How come when it comes to picking awards people always look at team records? Let's look at MVP for an example, Kobe is putting up the best numbers in the NBA, he's carried his team to the playoffs with a bad supporting cast. While Steve Nash is'nt even close to Kobe in numbers, but he is still going to get MVP just because his team is 2nd place in the Western confrence. I know Steve Nash is making the people around him better, but come on, when was the last time someone had a 62 point game and an 81 point game in the same season? I know Nash is going to win the MVP over Kobe just because he has the better team record. The MVP award deserves to go to the NBA's best player, not the NBA's best player on a top team. But how come they always look at the team record before they look at the player's stats or how they play?
Why does everyone look at points? But, I'd like to know the opinions of other people for the question about records.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">How come when it comes to picking awards people always look at team records? Let's look at MVP for an example, Kobe is putting up the best numbers in the NBA, he's carried his team to the playoffs with a bad supporting cast. While Steve Nash is'nt even close to Kobe in numbers, but he is still going to get MVP just because his team is 2nd place in the Western confrence. I know Steve Nash is making the people around him better, but come on, when was the last time someone had a 62 point game and an 81 point game in the same season? I know Nash is going to win the MVP over Kobe just because he has the better team record. The MVP award deserves to go to the NBA's best player, not the NBA's best player on a top team. But how come they always look at the team record before they look at the player's stats or how they play?</div> And how come your just looking at points?
I'm not just looking at points, I'm also saying Kobe carried the Lakers to the playoffs with a bad supporting cast.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know Steve Nash is making the people around him better</div> ^ You just said the reason yourself. A lot of players could be putting up better numbers if they were on the Lakers. I'm not saying they could score 81 points, but at the same time, you also don't want to name someone MVP just because of one game. It's not like Steve Nash isn't putting up good numbers either. Who was the last player to average 19 + ppg, 4 + rpg, and 10 + apg? Magic Johnson in the '90-91 season. In fact, you can drop that rpg number, and the only other player to average 19 + ppg and 10 + apg since then has been All-NBA teamer Tim Hardaway. It's not even like Bryant's stats are that much better than his peers. Look at his numbers compared to LeBron James', Allen Iverson's, and Dwyane Wade's. Kobe Bryant - 35.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 45% FG LeBron James - 31.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 48% FG Allen Iverson - 33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg, 2.0 spg, 45% FG Dwyane Wade - 27.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 6.8 apg, 2.0 spg, 50% FG You could make a case for either of the three players having better numbers, and that's not even considering Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, and Chauncey Billups, four players who have great stats and play for the NBA's top teams at the same time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">^ You just said the reason yourself. A lot of players could be putting up better numbers if they were on the Lakers. I'm not saying they could score 81 points, but at the same time, you also don't want to name someone MVP just because of one game. It's not like Steve Nash isn't putting up good numbers either. Who was the last player to average 19 + ppg, 4 + rpg, and 10 + apg? Magic Johnson in the '90-91 season. In fact, you can drop that rpg number, and the only other player to average 19 + ppg and 10 + apg since then has been All-NBA teamer Tim Hardaway. It's not even like Bryant's stats are that much better than his peers. Look at his numbers compared to LeBron James', Allen Iverson's, and Dwyane Wade's. Kobe Bryant - 35.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 45% FG LeBron James - 31.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 48% FG Allen Iverson - 33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg, 2.0 spg, 45% FG Dwyane Wade - 27.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 6.8 apg, 2.0 spg, 50% FG You could make a case for either of the three players having better numbers, and that's not even considering Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, and Chauncey Billups, four players who have great stats and play for the NBA's top teams at the same time.</div> Thanks for clearing all that up for me.
Ultimately, a player has to be measured by the extent he helps his team win. Plain individual stats don't cover all the variables that go into helping a team win. The media intuitively understands this, and that's why they take team record into account. But we can do better than simply look at team wins. Instead, why not look at "individual win-loss record" (available at 82games.com), which only takes into account game time when a particular player is on the court. So, a player "wins" or "loses" a game depending on if his team outscores (or is outscored by) the other team while he's on the court. Obviously it doesn't make sense for a player to get credit for or be penalized by what happens when he isn't on the court.
