Trade Larry Brown for a box of Lucky Charms, I think the 4 leaf clovers found in the box will result in more wins than he can generate. I don't see how people can agree with Larry's coaching. What is calling your players out in public going to do to your team other than hurt the chemistry and make them not want to listen to you even more. I have lost all the respect I've ever had for L.B during his tenure in NYK.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Trade Larry Brown for a box of Lucky Charms, I think the 4 leaf clovers found in the box will result in more wins than he can generate. I don't see how people can agree with Larry's coaching. What is calling your players out in public going to do to your team other than hurt the chemistry and make them not want to listen to you even more. I have lost all the respect I've ever had for L.B during his tenure in NYK.</div> 1. Criticizing players publicly is something Brown has always done with great success. Ask Billups and Iverson since they both went though the same thing. 2. A bunch of other very solid coaches do the exact same thing: Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles and Phil Jackson. 3. If players dont listen to the coach they should be moved. There is absolutely no excuse for a player not doing what his coach tells him. NONE! 4. Name a coach that you think can do better. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Criticizing players publicly is something Brown has always done with great success. Ask Billups and Iverson since they both went though the same thing.</div> It hasn't worked in New York so far. We'll have to see next season, I guess. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2. A bunch of other very solid coaches do the exact same thing: Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles and Phil Jackson.</div> Brown has really taking the criticizing to another level. I've heard coaches saying things like "he's playing soft" or something of that nature. Never have I heard a coach call a player delusional, especially to a 20-year-old second year player. Since then, you can tell Ariza was never the same. He just lost too much confidence. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3. If players dont listen to the coach they should be moved. There is absolutely no excuse for a player not doing what his coach tells him. NONE!</div> Well, Larry has a lot of the players under his nose. We were terrible on defense, but he kept our best defender inactive for a long time. David Lee is JUST getting minutes and should be getting Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor's minutes. Last month Crawford wasn’t getting his due minutes, either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Name a coach that you think can do better.</div> Herb Williams.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Name a coach that you think can do better. Herb Williams.</div> AMEEEEN to that. I do really think that Herb Williams would do a better job. Because he doesn't talk trash about the players in the media.He find's a way to get them to improve by talking to them and believe in them. That's why He has so much respect and confidence around the Knicks team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">It hasn't worked in New York so far. We'll have to see next season, I guess.</div> Obviously it hasnt worked so far and it wont work next season until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Brown has really taking the criticizing to another level. I've heard coaches saying things like "he's playing soft" or something of that nature. Never have I heard a coach call a player delusional, especially to a 20-year-old second year player. Since then, you can tell Ariza was never the same. He just lost too much confidence.</div> The criticism would not have gone to another level if the players would respond and they wont respond until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry. He can take the criticism to any level he deems necessary. Afterall he's the one with the history of winning so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. As for Ariza... please Ariza was the same old player before and after the comments. High energy, solid defense and absolutely no jumpshot and little ball handling skills to speak of. I told you he was the second coming of Shandon Anderson but you didnt want to hear it. And if you havent heard of a sports coach at any level making those sort of comments than I dont know what so say. Alot worse is probably said at the high school level in all sports. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, Larry has a lot of the players under his nose. We were terrible on defense, but he kept our best defender inactive for a long time. David Lee is JUST getting minutes and should be getting Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor's minutes. Last month Crawford wasn?t getting his due minutes, either.</div> You're second guessing the man you called the greatest coach in the business? While a solid defender, Ariza's defense wasnt good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. And Lee doesnt bring what Rose and Taylor bring to the table which is why Lee didnt get as many minutes as he should have. People were talking about trading Jamal Crawford last month so it's pretty obvious why he wasnt getting minutes. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Herb Williams.</div> Funny. We tried that last season and we were just as bad as we were with Lenny Wilkens. Herb Williams also had a better team than the one we have now in a weaker conference. I always get a laugh when I hear people blame Larry Brown.. Isiah Thomas built a team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted and now the team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted are losing and people are blaming the person, who before the season began, they considered the best coach in the NBA. I guess Trevor Ariza and Eddy Curry arent the only confused ones. I mean it's pretty simple math to me: Team of Overpaid Unwanted Losers= Loser Team. But I suppose it's easier to blame the coach than to accept the fact that the team is the problem. I hope it helps you guys sleep at night. