<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If hes that competive then why did he let them trade shaq. Cause truthfully the Lakers could have had a good chance at the title last year had they had shaq</div> First of, the reason Shaq left the Lakers wasn't all Kobe's fault. Shaq was getting old and he demanded alot of money and Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq that much considering his age, therefore he's heading in Kobe's direction. Kobe is the LA's favor, younger, has the potential to be like MJ, and with all that, it's a no brainer Dr. Buss leaning toward Kobe's shoulder. Second, a competitive guy would try to win a championship on his own. With a talent guy like Kobe, he obviously doesn't want his whole career to be overshadow by Shaq. A great example is Scootie Pippen, very talented player, unselfish, one of the 50 greatest players, but when you're talking about him, you obviously need to include Michael Jordan this and that. Pippen wouldn't be anywhere without MJ, that's a FACT. When you look at the Bulls francise, the majority of so called "experts" will give MJ most credit for their 6 titles run. Same situation as Kobe, when you're talking about the 3 championship runs, first you mentioned about Shaq, Kobe is 2nd. A competitive guy like Kobe won't accept that, neither do other great players. It got nothing to do with him being selfish, it's his competitive nature. If MJ is in Kobe's shoe, Shaq's teammate during their title runs, MJ would do the same crap because he and Kobe are so competitive that both of them want to go down as the best that every play the game. And if I have the talent like Kobe, I want to prove other ppl that I can win by myself too because I'm a competitive guy.
^ Not the same situation really. Kobe is so much younger than Shaq that Shaq staying wouldn't actually take anything away from him. If Miami was to win a championship last season, people would split the glory to Shaq and Wade, and Wade isn't as good as Kobe. If Shaq had stayed, he wouldn't be productive enough for people to say it's because of Shaq that things are happening anymore. The team wouldn't be as dominant, but still good. Does Kobe wanting to be alone make him competitive, or make him selfish? Is competitiveness wanting to win, or wanting to proove you're capable by yourself without great help? I don't know, people could argue that a truly competitive person does all they can to win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">This is stupid coming from you, with Kobe's heart and his drive to win, he will demand a lot of pressure from the owner to spend more money, then the owner will forces the GM to make something happen. Every teams want to be a winner. Maybe not toronto, but Orlando certainly. I don't think a guy like Kobe will let a francise down. Oh btw, Orlando wouldn't trade Tmac without him being asked first .</div> this is the statement i was arguing to <div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Second, a competitive guy would try to win a championship on his own. </div> thank u for proving that ur just a Kobe lover. I know hes good but get of his D!%k. Ur switchin ur story 4 him
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First of, the reason Shaq left the Lakers wasn't all Kobe's fault. Shaq was getting old and he demanded alot of money and Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq that much considering his age, therefore he's heading in Kobe's direction. Kobe is the LA's favor, younger, has the potential to be like MJ, and with all that, it's a no brainer Dr. Buss leaning toward Kobe's shoulder. Second, a competitive guy would try to win a championship on his own. With a talent guy like Kobe, he obviously doesn't want his whole career to be overshadow by Shaq. A great example is Scootie Pippen, very talented player, unselfish, one of the 50 greatest players, but when you're talking about him, you obviously need to include Michael Jordan this and that. Pippen wouldn't be anywhere without MJ, that's a FACT. When you look at the Bulls francise, the majority of so called "experts" will give MJ most credit for their 6 titles run. Same situation as Kobe, when you're talking about the 3 championship runs, first you mentioned about Shaq, Kobe is 2nd. A competitive guy like Kobe won't accept that, neither do other great players. It got nothing to do with him being selfish, it's his competitive nature. If MJ is in Kobe's shoe, Shaq's teammate during their title runs, MJ would do the same crap because he and Kobe are so competitive that both of them want to go down as the best that every play the game. And if I have the talent like Kobe, I want to prove other ppl that I can win by myself too because I'm a competitive guy.