Well if you're putting up numbers on a losing team, what are you valuable to, the losing? So your value would be in your ability to lose games?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How come when it comes to picking awards people always look at team records? Let's look at MVP for an example, Kobe is putting up the best numbers in the NBA, he's carried his team to the playoffs with a bad supporting cast. While Steve Nash is'nt even close to Kobe in numbers, but he is still going to get MVP just because his team is 2nd place in the Western confrence. I know Steve Nash is making the people around him better, but come on, when was the last time someone had a 62 point game and an 81 point game in the same season? I know Nash is going to win the MVP over Kobe just because he has the better team record. The MVP award deserves to go to the NBA's best player, not the NBA's best player on a top team. But how come they always look at the team record before they look at the player's stats or how they play?</div> Your right- but your arguments to support that aren't. Basically I agree with you- Kobe should be MVP simply because of who is on his team. EVERY other MVP candidate this year has another all-star or former all-star on his team: Nash has- Shawn Merion, Raja Bell (who has a lot of playoff experience), Tim Thomas and for a while Kurt Thomas as well. Dwayne Wade has- Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Alonzo Mourning, and Shaq. Elton Brand has- A man who I personally hate but we all have to admit is a winner, Sam Cassel. Dirk Nowitzki has- Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry taking the load off him. LeBron James has- ...Zyldrunas Ilgaulskas... so yeah...LeBron is the closest of any of these guys to being in the same boat as Kobe lol. Chauncy has -Rip, Rasheed, Ben Wallace and also Tayshaun Prince who wasn't an All-star simply because he wasn't going to get voted in as a SF over Vince Carter. That aside, that's not even mentioning who the Pistons have coming off the Bench. So there you have it: All of the other MVP candidates have at least one all star or former all star on there team...Hell! Chauncy has like six!. Kobe has none. Yet they are still in the playoffs, on a roll,and no one would be that surprised if they pulled off a first round "upset". Forget about the numbers for a moment. Just look at where the Lakers are because of him and where they'd be without him- it's that simple.
Let me first say this : I'm a huge Shaq fan, so I really despise Kobe. I think he blew up the entire 2004 Laker team that was destined for glory. He was/is a ballhog and if Phil would allow him to, he would take every shot. But he's the MVP... The guy carried a really,really bad Lakers team all the way to the 7th seed in the play-offs, which is remarkable. Before the season I expected the Lakers to be a top 5 lottery team. He did things this season which no one expected to happen ever again, such as averaging 35PPG, scoring above 2500 points this season, and of course, the 81point game. I know the MVP shouldn't be chosen by points scored or by averages, but the fact is Kobe led the Lakers to the play-offs with his remarkable achievements, time and time again. When Odom,Parker or Brown were again messing things up, Kobe took over, and many nights he had 40 at the end of regulation, pulling out a win for the Lakers. Believe me, I hate Kobe, but in my eyes, he's the MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ilive4ball:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash has- Shawn Merion, Raja Bell (who has a lot of playoff experience), Tim Thomas and for a while Kurt Thomas as well. </div>Funny how you bring up Bell, Tim and Kurt Thomas as "all-star or former all-star" when the general concensus is Lamar Odom is better than any of them. Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm aren't scrubs either.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ilive4ball:</div><div class="quote_post">Your right- but your arguments to support that aren't. Basically I agree with you- Kobe should be MVP simply because of who is on his team. EVERY other MVP candidate this year has another all-star or former all-star on his team: Nash has- Shawn Merion, Raja Bell (who has a lot of playoff experience), Tim Thomas and for a while Kurt Thomas as well. Dwayne Wade has- Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Alonzo Mourning, and Shaq. Elton Brand has- A man who I personally hate but we all have to admit is a winner, Sam Cassel. Dirk Nowitzki has- Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry taking the load off him. LeBron James has- ...Zyldrunas Ilgaulskas... so yeah...LeBron is the closest of any of these guys to being in the same boat as Kobe lol. Chauncy has -Rip, Rasheed, Ben Wallace and also Tayshaun Prince who wasn't an All-star simply because he wasn't going to get voted in as a SF over Vince Carter. That aside, that's not even mentioning who the Pistons have coming off the Bench. So there you have it: All of the other MVP candidates have at least one all star or former all star on there team...Hell! Chauncy has like six!. Kobe has none. Yet they are still in the playoffs, on a roll,and no one would be that surprised if they pulled off a first round "upset". Forget about the numbers for a moment. Just look at where the Lakers are because of him and where they'd be without him- it's that simple.</div> You make it sound like Kobe has nothing to work with at all. He has Lamar Odom who is a triple double threat every night, and Kwame Brown, one of the best post defenders in the NBA. Not to mention, his coach is one of the greatest of all time. LeBron has Big Z who has been playing injured, and Drew Gooden. How is Kobe any more deserving than LeBron, just because he scored 81 points? James' numbers are just as impressive as Kobe's.
