The NBA really needs to clarify the defenition of MVP, some say its the best player that has a stand out year, some say its the player that makes his team win. I have a problem with Nash winning it again, in my eyes the MVP should go to Kobe. Nash deserves it also, but it just seems wierd someone that had a historic NBA season, lost to some one that averages 18 points. I know Nash doesn't need to score to win but in the future when people see what Kobe did, or what Lebron did this year they will be in awe, and then they find out neither of those players won the MVP just because Nash is on a winning team. How come Jason Kidd didn't win multiple MVP's back when he was making his teamates alot better the way Nash is, How come Steve Nash has more MVP'S then Shaq, are they out of their mind! Although Nash is on the the best team out of this years Mvp candidates I just feel that its only fair to reward the MVP to the guy that does something classic, and will be remembered for years and years. How do you not reward someone that had a season like Kobe did? Its crazy, and no disrespect to Nash but hopefully Kobe gets revenge on Nash and wins this first round series.
The one thing that upsets me about someone winning the award twice in a row is when they didn't do anything different from last year. Tim Duncan for example, he won it over Kidd even though Kidd had turned New Jersey around that year. Nash hasn't really done anything different than what he did last year. Other players improved their teams records more than Nash did, and got better stats. I really hope that the loss of Amare didn't play a role in Nash winning the award. Before you claim that I'm hating check my sig.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">The one thing that upsets me about someone winning the award twice in a row is when they didn't do anything different from last year. Tim Duncan for example, he won it over Kidd even though Kidd had turned New Jersey around that year. Nash hasn't really done anything different than what he did last year.</div> That's a good point. The Suns are pretty much in the same place as last year, they won't get to the finals, they'll just have a good record. While LeBron at least got a taste of the playoffs for the first time in his career and improved the Cavs record by 8 wins. Congrats to Nash though, he does make players better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">Marion-career year Bell- Career year Barbosa- Career year Jones- Career year Diaw-Career year House- Career year Good Players??? YES! Nash makes these players that much better!</div> Career years that are related to shot attempts and more MPG are not neccesarily very impressive to me, I'm sorry. 3 guys on the Raptors had career years this season, some related to player improvement, others related to shot attempts and minutes, and also the teams overall shooting ability and pace allowing for more room to operate, and more shots. Or even all. Their career years are more related to the way the coach set up the system, and the amount of shots they get as opposed to <u>just</u> Nash being on the team. It's kinda like how everyone on the Bobcats get's a career year, it isn't really Brevin Knight's 9 APG, though it helps, but going from 18 minutes to 33 minutes or 7 shots to 10 shots gurantees a career year for any player, even the worst ones. A guy like House comes in to relieve Nash in the game, and doesn't actually play with him for the most part, and is having a career year too, not really a big deal there. Marion on the season averaged 26 PPG on 51% FG, and Diaw 12.3 APG without Nash, and Bell was out too in one or two of those games, so obviously they're quite capable players on their own. Bell averaged 12.3 PPG in 10 less minutes last season where he missed games due to injury. Play him 38 MPG last season, and he would've probably averaged more points. PG's make others better, we already know that. Nash is really not doing it any more than <u>some</u> (keyword) other guys are capable of. Leading the team, being extremely efficiency, being a very good passer, and all the other goodies are what should show his value, not the career year nonsense they like to show on TV. Nash himself is having a career year(s), so obviously the system, and the guys around him also helps his game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Other players improved their teams records more than Nash did, and got better stats. I really hope that the loss of Amare didn't play a role in Nash winning the award. </div> I don't know how you can even question this when everyone mentioning his MVP candidacy mentions how they lost Amare lol. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Although Nash is on the the best team out of this years Mvp candidates I just feel that its only fair to reward the MVP to the guy that does something classic, and will be remembered for years and years. How do you not reward someone that had a season like Kobe did? Its crazy, and no disrespect to Nash but hopefully Kobe gets revenge on Nash and wins this first round series.</div> Actually Dirk is on the best team out of the candidates.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how you can even question this when everyone mentioning his MVP candidacy mentions how they lost Amare lol.