Seems to me that there are a lot of PG?s declared for the draft who might receive a first round grade. I was just thinking since PG is one of our needs it might be worth ranking them just based on who you would like to see the raptors add to there roster: 1. Marcus Williams (loved his tourny, great playmaker) 2. Kyle Lowry (Best upside in my oppinion) 3. Randy Foye (mos mock drafts have him #1 for pg's) 4. Dee Brown (This is high for him) 5. Rajon Rondo (love his D, and speed...he can't shoot tho) 6. Daniel Gibson (good upside, question his decision making) 7. Jordan Farmar (This is low for him, i just think he is overated) NA Quincy Doby NA Guillermo Diaz I was just checking NBAdraft.net and I noticed they have this Quincy Doby pg from Rutgers going in the first r.d but to be honest I have never seen any video or really heard his name before so I left him out of my rankings. And Diaz just cause he is a shooting guard.
My rankings: 1. Randy Foye- Chauncy Billups potential, this guy is a smoothe operater who can score 20 easy, lock down his man, and run a team. Hes big for a PG and hes got very good athleticism, good penetrator and shooter. His pure PG skills have been questioned but if you tell him to move the ball first and look for his own second he'll do it. 2- Kyle Lowry- Small and super quick, another very good athlete and hes got alot of heart. Hes a great penetrator and hes proven he can score over big men in the paint, at this point his jumpshot is pretty bad but hes very young and thats an area that can be improved relatively easily. Hes a grreat defender too with quick hands and feet, a ballhawk. I'd compare him to Tony Parker, probably a better defender in his prime. 3- Marcus Williams- A pure PG and floor general but his athleticism is below average. Hes a nice shooter and big for a PG but hes also very slow for a PG which will probably hinder his defensive and penetration ability. Theres some character issues with him though which may scare off some teams but other than that and athleticism hes a good prospect. 4- Darius Washington- Big, athletic, scoring PG. Good penetrator and average shooter. Slacks off on defense but he could be very good if he put his mind to it. Finishes well in traffic due to his good strength and overall athleticism. He seems like a poor man's Baron Davis, not quite the passer or finisher but still very good around the rim for a guy his size and an average shooter. 5- Rajon Rondo- Potential. Athletic PG with a gigantic wingspan and a very good perimiter defender. Hes a pass first PG but thats probably by default because he has very little scoring ability. Another guy who is very young so he could end up like Eric Snow or Brevin Knight or he could be totally different. Its safe to say he'll be a lock down defender at PG and a distributer but his scoring ability is a big question mark and could make him a steal or bust in the future. 6- Mardy Collins- A pure 6-6 PG. True floor general and PG. Hes a distributor and a decent scorer (likes to post up), heres another guy with a poor jumpshot but it can be improved. His defense is nice and although hes quick for his size he'll have trouble keeping up with small fast PGs in the NBA. He seems like a bigger Andre Miller to me. Runners up: Dee Brown: good scorer, should translate well to the NBA not a pure PG. Daniel Gibson: inconsistent describes him best, I tihnk he'll go back to school because his last season left scouts VERY dissapointed. Jordan Farmar: Pure PG, not a very good athlete but very fundamentally sound. Good shooter and distributor. Guillermo Diaz: Freak athlete, more of a SG or combo guard but another good scorer.
My Rankings 1. Jordan Farmar - Great at controlling the tempo and has a decent outside shot and doesnt make too many bad decisions or end up with too many turnovers when the game is over. Decent defender as well. 2. Darius Washington Jr. - This guy does everything, like Run BJM said he's like a Poor Man's Baron Davis. He could be better than B-Diddy IMO, he's a great player and will translate well into the pros. Sub-par defender , yet a good distributer, arguably has more potential than any PG in this years draft. 3. Marcus Williams - Great passer and everything you would want in a PG, like the two above, he's got both of there strong points and less weak points. At this moment he is probably the most NBA ready PG in this years draft but the question is how much more will this kid improve, he's great now but D-Wash and Farmar could turn out to be much better in the long run. 4. Randy Foye - Great scorer, did a lot for Villanova this year. Defense isnt bad and is around 6'3" if im not mistaken, so he's got decent size to be a PG. Kind of reminds me of a Chauncey Billups better at scoring, thats who I would compare him to. 5. Rajon Rondo - A skinny Eric Snow with more offensive game and massive hops. This guy is a great defender, IMO one of the best in the draft. Rondo will pan out he might take more time than the others but will be a solid NBA player, defense is much harder to work on than offense. Offense can be taught, Defense is all heart. Honorable Mentions: 6. Dee Brown - Lightning quick, the one man fast break. 7. Mardy Collins - A huge pg at 6'6, great vision and all around game, will cause matchup problems. 8. Kyle Lowry - A decent player with good potential, will need time to develop. 9. Daniel Gibson - More of a undersized two gaurd, and horribly inconsistent. 10/11. Mo Diaz/Quincy Douby - Both are compared to Bobby Jackson, good offensive players that are both quite athletic. Quincy is much smaller while Mo is a bigger more athletic player.