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously it hasnt worked so far and it wont work next season until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry.</div> Sixer and Pistons and fans called Iverson and Billups bums too. And Brown is on record saying Curry is ?key to the team? and ?better than anyone in the 2006 draft.? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The criticism would not have gone to another level if the players would respond and they wont respond until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry. He can take the criticism to any level he deems necessary. Afterall he's the one with the history of winning so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. As for Ariza... please Ariza was the same old player before and after the comments. High energy, solid defense and absolutely no jumpshot and little ball handling skills to speak of. I told you he was the second coming of Shandon Anderson but you didnt want to hear it. And if you havent heard of a sports coach at any level making those sort of comments than I dont know what so say. Alot worse is probably said at the high school level in all sports.</div> Marbury actually responded well. He did his best to do everything that Brown said. That?s why this whole Starbury thing came. He wants to play his way instead of Brown?s. Ariza had no handle or a jumper, but Brown played him at point guard for some reason when Marbury was injured in January. He was terrible on offense. So? The Knicks are terrible on defense. And I have heard worst? trust me. However, that stuff is said behind closed doors, while Brown is spilling it out to the media. Two very different cases. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're second guessing the man you called the greatest coach in the business? While a solid defender, Ariza's defense wasnt good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. And Lee doesnt bring what Rose and Taylor bring to the table which is why Lee didnt get as many minutes as he should have. People were talking about trading Jamal Crawford last month so it's pretty obvious why he wasnt getting minutes.</div> I had no idea Brown would coach this terrible. There?s no denying that. He said it himself and basically said he doesn?t deserve the money he?s getting. We have a different starting lineup every other game and you expect there to be chemistry? Rose and Taylor bring other things to the table? Like what? Selfishness? Turnovers? Maurice Taylor is a bum. Plain and simple. He?s selfish, a somewhat decent scorer, but that?s about it. By the way, did you see what he did tonight against the Bobcats? That ugly, fast break scoop shot instead of feeding an open Jamal Crawford? We?re more effective without him. While I like Malik Rose?s heart and locker room presence, he is terrible. He?s absolutely terrible on offense. Did you know he shoots 37% from the field? And his defense is overrated. He?s just about average at best. Last month was March meaning Crawford couldn?t have been discussed in trades. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny. We tried that last season and we were just as bad as we were with Lenny Wilkens. Herb Williams also had a better team than the one we have now in a weaker conference. I always get a laugh when I hear people blame Larry Brown.. Isiah Thomas built a team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted and now the team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted are losing and people are blaming the person, who before the season began, they considered the best coach in the NBA. I guess Trevor Ariza and Eddy Curry arent the only confused ones. I mean it's pretty simple math to me: Team of Overpaid Unwanted Losers= Loser Team. But I suppose it's easier to blame the coach than to accept the fact that the team is the problem. I hope it helps you guys sleep at night.</div> I actually think the loss of Allan Houston was bigger than most people think. Of our 49 losses, 30 were by 6 points or less?a clear indication we couldn?t close out games properly. Regardless of how the team was built, it was not built to be the worst team in the NBA (we might be slightly better than Portland though). Even if we didn?t make the playoffs, we should not be this bad. The man said it: ?I need to do a better job coaching.? That should explain it. And every time he says it (about every game before he got his life threatening tummy ache ) I just get flashbacks to team USA. By the way, it reminds me: wasn?t he not playing LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Amare Stoudemire, and a bunch of other guys who should have been playing? Anyway, I think Larry Brown should be fired.
Attacking Brown's coaching, or saying that another coach could do better, really assumes that this team had a chance of contention or even playing well in the first place. There was none. Coming into this season there was some optimism among Knicks fans, because of the considerable talent and big names that Isiah had acquired. But, in hindsight, the team was doomed to fail from the start. A lack of chemistry, teamwork, selflessness or motivation has plagued most of the players for their careers. Now say Herb Williams, or whatever coach suits your preference, coached them this year. You get a consistent starting lineup and minutes and less public criticism. How much better would the team be? Maybe 4 or 5 games, maximum, because too many of the players need the ball, there wouldn't be enough minutes to hand around and countless other problems that follow players with bad attitudes. Not enough to warrant the amount of Anti-Larry Brown threads I've seen. Get rid of Brown this season, and in a best-case scenario, the Knicks would be out of the playoffs and I'm sure people would find some other issue to shift their blame from the ever-present problem of crappy management. People looking at the Brown signing over the offseason seemed to think that it would push the Knicks at least to the 8th spot. But this team is full of players that are the exact opposite of what he needs. And how often has he immediately created a contending team? Outside of Detroit, Brown's first year is usually spent weeding out what he doesn't want and turning around the direction. The 2nd season is usually where the team sees a dramatic increase in wins. And I'm even doubting that the Knicks will see that, because Isiah has only compounded the problem this season. Really, blaming anybody but Isiah Thomas for what has happened the last few seasons, and what will happen next few, is pointless. You can't really point out any of the players on this team as worth building around, and the franchise is a mess financially. Brown never stood a chance.