</div> Because it isn't as if other players didn't step their game up. It isn't as if the GMs didn't make changes despite their success last year. Marion is playing better, they have a defender now, and they added people who can shoot the three but don't do it recklessly like Q did. Besides, it's arguable that Nash made Amare what he was last year, so with Amare out it just gave Nash the chance to make someone else play well. Amare being out hurts the team, but it's also a new team. My main point is that you can't mention Amare being out as part of Nash's winning, because they lost a lot of other key parts as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tha CTown Knick:</div><div class="quote_post">No one is hating on Nash but the way I look at it, if you take away Kobe from the Lakers and take away Nash from the Suns who do you think whould be the better team? Atleast Suns would atleast still have Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion and some decent bench players. Who would the Lakers have? Lamar Odom and Smush Parker. Yup.. But still Nash did do his thing consistently so congrats I guess but I think this is crap right here..</div> Psh. If you take away Zach Randolph from the Blazers, who do they have? What about taking Joe Johnson from the Hawks? Dwight Howard from the Magic? Does that mean these guys should be MVP? That argument is totally ineffective.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Because it isn't as if other players didn't step their game up. It isn't as if the GMs didn't make changes despite their success last year. Marion is playing better, they have a defender now, and they added people who can shoot the three but don't do it recklessly like Q did. Besides, it's arguable that Nash made Amare what he was last year, so with Amare out it just gave Nash the chance to make someone else play well. Amare being out hurts the team, but it's also a new team. My main point is that you can't mention Amare being out as part of Nash's winning, because they lost a lot of other key parts as well.</div> You don't make someone average 37/10 in the playoffs against the league's best defense. Nash makes Amare better, but Amare is still going to be great with or without Nash.
All the Nash haters are going to come out now, but answer this question if steve won last year and people are cool with that and this year he improved his own stats while still leading his team to well over 50 wins despite losing amare, how does he not still deserve to win?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't make someone average 37/10 in the playoffs against the league's best defense.</div> The playoffs aren't what got Nash the award last year. Don't try to act like Amare doesn't benefit from playing with Nash. Amare benefits from the pick and roll almost as much as Tony Parker.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Leading the team, being extremely efficiency, being a very good passer, and all the other goodies are what should show his value, not the career year nonsense they like to show on TV.</div> Good point, and when people are talking about career years, look at the guys he left behind. So many people consider career years a statistical thing, so how about Dirk Nowitzki. When Nash left, Dirk's stats went up - and he's having his "career year" this year. One of the most important stats point guards help their teammates with are the %s, and Dirk's %s are up in everything, so it's not just taking more shots that makes his PPG raise. People act like Nash is totally responsible for everything the Suns have done, but that's not completely true. Sure, the Suns would be a lot worse without him, but without that system, Nash would also be worse without the Suns. And to Brasco, it's just about the history. Nash winning last year was a fluke, but winning twice puts him, like many have mentioned, with players like Magic and Kareem, and now he has more MVPs than Shaq. That's just not right.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because it isn't as if other players didn't step their game up. It isn't as if the GMs didn't make changes despite their success last year. Marion is playing better, they have a defender now, and they added people who can shoot the three but don't do it recklessly like Q did. Besides, it's arguable that Nash made Amare what he was last year, so with Amare out it just gave Nash the chance to make someone else play well. Amare being out hurts the team, but it's also a new team. My main point is that you can't mention Amare being out as part of Nash's winning, because they lost a lot of other key parts as well</div> I'm not disagreeing with you that it shouldn't be used as a main factor, but MANY people based their votes on that. Also Nash helped Amare to have to handle the ball less, and the whole teams plus his ability to shoot opened up the lane for him, but Amare averaged 24.8 PPG on 48% FG in 03-04, in his first try as a first option with Barbosa at PG. I think Considering he also improved his shot and his whole game going into 04-05, Nash definately did not make him good, he just helped improve his play like good PG's do, but Amare was already a capable 25+ PPG 50% FG guy that season.