</div> i thought he left because he had problems with Kobe and wasnt that the reason Phil J. left? Didnt kobe start all this? Kobe created this mess, and had problems with Shaq and Jackson The deal for Lakers was like either keep shaq or keep bryant. and since shaq was old and kobe had a good future the lakers chose to keep Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^ Does Kobe wanting to be alone make him competitive, or make him selfish? Is competitiveness wanting to win, or wanting to proove you're capable by yourself without great help? I don't know, people could argue that a truly competitive person does all they can to win.</div> You're right, a truly competitive person would do anything they can to win. The problem is if you're a great player and has a chance to step down as the best to ever to play the game (i.e MJ), then you must prove you can win by yourself with other type of mix players rather than relying on just one individual dominant star, ie Shaq. No matter how many ring Kobe wins with Shaq, when his career is over, he can never be the best because these ppl will say Shaq is the main reason he win it. Does that annoying Kobe? If you're Kobe, would you want your whole career, all the rings you achieve and then all the glory is credit to Shaq mostly? How are you gonna live with that? The biggest example is Scottie Pippen, a great player by far. When Jordan retired for baseball, Pippen was having a great season with the Bulls, establishing himself as the first option superstar. Then once Jordan came back to the Bulls, and all the glory was shifting back to MJ, and Pippen became his sidekick again. Kobe doesn't want to be like Pippen, always get overshadow by another superstar. Stop all these crap about him being selfish, that bullnucker.To some degree, every stars are selfish. Kobe is a competitive freak, he likes to take the challenge, and that what make a great player and separating him from the others. Also, during the Lakers' championship run, it was Kobe who helped closing out the 4th quarter, Horry hitting the big shot, Fisher acting as a defensive flopper, Rick Fox playing like a true role player, and that how the Lakers won the championship. But Shaq always get the most credit for it, that is freaking annoying. Shaq can't win any shiet until Kobe became a man. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">thank u for proving that ur just a Kobe lover. I know hes good but get of his D!%k. Ur switchin ur story 4 him</div> You sound like an immature *beach! If it wasn't for the rape case, you probably sucking his D!$k too . Please grow up and realize how great Kobe is before it's too late <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i thought he left because he had problems with Kobe and wasnt that the reason Phil J. left? Didnt kobe start all this? Kobe created this mess, and had problems with Shaq and Jackson The deal for Lakers was like either keep shaq or keep bryant. and since shaq was old and kobe had a good future the lakers chose to keep Kobe.</div> See? this is how ppl misunderstand about Kobe because they didn't follow enough on the Lakers. Like I said, it wasn't entirely Kobe's fault that the Lakers . Part of the reason Phil left the Lakers was because Dr. Buss and him got into a disagreement about his contract, the direction Dr. Buss is going with. Dr. Buss wants Kobe, Phil wants Shaq Dr. Buss prefers a Run n Gun system like the Lakers' showtime, Phil prefers the slow pace, boring Triangle offense. Obviously it got to do with the guys in the front office. Although Phil did said Kobe was uncoachable, simply because a great player like Kobe cannot accept to be a 2nd option to Shaq and he didn't like all the offense run through Shaq, and that is what causing Kobe to disagree with Phil. (MJ will do the same thing if he's Kobe). But if you're thinking about it, If Phil didn't like Kobe, he wouldn't be back with the Lakers. So obviously it just like a father and a son arguing about picking the right gf, and in the end, everything works out and both are happy. And also if Shaq didn't demand a big contract after his contract expired in which Dr. Buss wasn't willing to pay considering his age, the Lakers wouldn't trade him. I'm not saying it isn't Kobe fault but to blame eveything on Kobe isn't fair. In the end, it is the owner who control the team for who's going and who's staying.