Buckets...mind if giving me an indepth explanation why you would choose farmar over foye? i see farmar as a late 1st round at most unless teams are desparate for PG
Farmar had a great tournement ala going to the finals and losing to Florida, he controls the tempo better than Foye. Foye is one of my favorite NCAA players and Im still saying this, from what I've seen of both of these guys Foye is a better scorer and tougher defender while Farmar is a old-school prototypical PG with a decent outside J.
Just so you guys now too, if Farmar isn't guaranteed a 1st round selection then he said that he'd return to UCLA for another year to ensure his status and to obviously get bigger bucks. Greedy kids today.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just so you guys now too, if Farmar isn't guaranteed a 1st round selection then he said that he'd return to UCLA for another year to ensure his status and to obviously get bigger bucks. Greedy kids today.</div> Well wouldnt you want to improve your game and get better so you could be a more successful pro? The bigger bucks are nice but I doubt thats the only reason he's going back. And from what I know its not confirmed yet so he could still stay in the draft and IMO after working out with teams his stock will skyrocket, hes an amazing player from what I've seen of him.
1) "Laptop" Williams (Connecticut) - Amazingly underrated point guard who has the potential to lead the league in assists in his first few years. Critics always point to his turnovers or his low scoring average and say he's out of control and limited offensively, but the truth of the matter is that anyone who handled the ball as much as he did last season at UConn would have a hard time not turning the ball over as many times as he did. His Assist to Turnover ratio is actually decent (2.3 A/TO). His low scoring average isn't a reflection of his inability to score, because he can if he needs to (ex: 26 points against Washington, 20 points against Kentucky). All his low scoring average really means is that he's unselfish and never looks to shoot first, which is a very valuable commodity in today's age of undersized two-guards running the point. My only real concern is Williams' off-the-court behavior, but with time he'll hopefully mature. 2) Jordan Farmar (UCLA) - I don't understand how he's not a consensus lottery pick. As a "pure" point guard, he's nearly flawless. Everything you want out of a point guard, he has: he's a great passer, has amazing court vision, can handle the ball just as well as anyone currently in the league, and he's comparable in terms of creativity to both Jason Kidd and Steve Nash in both a halfcourt or transition offense. 3) Randy Foye (Villanova) - He's probably more talented than both Williams and Farmar, but if you're looking for someone to run your offense, I wouldn't take him over either, because he's more of a true shooting guard. He's got all the tools to eventually learn the position, but to this point, he hasn't shown the ability to create for his teammates on offense like Williams and Farmar can. I just don't see him being an effective point guard in the league until a few years down the road. 4) Rajon Rondo (Kentucky) - Defensively, he's a gem, because his arms and hands are freakishly huge for someone his height, and that leads to a lot of steals and a lot of transition opportunities, an area in which Rondo excels. I'd have him over Foye, but I'm not confident that he's what most teams are looking for out of a point guard. He's a good passer, but he doesn't always involve his teammates well. Another concern I have is about his scoring ability on the next level. With his quick first step, he'll be able to cut to the basket with ease against a lot of the defenders, but his jumper is very inconsistent, to the point where he's almost a liability on the perimeter. 5) Mardy Collins (Temple) - Like Randy Foye, I don't really see him as a point guard on the next level. He's probably going to be able to make the transition better, but he'd be more effective as a two-guard. That versatility is one of the reasons I ranked him this high though. He does a little bit of everything on both sides of the floor and can do it all from three different positions. Best of the Rest: Sergio Rodriguez (Spain), Kyle Lowry (Villanova), Daniel Horton (Michigan), Darius Washington, Jr. (Memphis), Dee Brown (Illinois), Jose Juan Barea (Northeastern), Quincy Douby (Rutgers), Will Blalock (Iowa State), Bobby Brown (Cal. St. Fullerton), Gerry McNamara (Syracuse), Terrell Everett (Oklahoma), Sean Dockery (Duke), Yotam Halperin (Israel), Mustafa Shakur (Arizona), Daniel Gibson (Texas), Jeff Horner (Iowa), Chris Hernandez (Stanford), Guillermo Diaz (Miami), C.J. Watson (Tennessee), Chris Quinn (Notre Dame)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">1) "Laptop" Williams (Connecticut) - Amazingly underrated point guard who has the potential to lead the league in assists in his first few years. Critics always point to his turnovers