Kobe's scoring isn't as valuable as what Nash creates and sacrafices on the basketball for his teammates. Nash sacrafices his scoring (could average 22-24 ppg considering he's a 52% FG shooter Kobe = dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble and waits for something to happend by himself. Nash has confidence in Marion to Pat Burke. Kobe dominates the ball, and is the best scorer in the NBA no question. Is his team okay? Yes, they've made the 7th seed. Will Kobe's scorer ever take the Lakers to the elite level? Never. Nash's value has taken Phoneix to the elite level. D'Antoni ran the same offense with Leandrhino Barbosa/Joe Johnson in 03. Suns only averaged 94 points per game. When Nash arrived, their PPG total went 110 per game. Basically a 16+ different. Now this season, Nash still did it, and had an as good of year, if not better than last season playing without the Suns leading 26-30 ppg scorer, Amare Stat. They averaged 108 points without him! Stop feeling bitter, Nash has good timing to play at his prime.
Sorry Suns fans, congrats to Nash for winning MVP, BUT.............. KOBE COMIN' OUT WITH AUTHORITY TONIGHT. LOCKDOWN NASH, KOBE! MAKE THE MOVE PHIL, KOBE ON NASH, IT'LL RUIN NASH COMPLETELY.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">While I think Dirk or Lebron should've won it, Nash did well and was also deserving. He was a lot more deserving than last year when it was too much about hype, the underdog, and flawed analysis of the Suns losing without him. Also why can't people just say Nash had a great season and did well. I hate all these people with the stupid Diaw played great, which really wasn't related to Nash. Blah blah journey man did good this year, or this player was a cast away and now did good. The main guys on the Suns [Marion, KT, Bell, Barbosa, and later Tim Thomas] outside of Diaw were all already good players. How about people look at this. Nash had a very good season, was the most efficienct scorer in the league, led the league in assists, was a leader for his team, and was a winner, none of this other nonsense.</div> i dont think its nonsense at all. nash makes the people around him better...thats his game. you call that nonsense? why is it so far fetched that nash's play had something to do with their games being elevated? sure some of the other factors may come into play as well. fact is, diaw got starting minutes in atl and never even came close to the type of player he was this year. was it other factors? probably...was nash and his game a contributing factor? absolutely imo
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's scoring isn't as valuable as what Nash creates and sacrafices on the basketball for his teammates. Nash sacrafices his scoring (could average 22-24 ppg considering he's a 52% FG shooter Kobe = dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble and waits for something to happend by himself. Nash has confidence in Marion to Pat Burke. Kobe dominates the ball, and is the best scorer in the NBA no question. Is his team okay? Yes, they've made the 7th seed. Will Kobe's scorer ever take the Lakers to the elite level? Never. Nash's value has taken Phoneix to the elite level. D'Antoni ran the same offense with Leandrhino Barbosa/Joe Johnson in 03. Suns only averaged 94 points per game. When Nash arrived, their PPG total went 110 per game. Basically a 16+ different. Now this season, Nash still did it, and had an as good of year, if not better than last season playing without the Suns leading 26-30 ppg scorer, Amare Stat. They averaged 108 points without him! Stop feeling bitter, Nash has good timing to play at his prime.</div> That's funny. Nash is making 1st NBA Team, so is Kobe. Kobe is making 1st All-Defensive Team, is Nash? What is that? Nash isn't going to be on a defensive team? DERR, LETS WATCH MARION PLAY DEFENSE!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">D'Antoni ran the same offense with Leandrhino Barbosa/Joe Johnson in 03. Suns only averaged 94 points per game. </div> Are you sure you watched them? He definately didn't, you can't run this kind of offense unless you have finishers and shooters. If the Suns team was: PG: Nash SG: Trenton Hassell SF: Shawn Marion PF: Antonio McDyess C: Steven Hunter They definately could not play the same way because the whole spacing on the floor changes dramatically. Even one simple guy like Raja Bell changes things for them on offense because of his ability to shoot the ball. