<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NEW YORK -- There's a good chance Ben Wallace of the Detroit Pistons and San Antonio Spurs guard Bruce Bowen will be facing off for the NBA championship next month. On Thursday, they were named teammates. Wallace, a four-time and reigning defensive player of the year, and Bowen highlight the 2005-06 NBA All-Defensive Team. Making his fifth consecutive appearance on the all-defensive first team, Wallace is joined by leading vote-getter Bowen, who was named to the all-defensive team for the sixth consecutive season. Also selected to the first team were forwards Andrei Kirilenko of the Utah Jazz; 2003-04 defensive player of the year Ron Artest of the Sacramento Kings; and guards Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers and Jason Kidd of the New Jersey Nets, receiving their sixth and seventh all-defensive honors, respectively.</div> Source
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SP23:</div><div class="quote_post">How is there 6 on the first team? Isn't there only sopposed to be 5?</div> Kidd & Kobe where tied in votes.
My choice would be: 1st Team: C - Ben Wallace PF - Tim Duncan SF - Shane Battier SG - Bruce Bowen PG - Jason Kidd 2nd Team: C - Marcus Camby PF - Rasheed Wallace SF - Andrei Kirilenko SG - Raja Bell PG - Earl Watson
Where the hell is gerald wallace? he averaged 2 steals and 2 blocks a game only person in the league to do that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Where the hell is gerald wallace? he averaged 2 steals and 2 blocks a game only person in the league to do that.</div> And where's Shane Battier? I thought he was a legit DPOY candidate. Or Raja Bell, who lead the league in charges drawn (by a huge margin). You can't tell me those two, who are defensive specialists, don't do more on the defensive end for their team than Kobe Bryant. And Billups is overrated on defense -- when you got the Wallaces and Prince behind you, it's hard to look bad on defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Durvasa, based on statistical impact who should have been selected to the 1st and 2nd teams?</div> It's hard to say, since it's difficult to accurately measure defensive impact using stats. Kevin Pelton (your favorite!) wrote an article on his selections using a variety of statistical measures (raw plus/minus, opponent PER, etc.). http://www.82games.com/pelton17.htm Stats that one could look at are: <ul> [*]Defensive Rating: combines individual "box score" stats and team defensive rating [*]Opponent PER - statistical productivity per possession of the player they're matched up against (you can find it at 82games) [*]Charges drawn - not officially counted, but 82games has a list of top players in this category for the season [*]Defensive +/- per 100poss - personally, I think this is very informative, though it's also flawed since it doesn't adjust for teammates and opponents faced (you can find it at 82games) [*]Adjusted +/- Ratings - Unfortunately, very difficult to calculate and not readily available. Though, it is probably the best measure. [/list]
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">It's hard to say, since it's hard to measure defensive impact using stats. Kevin Pelton (you're favorite!) wrote an article on his selections using a variety of statistical measures (raw plus/minus, opponent PER, etc.). http://www.82games.com/pelton17.htm</div> Yeah I read his piece earlier today. I remember Dan Rosenbaum did a defensive ranking a season ago, but it had Raja Bell ranked near the bottom. He wrote about his findings in his [http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/defense-on-perimeter-what-do-adjusted.html]BLOG[/url] Raja ranked bottom 8 for shooting guards. I think the first criteria should be ommitting players who don't guard the opposing teams best scoring option. Raja Bell has the responsibility of matching up with the elite scoring guards every game. Obviously he's going to give up more points than someone who doesn't have the same match up assignments. Maybe a weighted average could be used to determine which player is the best defender based on how they fair against their offensive matchup. The +/- difference between what the player averages on the season vs. what the player averages against the given defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah I read his piece earlier today. I remember Dan Rosenbaum did a defensive ranking a season ago, but it had Raja Bell ranked near the bottom. He wrote about his findings in his [http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/defense-on-perimeter-what-do-adjusted.html]BLOG[/url] Raja ranked bottom 8 for shooting guards. </div> Yeah, check the adjusted +/- link above. Raja was rated very low while he was with Utah. His rating takes a weighted average of the previous 3 years, I believe, hence Bell's low rating. I'd bet his defensive rating would be much higher for this year, however. Here's the unadjusted +/- numbers per 100 possessions (except for 2003): <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Team+/-<br/>2006PHO-2.6<br/>2005UTA+3.3<br/>2004UTA+0.7<br/>2003*DAL+1.5<br/><br/>* per 48 minutes<br/></div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the first criteria should be ommitting players who don't guard the opposing teams best scoring option. Raja Bell has the responsibility of matching up with the elite scoring guards every game. Obviously he's going to give up more points than someone who doesn't have the same match up assignments.</div> I don't quite agree with that approach. I think the honors should go to players who have the biggets impact on defense at their position, regardless of who they're individually assigned to guard. You can be a great defensive player because you get a ton of steals, blocks, draw charges, and grab defensive rebounds -- all while not being specifically assigned to the opposing team's best player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe a weighted average could be used to determine which player is the best defender based on how they fair against their offensive matchup. The +/- difference between what the player averages on the season vs. what the player averages against the given defender.</div> Yeah, I think that would definitely be useful. But I still think focusing on that would miss the bigger picture. Being a great team defender is just as important as individual one-on-one defense. That needs to be incorporated somehow. Maybe some combination of and adjusted Opponent PER (without taking into account defensive stats) which looks at opponents production relative to what they normally do, and a team defensive rating which incorporates steals, blocks, charges, defensive rebounds and also +/- would work well. But figuring out that first part would be way too difficult.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can be a great defensive player because you get a ton of steals, blocks, draw charges, and grab defensive rebounds -- all while not being specifically assigned to the opposing team's best player. </div> Good point, but I would argue players who contribute in those areas generally do guard the opposing team's best player. One flaw however, is if you have to great defenders on the same team. For example, the Wallaces, both are valuable on the defensive end. I agree, overall team defense should also be incorporated in the statistics somehow.