or his low scoring average and say he's out of control and limited offensively, but the truth of the matter is that anyone who handled the ball as much as he did last season at UConn would have a hard time not turning the ball over as many times as he did. His Assist to Turnover ratio is actually decent (2.3 A/TO). His low scoring average isn't a reflection of his inability to score, because he can if he needs to (ex: 26 points against Washington, 20 points against Kentucky). All his low scoring average really means is that he's unselfish and never looks to shoot first, which is a very valuable commodity in today's age of undersized two-guards running the point. My only real concern is Williams' off-the-court behavior, but with time he'll hopefully mature. 2) Jordan Farmar (UCLA) - I don't understand how he's not a consensus lottery pick. As a "pure" point guard, he's nearly flawless. Everything you want out of a point guard, he has: he's a great passer, has amazing court vision, can handle the ball just as well as anyone currently in the league, and he's comparable in terms of creativity to both Jason Kidd and Steve Nash in both a halfcourt or transition offense. 3) Randy Foye (Villanova) - He's probably more talented than both Williams and Farmar, but if you're looking for someone to run your offense, I wouldn't take him over either, because he's more of a true shooting guard. He's got all the tools to eventually learn the position, but to this point, he hasn't shown the ability to create for his teammates on offense like Williams and Farmar can. I just don't see him being an effective point guard in the league until a few years down the road. 4) Rajon Rondo (Kentucky) - Defensively, he's a gem, because his arms and hands are freakishly huge for someone his height, and that leads to a lot of steals and a lot of transition opportunities, an area in which Rondo excels. I'd have him over Foye, but I'm not confident that he's not exactly what most teams are looking for out of a point guard. He's a good passer, but he doesn't always involve his teammates well. Another concern I have is about his scoring ability on the next level. With his quick first step, he'll be able to cut to the basket with ease against a lot of the defenders on the next level, but his jumper is very inconsistent to the point where he's almost a liability on the perimeter. 5) Mardy Collins (Temple) - Like Randy Foye, I don't really see him as a point guard on the next level. He's probably going to be able to make the transition better, but he'd be more effective as a two-guard. That versatility is one of the reasons I ranked him this high though. He does a little bit of everything on both sides of the floor and can do it all from three different positions. Best of the Rest: Sergio Rodriguez (Spain), Kyle Lowry (Villanova), Daniel Horton (Michigan), Darius Washington, Jr. (Memphis), Dee Brown (Illinois), Jose Juan Barea (Northeastern), Quincy Douby (Rutgers), Will Blalock (Iowa State), Bobby Brown (Cal. St. Fullerton), Gerry McNamara (Syracuse), Terrell Everett (Oklahoma), Sean Dockery (Duke), Yotam Halperin (Israel), Mustafa Shakur (Arizona), Daniel Gibson (Texas), Jeff Horner (Iowa), Chris Hernandez (Stanford), Guillermo Diaz (Miami), C.J. Watson (Tennessee), Chris Quinn (Notre Dame)</div> Listen to him ^
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> Best of the Rest: Sergio Rodriguez (Spain), Kyle Lowry (Villanova), Daniel Horton (Michigan), Darius Washington, Jr. (Memphis), Dee Brown (Illinois), Jose Juan Barea (Northeastern), Quincy Douby (Rutgers), Will Blalock (Iowa State), Bobby Brown (Cal. St. Fullerton), Gerry McNamara (Syracuse), Terrell Everett (Oklahoma), Sean Dockery (Duke), Yotam Halperin (Israel), Mustafa Shakur (Arizona), Daniel Gibson (Texas), Jeff Horner (Iowa), Chris Hernandez (Stanford), Guillermo Diaz (Miami), C.J. Watson (Tennessee), Chris Quinn (Notre Dame)</div> These two should crack your list as far as potential is concerned.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">These two should crack your list as far as potential is concerned.</div> I don't think that either one is effective enough at running the point to be considered top five prospects on the next level at that position. Washington, Jr. is a hell of a scorer when he's healthy, but he's been troubled by an inner-thigh bruise which has limited his explosiveness and quickness, the whole basis for him getting so many clean shots off his freshman season. With that injury effecting him, we got to see a lot of the holes in his game this year, specifically his poor decision making. Brown's decision making is better, but he's still a combo guard who'll be way too small on the next level to play anywhere but point guard. Also, as is a concern with any player who is the offensive focal point on a team full of less talented players, it's unseen how he'll be able to play when he's got a whole team full of players of his caliber or better; will he still be taking so many ill-advised shots?