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think its nonsense at all. nash makes the people around him better...thats his game. you call that nonsense? why is it so far fetched that nash's play had something to do with their games being elevated? sure some of the other factors may come into play as well. fact is, diaw got starting minutes in atl and never even came close to the type of player he was this year. was it other factors? probably...was nash and his game a contributing factor? absolutely imo</div> Diaw played 18 MPG in ATL last season as a rookie coming out of France, he played 25.6 MPG. He started less than half his games in ATL. Starting minutes is 30+ MPG, I'm not sure what you mean by he played starters minutes. Yes Nash makes guys better, and ultimately, that's what PG's are supposed to do. Paul, Kidd, Billups, and even Knight on a losing team all do that too. It bothers me when people compare how a PG makes his teammates better to the role of a scorer or other positional player on a team. Kobe is not supposed to average 10 APG, if he did, he'd be the PG. Brevin Knight makes teammates better more than Kobe does, it's his role on the team. Diaw in ATL with the same minutes: 9.4 PPG | 5.1 RPG | 4.5 APG Considering he wasn't in as comfortable a situation, was not as good as he is now [players improve], and didn't have the same players around him, he did a pretty similar job. Rebounding and BPG increases are due to the difference between playing SG and playing SF/PF/C, assists because of better teammates and an increased playmaker role. He always had the vision [I know because I saw it, and it isn't something you just learn], and FG% increase, Nash, and the spreading of the floor. It's a lot easier to iso and beat PF/C's than is is to beat SG's, especially when your whole team can shoot three's and open up the court. Who said it's farfetched? I said it's stupid how people talk about that nonsense as opposed to just saying Nash is playing great and leading his team. There are many "cast away" players that end up doing good in another system or team, it's nothing special to Nash. The Suns also have a system that makes guys who have at least some offensive ability shine offensively. The Kings have a similar system too in that regard. Just look at Eddie House who people use as an example, on the Kings last year he scored less, but shot 45.8% FG and 45.2% 3PT in comparison to his 42.4% FG and 38.9% 3PT this season. Is he better because he's shooting more shots [#5 in the NBA in FGA/48 mins]
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Salim For 3:</div><div class="quote_post"> And to Brasco, it's just about the history. Nash winning last year was a fluke, but winning twice puts him, like many have mentioned, with players like Magic and Kareem, and now he has more MVPs than Shaq. That's just not right.</div> Sorry that's a really dumb argument because of history he can't win it? because shaq only won it once he should't get another one? how does that make sense?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think its nonsense at all. nash makes the people around him better...thats his game. you call that nonsense? why is it so far fetched that nash's play had something to do with their games being elevated? sure some of the other factors may come into play as well. fact is, diaw got starting minutes in atl and never even came close to the type of player he was this year. was it other factors? probably...was nash and his game a contributing factor? absolutely imo</div> Diaw played 25 minutes as a rookie, 18 as a sophomore. Those aren't "starter minutes". He was also drafted ahead of guys like Josh Howard and Zaza Pachulia (who are also having career years). He was expected to be a good player - this season isn't as out-of-the-blue as it's made out to be. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry that's a really dumb argument because of history he can't win it? because shaq only won it once he should't get another one? how does that make sense?</div> It doesn't really make sense, it just makes the actual situation worse. It doesn't take away from his MVP credentials, it just make the fact that he won it again harder to swallow.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's scoring isn't as valuable as what Nash creates and sacrafices on the basketball for his teammates. </div> That about sums it up right there. Kobe is a great scorer, congrats Kobe, you're getting the scoring title. Nash is valuable to his team because he puts his teammates in positions to succeed as well as being able to score when necessary. Kobe's team barely made the playoffs vs. Nash's team getting a top 3 record in the west, if either teeam didn't have their star they'd both probably be out of the playoffs but look at the difference at where there teams are. Kobe, Dirk, and LeBron definitely were worthy candidates but you can't just hate on Nash because he won 2 and deserved both as much as any other candidate.