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Attacking Brown's coaching, or saying that another coach could do better, really assumes that this team had a chance of contention or even playing well in the first place. There was none. Coming into this season there was some optimism among Knicks fans, because of the considerable talent and big names that Isiah had acquired. But, in hindsight, the team was doomed to fail from the start. A lack of chemistry, teamwork, selflessness or motivation has plagued most of the players for their careers. Now say Herb Williams, or whatever coach suits your preference, coached them this year. You get a consistent starting lineup and minutes and less public criticism. How much better would the team be? Maybe 4 or 5 games, maximum, because too many of the players need the ball, there wouldn't be enough minutes to hand around and countless other problems that follow players with bad attitudes. Not enough to warrant the amount of Anti-Larry Brown threads I've seen. Get rid of Brown this season, and in a best-case scenario, the Knicks would be out of the playoffs and I'm sure people would find some other issue to shift their blame from the ever-present problem of crappy management.</div> I wholeheartedly disagree. I don?t remember us getting any considerable big names in the offseason. We traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson and Nate Robinson, and Mike Sweetney and Tim Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis. You say a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued the team, so how do you expect the Knicks to gain chemistry when setting an NBA record for different starting lineups in a season? How can they gain chemistry when one player plays 30 minutes one night and 0 the next? How can they gain chemistry when everyone fears what Brown is going to say about them next morning in the paper? That really brings the team apart if anything. The players have said numerous times they are confused by the ever-changing starting lineups and their inconsistent minutes. What makes it even worse is how he won?t play someone who actually produced the previous night. That?s mind-boggling to me. Trust me, I know this roster has its share of flaws, but there should be no way we?re in last place in the league. Ask yourself this: if Sam Mitchell coached the season like Larry Brown, would you want him fired? Larry Brown, by his own admission, has done a crappy job with this team. You can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah, but you can?t hide the facts because Brown is a ?Hall of Fame coach?. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People looking at the Brown signing over the offseason seemed to think that it would push the Knicks at least to the 8th spot. But this team is full of players that are the exact opposite of what he needs. And how often has he immediately created a contending team? Outside of Detroit, Brown's first year is usually spent weeding out what he doesn't want and turning around the direction. The 2nd season is usually where the team sees a dramatic increase in wins. And I'm even doubting that the Knicks will see that, because Isiah has only compounded the problem this season. Really, blaming anybody but Isiah Thomas for what has happened the last few seasons, and what will happen next few, is pointless. You can't really point out any of the players on this team as worth building around, and the franchise is a mess financially. Brown never stood a chance.</div> Well, some of the ?non-Larry? players were actually players he wanted. Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were actually players Larry Brown actually wanted, contrary to what most people believe. So, if you think about it, this is a mess Larry Brown helped to create. Big changes will likely be made, so it?s hard for any of us to tell exactly how the Knicks will fair next year, but I can tell you if Brown continues to coach this way, we won?t be any better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I wholeheartedly disagree. I don’t remember us getting any considerable big names in the offseason. We traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson and Nate Robinson, and Mike Sweetney and Tim Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis. You say a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued the team, so how do you expect the Knicks to gain chemistry when setting an NBA record for different starting lineups in a season? How can they gain chemistry when one player plays 30 minutes one night and 0 the next? How can they gain chemistry when everyone fears what Brown is going to say about them next morning in the paper? That really brings the team apart if anything. The players have said numerous times they are confused by the ever-changing starting lineups and their inconsistent minutes. What makes it even worse is how he won’t play someone who actually produced the previous night. That’s mind-boggling to me. Trust me, I know this roster has its share of flaws, but there should be no way we’re in last place in the league. Ask yourself this: if Sam Mitchell coached the season like Larry Brown, would you want him fired? Larry Brown, by his own admission, has done a crappy job with this team. You can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah, but you can’t hide the facts because Brown is a “Hall of Fame coach”.