Eh, i'm still not sold on Washington yet. Yes, he showed at Memphis that he can fill it up at times, but he can also get out of control and take un-necessary shots. However, I absolutely love his passion for the game, like back in the Conference-USA championship where he missed the game-winning free throws and dropped like a rock to the floor. But if you put him in the right situation where he can be a backup in his first few years and learn from a vetern point guard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">VC, are their any PG's that would be available in the second round that are close to Farmar?</div> That really all depends on what a few teams picking ahead of you do. The teams I'd be particularly concerned with are Memphis, Cleveland, and Atlanta, who all need help at the point. Rajon Rondo, Sergio Rodriguez, and Kyle Lowry are all likely to go in the first round, but if those teams mentioned above falls in love with a big man, a Euro, or a combo guard like Quincy Douby, Dee Brown, or Daniel Gibson that they think can convert to being a full-time point guard in the NBA, then you might wid up stealing one of those players with your second round pick. That's not saying you shouldn't take a player like Washington, Horton, or McNamara if they're still on the board. I just don't think that any of them are 'close to Farmar.'
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">VC, are their any PG's that would be available in the second round that are close to Farmar?</div> I'm not Voodoo- but I can tell you that there is no other Farmar. Marcus Williams is the only point guard i'd take over Farmar, but that's because he's the more complete guard as far as shooting and passing goes. But Farmar's court vision is amazing to say the least; he definitely makes his teammates much, much better, and his leadership at point guard was the main reason UCLA went to the championship game. With the Raptors drafting in the top 10, taking Farmar would be a major reach, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Farmar be a lottery pick after scouts see how good this kid really is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not Voodoo- but I can tell you that there is no other Farmar. Marcus Williams is the only point guard i'd take over Farmar, but that's because he's the more complete guard as far as shooting and passing goes. But Farmar's court vision is amazing to say the least; he definitely makes his teammates much, much better, and his leadership at point guard was the main reason UCLA went to the championship game. With the Raptors drafting in the top 10, taking Farmar would be a major reach, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Farmar be a lottery pick after scouts see how good this kid really is.</div> You're right that there is no other Farmar, but guys like Rondo could wind up being just as big of contributers on the next level, just in a different way. The players I listed in my post right before this aren't as 'pure' as Farmar is as a point guard, but they all have certain skills that could make them just as valuable, regardless of their ability to run an offense on the next level.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right that there is no other Farmar, but guys like Rondo could wind up being just as big of contributers on the next level, just in a different way. The players I listed in my post right before this aren't as 'pure' as Farmar is as a point guard, but they all have certain skills that could make them just as valuable, regardless of their ability to run an offense on the next level.</div> I still think Rondo can be a heckuva point guard at the next level if he can just develop an above average jumpshot. His defense is the strongest point of his game, mostly due to his long wing-span; has great handling skills along with quickness; and passes the ball well...especially when he gets into the lane. But if your team runs a slower paced offense, then Rajon is not for you; he is amazing when he is loose on the fast break. I can't really find anything wrong with him except having a poor shot...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">I still think Rondo can be a heckuva point guard at the next level if he can just develop an above average jumpshot. His defense is the strongest point of his game, mostly due to his long wing-span; has great handling skills along with quickness; and passes the ball well...especially when he gets into the lane. But if your team runs a slower paced offense, then Rajon is not for you; he is amazing when he is loose on the fast break. I can't really find anything wrong with him except having a poor shot...</div> Well, that inability to run a slow paced offense is definitely something wrong with him. He's not really that great at creating opportunities for his teammates. He's a good passer and unselfish, but he lacks the vision to set them up for the score. That's something that can definitely be improved upon though, as is his jumper. As a raw, physical specimen, Rondo's very intriguing. He's got all the physical tools to be a great point guard: long length, huge hands, great quickness, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">1) 2) Jordan Farmar (UCLA) - I don't understand how he's not a consensus lottery pick. As a "pure" point guard, he's nearly flawless. Everything you want out of a point guard, he has: he's a great passer, has amazing court vision, can handle the ball just as well as anyone currently in the league, and he's comparable in terms of creativity to both Jason Kidd and Steve Nash in both a halfcourt or transition offense. </div> I was just gonna say that I feel Farmar is helped a lot playing under coach Howland at UCLA. Ben Howland has a great track record with getting PG's to play "smart or flawless" basketball he really get the most out of his gaurds. I especially think of Brandin Knight in Pittsburgh as an example of a player who maximized his ability under Howland. I just worry that Farmar might not be able to translate his success to an NBA level. I just wonder if HOWLAND will become college basketball's version of Jeff tedford's college studs to NFL duds at QB'S. Anyway Im not sold on Farmar thats all, at least not as a lottery pick - too small and too streaky a shooter, also i see him being a liability defending.