T Mac would have Kobe's titles and Kobe most likely wouldn't have any. I think Vince and Kobe would've made a great duo.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right, a truly competitive person would do anything they can to win. The problem is if you're a great player and has a chance to step down as the best to ever to play the game (i.e MJ), then you must prove you can win by yourself with other type of mix players rather than relying on just one individual dominant star, ie Shaq. No matter how many ring Kobe wins with Shaq, when his career is over, he can never be the best because these ppl will say Shaq is the main reason he win it. Does that annoying Kobe? If you're Kobe, would you want your whole career, all the rings you achieve and then all the glory is credit to Shaq mostly? How are you gonna live with that? The biggest example is Scottie Pippen, a great player by far. When Jordan retired for baseball, Pippen was having a great season with the Bulls, establishing himself as the first option superstar. Then once Jordan came back to the Bulls, and all the glory was shifting back to MJ, and Pippen became his sidekick again. Kobe doesn't want to be like Pippen, always get overshadow by another superstar. Stop all these crap about him being selfish, that bullnucker.To some degree, every stars are selfish. Kobe is a competitive freak, he likes to take the challenge, and that what make a great player and separating him from the others. Also, during the Lakers' championship run, it was Kobe who helped closing out the 4th quarter, Horry hitting the big shot, Fisher acting as a defensive flopper, Rick Fox playing like a true role player, and that how the Lakers won the championship. But Shaq always get the most credit for it, that is freaking annoying. Shaq can't win any shiet until Kobe became a man.</div> Like I said, by last year, Kobe would be the better player than Shaq anyways, so if they did win, anyone in their right mind would know it was not just because of Shaq. In the case of Jordan and Pippen, the age difference wasn't much, so it wasn't like if he waited till Jordan retired, Pippen would still be in his prime. With Kobe, if he continued to play with Shaq, he would be the better player already. He was already arguably the better player in 03-04 though not yet, but Shaq would be the one riding in Kobe's back now instead of the other way. Also about him being selfish, I was asking it as a question. What does that have to do with other superstars being selfish, when did I say they weren't? I don't understand this defensive front some people have with players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First of, the reason Shaq left the Lakers wasn't all Kobe's fault. Shaq was getting old and he demanded alot of money and Dr. Buss didn't want to pay Shaq that much considering his age, therefore he's heading in Kobe's direction. Kobe is the LA's favor, younger, has the potential to be like MJ, and with all that, it's a no brainer Dr. Buss leaning toward Kobe's shoulder. Second, a competitive guy would try to win a championship on his own. With a talent guy like Kobe, he obviously doesn't want his whole career to be overshadow by Shaq. A great example is Scootie Pippen, very talented player, unselfish, one of the 50 greatest players, but when you're talking about him, you obviously need to include Michael Jordan this and that. Pippen wouldn't be anywhere without MJ, that's a FACT. When you look at the Bulls francise, the majority of so called "experts" will give MJ most credit for their 6 titles run. Same situation as Kobe, when you're talking about the 3 championship runs, first you mentioned about Shaq, Kobe is 2nd. A competitive guy like Kobe won't accept that, neither do other great players. It got nothing to do with him being selfish, it's his competitive nature. If MJ is in Kobe's shoe, Shaq's teammate during their title runs, MJ would do the same crap because he and Kobe are so competitive that both of them want to go down as the best that every play the game. And if I have the talent like Kobe, I want to prove other ppl that I can win by myself too because I'm a competitive guy.</div> I still prefer T-Macs jumper over Kobes. And even Stevie Wonders can see that picking Kobe over Shaq was a dumbass move.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">I still prefer T-Macs jumper over Kobes. And even Stevie Wonders can see that picking Kobe over Shaq was a dumbass move.</div> Well, guess what? Because Stevie Wonders is a dumbass guy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, guess what? Because Stevie Wonders is a dumbass guy. </div> I guess it depends on what you like more: -A playoff team that has a clutch SG that is fun to watch. -A team with a dominant center that attracts other greats to sign for next to nothing just to play alongside him that is bound to win a championship sooner than later. Stevie Wonders has an IQ of 162.
Lakers wernt going to resign Shaq after he kept getting more out of shape, why is that hard for some people to understand?!? He was getting way big and older.. why not just make some cap room and get Odom and a few other guys. THey are in the playoffs now so obviously its working its time to stop crying and get over it. Why would Lakers give up Kobe whos the best player in the NBA for Shaq who is past his prime?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting amador08:</div><div class="quote_post">Lakers wernt going to resign Shaq after he kept getting more out of shape, why is that hard for some people to understand?!? He was getting way big and older.. why not just make some cap room and get Odom and a few other guys. THey are in the playoffs now so obviously its working its time to stop crying and get over it. Why would Lakers give up Kobe whos the best player in the NBA for Shaq who is past his prime?</div> Never argue with an idiot they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience-
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">Never argue with an idiot they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience-</div> Or never argue when you have been beat and you have no comeback to a proven point =)