I think the bottom line will be on who makes everyone else on their team better. How did Kobe make those other guys better? I think he was out there on his own all year long. The Cavs don't just have Big Z, umm...Flip Murray and they also have some key veteran players that compliment their team...ie. Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall. I think Lebron takes it against Kobe because Lebron not only plays well, but makes everyone else better too. And because of this factor, Nash before Kobe.
Well, if you take it by the number, LeBron should me the MVP imo. But look how good record has Nash made with Phoenix. Ok, he has The Matrix. But the matchups for the Suns we're difficult. You have to give props to Mike D'Antoni too of course, so I'm not agree that Kobe should be the MVP. I respect him and he may be the best player atm, but still, MVP ?
why are you looking at points? Just because kobe scored 62 and 81 doesnt mean he's the MVP. You have to look at the team record. Players who win MVP have to be overall good like have a good team record. Its not judt individual stats that matter, it is also about how well your team does. So in my opinion i think nash deserves it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post"> I know Steve Nash is making the people around him better</div> You made a great point right there. That is what a MVP does. Steve Nash brings so much to the court and always gives 110% every night. Every single player on the Phoenix Suns are having a career year. Just look at James Jones. He was pretty much nothing in Indiana and now he is one of there premiere role players. and that is because of Steve Nash. Phoenix has the 3rd best record in the West and they are holding the 2nd seed in the West. And they don't even have Amare back. I guarantee nobody saw that one coming. Steve Nash is having even a better year than he had last year when he won MVP, so why shouldn't he get the MVP of the league this year? You could also throw Shawm Marion into the MVP race. But that is another story!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shor_T15:</div><div class="quote_post">You made a great point right there. That is what a MVP does. Steve Nash brings so much to the court and always gives 110% every night. Every single player on the Phoenix Suns are having a career year. Just look at James Jones. He was pretty much nothing in Indiana and now he is one of there premiere role players. and that is because of Steve Nash. Phoenix has the 3rd best record in the West and they are holding the 2nd seed in the West. And they don't even have Amare back. I guarantee nobody saw that one coming. Steve Nash is having even a better year than he had last year when he won MVP, so why shouldn't he get the MVP of the league this year? You could also throw Shawm Marion into the MVP race. But that is another story!!!</div> Oh yeah and on't forget about Boris Diaw. He came out of no where. I'm glad that they threw him in the trade. He is a lot better fit for Phoenix than Joe Johnson was. And why do you think Boris is so good because of Steve Nash. He is learning from Steve Nash. Boris Diaw has had like 2-3 triple doubles this year. WOW!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">You make it sound like Kobe has nothing to work with at all. He has Lamar Odom who is a triple double threat every night, and Kwame Brown, one of the best post defenders in the NBA. Not to mention, his coach is one of the greatest of all time.</div> Lamar is Mr. Inconsistant. He's had a decent run since the All Star game but he's not a triple double threat every night. He used to show up once every four games and he's reduced it to once every two games. Lamar has been playing great for the last two months but before that he was mediocre. Don't let his 15/9 stats fool you of how he played. As for the comment of Kwame being one of the best post players in the NBA, I can name 20 better. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron has Big Z who has been playing injured, and Drew Gooden. How is Kobe any more deserving than LeBron, just because he scored 81 points? James' numbers are just as impressive as Kobe's.</div> I don't know why LeBron is made out to have nobody. He has Damon Jones who is an underrated player. He shot 43% from the three point land last season with the Heat and is shooting 39% this season with the Cavs. Recently, he's also had Flip Murray who's a great clutch performer. LeBron also had Big Z who's playing through injury. However, alot of NBA players play through injuries and don't tell anyone with the risk of losing their spot or tp prevent other teams taking advantage of this. He has Donyell Marshall who's a pretty forward playing reduced minutes giving 10/6 a game. The last person on the list if Drew Gooden, who again is a solid player. LeBron has alot of talent around him. I can make a case for him having more talent then Elton Brand. Elton only has Sam Cassell and Cory Maggette has missed most of the season through injury. The Clippers are putting up the same win/loss record as the Cavs and they are playing in the West. LeBrons teammates are extremely overlooked as a bunch of nobodies.