Wow I find it almost hilarious that Kobe made first team all defensive. This year was the year of scoring for Kobe. Yes he can play very good defense and at time during the season he made some amazing defensive plays. However this year I would rank as one of his worst defensive years. He got a reputation as a hard working and skilled defender while he had Shaq on his team who helped to shoulder the load offensively which allowed him to focus more on the defensive end. I think that Kobe won this through the reputation that he built up during those years and also because he deserved to win some kind of award for this season even if it has nothing to do with his actual accomplishments that he did achieve this year. Seriously I still can't believe that 20 voters for the MVP didn't vote for Kobe at all. So instead he gets a bogus award. Kobe shouldn't even accept it and instead train extra hard this summer getting better on defense so that next year he can actually earn it and maybe even get another vote from Bill Walton for the defensive player of the year next year.
Kobe making 1st team All-Defense is almost as laughable as Wade getting 2nd team defense honors. They both good defenders, but not elite defenders.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe making 1st team All-Defense is almost as laughable as Wade getting 2nd team defense honors. They both good defenders, but not elite defenders.</div>i wouldn't say Kobe making it first team is laughable, but i agree he doesn't deserve the 1st team. Probably second team, but i also disagree about Kobe not being an elite defender, when he wants to, he'll shut his man down while dropping 40 that night (which he did on a consistant basis).
Yea Kobe is an elite defender just not this year is my point. Wade also is a good defender but I wouldn't say that he is an elite defender but then again I haven't seen him play much mostly just aganist the Lakers and when my friend who is a Heat fan invites me over for some beer and pizza for a game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">i wouldn't say Kobe making it first team is laughable, but i agree he doesn't deserve the 1st team. Probably second team, but i also disagree about Kobe not being an elite defender, when he wants to, he'll shut his man down while dropping 40 that night (which he did on a consistant basis).</div> That's the problem. "When he wants to." Elite defenders have to defend at a high level all the time, not just in isolated stretches. Kobe obviously has a lot of other responsibilities, so it's not that big a deal, but the really elite perimeter defenders are almost always specialists. Ron Artest is probably the only notable exception this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">And where's Shawn Battier? I thought he was a legit DPOY candidate. Or Raja Bell, who lead the league in charges drawn (by a huge margin). </div> leading the league in charge is quite an accomplishment but most of them are flops. The coaches vote for the All Defensive Team and most coaches hate seeing flop, they "think" it's a disgrace to the game lol. Nonetheless I think Bell and Battier should be in the 2nd team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe making 1st team All-Defense is almost as laughable as Wade getting 2nd team defense honors. They both good defenders, but not elite defenders.</div> Kobe proves he can be a great defensive player when he wants to. Honestly I was a bit surprised when I saw Kobe got into the 1st defensive team. Though, I think the coach votes him in because they see how hard he works on the defensive end while still carrying the team offensive load. Not to mention, there were a couple games where Kobe slowing down an elite player (ie Vince, Lebron, Wade, Melo, etc...) Also Wade isn't in the 2nd team! All 6 players on the first team actually deserving it; all of them can lock down their opponent whenever they want to. I think that is the most important "criteria" the coaches look for this year.
Id like to know where Gerald Wallace fits in with all this. Only three players have ever had a year like his. And he is one of them. Do the names Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson sound familiar? Well theyre the only other two players who averaged 2 Blocks and 2 Steals a game. The man averaged 2.51 Steals and 2.09 Blocks per game. Now thats quite a feat. The other two men to have completed this were 7 footers. He stands just 6ft 9. To be left off the first side is a big snub considering the year he has had. Even being left off the second side is a bit weird. Kobes year was scoring but his defense has improved but i dont see his year a defensive first team year. Oh well nothing can be done about it but Gerald Wallace will be back better then ever next year because next year is his year!
