith performing better than Randy Moss so far this season. Try to learn to be consistant with the logic behind your arguments.</div> I love how you ignore the statement that the Falcons are a BETTER TEAM with Vick as their QB. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, panthersare#1 said that LT was the best at RB, but Steve Smith was the best WR. He didn't indicate which one he thought was better. I'm not saying panthers is right, but you can't call him out for being bias when there are more facts to support his argument than there are that support Vick being a decent QB. (Did you see Vick's miserable passing stats yesterday? It's no wonder the Falcons couldn't put the Saints away.) Notice that I didn't call out Bearsfan because he's not prone to fall for hype over actual production and, agree or disagree with him, his use of logic is more consistant. The only reason I bring up Vick is to point out that the arguments your using to refute panthersare#1 fly in the face of the arguments you use to defend Vick.</div> I provided my reasoning but you seem to continue to ignore it for some reason. I will say it again. Panthersare1 has continued to avoid the question Was Mushin Muhammed the best WR last year. I didn't ask if he was the most physical. The BEST. Again I look at the best WR is someone who puts FEAR in the eyes of defensive coordinators and defenders. I don't think Steve Smith does. I do think Randy Moss does though. To quote who some say is one of the best coaches ever in Bill Belichek. "I never had to prepare to defend one player like I did Randy Moss" When coaches say that about Steve Smith then I'll consider him in the elite ranks of WR's. I believe Panthers is being a little biased to the fact that Smith is the best WR. I like Steve Smith. He's one of my favorite players. I got the jersey to prove it. I don't consider him elite YET.
Okay, Porky, I will concede that perhaps we are looking at the argument with different parameters. You seem to be taking the whole career into account and I'm looking at this from a 2005-06 perspective. RIGHT NOW, panthers can say that Steve Smith is playing a little better than Randy Moss and that's not an outrageous statement to make. Is it bias? Yeah, but the continual defense of Michael Vick is more bias. Michael Vick sucked yesterday. His stat line proves that, but he is still getting credit for the win. What I'm saying is that there is more substance to saying that Steve Smith is currently outperforming Randy Moss than to suggest that Michael Vick had anything to do with his team winning yesterday. I'm saying that your not applying the same standards to each player when judging them and that's being bias. By the way, I'm not surprised by the Belichick quote. Belichick is a master of making sure that his team is not an overwhelming favorite.
You know, there are many good RB's like Edgerrin James, Shawn Alexander, Ricky Williams, Jerome Bettis, Ahman Green, and Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, and Priest Holmes so are you sure LaDainian Tomlinson is even the best RB?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, Porky, I will concede that perhaps we are looking at the argument with different parameters. You seem to be taking the whole career into account and I'm looking at this from a 2005-06 perspective. RIGHT NOW, panthers can say that Steve Smith is playing a little better than Randy Moss and that's not an outrageous statement to make. Is it bias? Yeah, but the continual defense of Michael Vick is more bias. Michael Vick sucked yesterday. His stat line proves that, but he is still getting credit for the win. What I'm saying is that there is more substance to saying that Steve Smith is currently outperforming Randy Moss than to suggest that Michael Vick had anything to do with his team winning yesterday. I'm saying that your not applying the same standards to each player when judging them and that's being bias. By the way, I'm not surprised by the Belichick quote. Belichick is a master of making sure that his team is not an overwhelming favorite.</div> The way I look at it I can't just say someones the best because of 6 good games so far. It's just the way I think and who I am. Vick did play bad yesterday no doubt about it but the Falcons won and thats why it's really overlooked. As long as Atlanta is winning games I don't see a reason to make a bid change such as moving Matt Schaub to the starter. They've already invested a lot in Vick and like him or not he is their starting QB. I've accepted it and others should to. Maybe if I would care more about the sitauition but I'm not a Falcon fan. I do think Schaub has some ability to be a starting caliber QB. I do think it would be wise for Atlanta to trade him next year to a team that needs a starting QB so he has a chance and they could get a relatively high draft choice. Maybe you don't think that but I thats my opinion. We look at things from different perspectives which is expected. Remember that.
I usually don't say someone is the best after six games either, but if the topic is, "Who's the best player in the NFL?" and "at the present time" is understood, then you might have to mention players who are playing best during the current season. Steve Smith was injured last year, but the year before that Smith was sensational, so he does have more than six good games. In fact, Steve Smith was a star on a team that went to the Super Bowl and that's something Randy Moss hasn't been. Smith has been great this year too, so while saying that Steve Smith is the best WR may be bias on panthersare#!'s part, there is some merit in Steve Smith being one of the best WRs in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I usually don't say someone is the best after six games either, but if the topic is, "Who's the best player in the NFL?" and "at the present time" is understood, then you might have to mention players who are playing best during the current season. Steve Smith was injured last year, but the year before that Smith was sensational, so he does have more than six good games. In fact, Steve Smith was a star on a team that went to the Super Bowl and that's something Randy Moss hasn't been. Smith has been great this year too, so while saying that Steve Smith is the best WR may be bias on panthersare#!'s part, there is some merit in Steve Smith being one of the best WRs in the league.</div> Then Tom Brady is the best player in the NFL if you look at it that way. He's the best player on the team that won Super Bowls 3 out of the last 4 years. I don't think of it like that. It takes a surrounding cast of teammates to get to the Super Bowl. Such as Carolina had in 2003. Moss has had far more sucessful seasons than Smith individual wise. To me the best player is an individual award and LT and Shaun Alexander are the two best and have been playing at a level for the past 4 or 5 seasons. Smith has only had 1 good year and now this 6 game span. I consider him a comback player of the year but not best player. Moss,Owens,Harrison and the very underrated Torry Holt and Hines Ward are a step above Steve Smith so far overall wise. Now if Smith continues this play all year long then I would rank him in that level. Also what seperates Randy Moss from Steve Smith in my opinion. You referred to Steve Smith having a sensational year in 2003. That would of been considered an average or "off" year for Randy Moss. Thats why I consider Moss on a higher level than Smith.
Randy Moss isnt even on the NFL top 30 in recieving yards!!!!!! Steve Smith has 2 more TDs than any other WR this year. He is #2 in recieving yards also. Right now the best Moss, is Santana.