</div> Your still missing the point. I'll address the small details first though. By big names I meant to emphasize the amount of movement the Knicks did during the offseason. And there's no denying the amount of optimism that was among Knicks fans about the new additions prior to the season. Looking back, I can safely say that most of that optimism and hype was misplaced. I said a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued these players throughout their careers, not this team. The real point that you should have addressed was that even if you brought in a coach that addressed all of the problems you had with Brown this year (inconsistent lineups, minutes and public criticism), this collection of talent would still have problems with distributing touches and minutes, as well as managing egos. Thats because all of these players have been unable to shake these problems wherever they've been. You say that you can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah? Not some, but the majority of the blame should be with Thomas. You're understandably angry that Brown has allowed this team to be possibly the worst in the league. But I can't understand why more Knicks fans aren't angry that this team, with its huge payroll and amount of hype, has a ceiling of about 4 or 5 games better than it has been so far. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, some of the “non-Larry” players were actually players he wanted. Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were actually players Larry Brown actually wanted, contrary to what most people believe. So, if you think about it, this is a mess Larry Brown helped to create. Big changes will likely be made, so it’s hard for any of us to tell exactly how the Knicks will fair next year, but I can tell you if Brown continues to coach this way, we won’t be any better</div> I don't buy into Brown actually wanting Marbury and Francis at the same time. And I don't believe that he would have wanted Isiah to trade the Hardaway and Davis contracts, which would have given him him the oppurtunity to bring his own type of players. He may have communicated a "wishlist," but if Isiah were a competent GM he would have had a limit to how much he was willing to give up for those players. I'm sure Brown would have understood. Unfortunately Isiah has never shown patience (something necessary for a rebuilding team), and if its true, like you say, that the team will make moves this year, than I have a hard time blaming Brown for anything that happens the next few seasons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll address the small details first though. By big names I meant to emphasize the amount of movement the Knicks did during the offseason. And there's no denying the amount of optimism that was among Knicks fans about the new additions prior to the season. Looking back, I can safely say that most of that optimism and hype was misplaced. I said a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued these players throughout their careers, not this team.</div> I think Knick fans had a right to be excited. They had a great draft followed by the signing of a great coach. Little did they know he would coach this badly. Why should it matter what they did throughout their careers if they haven?t done it in New York? There only a select few selfish players on the Knicks: Mo? Taylor, and Steve Francis. I wouldn?t call Rose selfish, in fact I think he should actually be less passive. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The real point that you should have addressed was that even if you brought in a coach that addressed all of the problems you had with Brown this year (inconsistent lineups, minutes and public criticism), this collection of talent would still have problems with distributing touches and minutes, as well as managing egos. Thats because all of these players have been unable to shake these problems wherever they've been. You say that you can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah? Not some, but the majority of the blame should be with Thomas. You're understandably angry that Brown has allowed this team to be possibly the worst in the league. But I can't understand why more Knicks fans aren't angry that this team, with its huge payroll and amount of hype, has a ceiling of about 4 or 5 games better than it has been so far.</div> It?s really not as hard as it seems distributing touches and minutes. Brown never plays the people that actually produce. The only ego the Knicks had to deal with was Stephon Marbury and that was because Brown, on countless occasions, trashed Marbury in the media. I honestly think the Knicks would be good for 30+ wins had they been coached properly. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't buy into Brown actually wanting Marbury and Francis at the same time. And I don't believe that he would have wanted Isiah to trade the Hardaway and Davis contracts, which would have given him him the oppurtunity to bring his own type of players. He may have communicated a "wishlist," but if Isiah were a competent GM he would have had a limit to how much he was willing to give up for those players. I'm sure Brown would have understood. Unfortunately Isiah has never shown patience (something necessary for a rebuilding team), and if its true, like you say, that the team will make moves this year, than I have a hard time blaming Brown for anything that happens the next few seasons.</div> Well, who really knows? Brown said it himself so I think it?s pretty valid. I doubt it was just lip service, because Brown has never had a problem addressing the media about ANYTHING. There were some talks for Ratliff and Patterson, two Brown players, but the Blazers wanted expiring contracts, draft picks, and David Lee. Obviously the Knicks should have pulled out. The other Larry Brown player was Earl Watson, but he went to Seattle. The other player on the Knicks radar was Francis, not a first choice of Brown, but he did want Steve. He actually said he was a big fan of Steve. It depends what type of moves the Knicks make. If they make a blockbuster and acquire some of the rumored players (ex: Garnett, O?Neal) there future might not be as bad as it seems right now. Either way, I, and the rest of the Knick fans are prepared for whatever after experiencing this season.
I don't know what to say about the Knicks anymore....I feel retarded when thinking about them.....its just so unbearable. I hope Larry Brown is capable of mopping up Isiahs spills.
