<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Enuff with the 50pts 20reb crap. That's physically IMPOSSIBLE to do that in this day in age. That's why I don't understand why you bring up averages from 40-50 yrs ago. Put things in perspective, THIS IS NOT THE 60's. Nobody can average 50pts in this day in age, LET IT GO. However, if you happen to be 7'1 playing against centers NOWHERE near ur size, height, and strength then it could be possible. Shaq in his prime was the most dominant ever. If your gonna avg 50pt and 20rebs it better be in the 60's, because like i said, it ain't gon happen it todays game. If he was playin right now, post civil rights era, hiphop generation, his numbers would be alot more down to earth. Wilt also might not be the greatest of his era, you also have Russell & Kareem (Lou Al Cinder back then). So that argument works both ways Freshprince.</div> i know who LEW ALCINDOR is. spell his name right if your going to condescend. and none of those older guys averaged anywere near 50 ppg and 20 rpg. so where is your argument. if they were almost as dominant as wlt then why are there numbers very similar and somewhat worse than modern day players. KAJ has the most points of all time and had the most unstoppable move ever (the sky hook). yet he never scored anywhere near 50 ppg. as someone said ealier, shaq would have been destroyed in the 60's and 70's. he is way to slow. i would take hakeem over shaq anyday of the week by the way. also maybe david robinson. he was an amazing scorer and defender. shaq just isnt that great.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">i know who LEW ALCINDOR is. spell his name right if your going to condescend. and none of those older guys averaged anywere near 50 ppg and 20 rpg. so where is your argument. if they were almost as dominant as wlt then why are there numbers very similar and somewhat worse than modern day players. KAJ has the most points of all time and had the most unstoppable move ever (the sky hook). yet he never scored anywhere near 50 ppg. as someone said ealier, shaq would have been destroyed in the 60's and 70's. he is way to slow. i would take hakeem over shaq anyday of the week by the way. also maybe david robinson. he was an amazing scorer and defender. shaq just isnt that great.</div> David Robinson over Shaq? the little credibility u had is slowly dwindling away after sayin that .......we're talkin about players in their primes. Shaq in his prime wasn't close to being slow. He was a better athlete than Wilt was. I don't know where you've been. I like the way you totally ignore the fact Wilt didn't avg 50 anybody his size. If ur 7'1 and playin against shorter, slower, & less athletic bigmen you should average 50. Shaq dominated every center in this era. David Robinson, Mourning, Yao, Hakeem (tail end of his career), Ewing. These are all potentially hall of famers here! The best center Wilt matched up with is probably Kareem, and you can argue that he almost always outplayed Wilt. He even dunked on him a few times If that's not enuff proof, check Shaq's fingers. The man has 4 rings, 2 different teams. nuff said. U lose
rings mean nothing. bill russell isnt the greatest ever. michael doleac isnt better than karl malone. rings dont determine a great player. i didnt say david was better. i said i would ALMOST take him over shaq. and you didnt even touch the 50ppg and 20rpg thing. and if KAJ dominated wilt then why didnt he average these outrageous numbers. and shaq did not dominate these guys. big ben wallace shut him down. is he great? and if im not mistaken, shaq lost to hakeem in the finals. wierd huh? i do not see how i lost ANY credibilty, or how i lost?
You have to use rings to determine this? Shaq played no where near Wilts minutes. Wilt played an average of 45.8 minutes per game over his 14 year career. He even averaged over 48 minutes per game in one season. Wilt also did not commit stupid fouls, he was a much greater defender than Shaq, as a matter of fact, Wilt never fouled out in his career, not once. If Shaq played in Wilts era, at his size, he would not be able to keep up with the speed of the game. Wilt would run him to the ground and just dominate as usual when Shaqs out of the game, and Wilt would never leave the game. If Wilt played in todays NBA, he would be just an alien of basketball. He would be unstoppable with the supplements, and training techniques, and facilitys of today. Even the shoes, yes the shoes make a difference to, WIlt would have even greater athleticism.
^^Word, but werent you arguing for shaq before? anyway though nice stat about the never fouling out. i forgot about that. and yes, wilt would be even more amazing. have any of you ever tried to ball in chuck taylors? it osnt very fun.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">He even dunked on him a few times</div> Did you forget about Alcindor getting dunked on and having his shots erased by Wilt?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you forget about Alcindor getting dunked on and having his shots erased by Wilt?</div>Ether.. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq in his prime wasn't close to being slow. He was a better athlete than Wilt was. I don't know where you've been. I like the way you totally ignore the fact Wilt didn't avg 50 anybody his size. If ur 7'1 and playin against shorter, slower, & less athletic bigmen you should average 50.</div>Woah fam, that's blasphemy. There is no way in hell Shaq was more athletic than Wilt. Stronger? yes, but he wasn't even close to Wilt as far a athleticism goes..
Wow, I was actually impressed with the article, normally a lot of people who write these articles comparing guys say stupidness. This one had quotes, they also emphasized that while numbers wise Wilt had the 50 points and 24 rebounds, in his time teams took like 20 more shots and made 5-8% less of their shots, so he's not actually twice as good a rebounder as Shaq, and he also played like 46-48 MPG. Anyways, Wilt was the more skilled player. I'd say basketball wise, Shaq is stronger. What I didn't like about Wilt is that he was a stat padder early on, but if I had to take one, I'd take Wilt because he has better motivation than Shaq, and is overall a more skilled guy. Also about athleticism, Wilt was more athletic than Shaq, he was faster, could jump higher, but in terms of moves though, Shaq was a lot quicker, Wilt was very mechanical in the post, like Antonio Davis is, except Wilt could actually score.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">rings mean nothing. bill russell isnt the greatest ever. michael doleac isnt better than karl malone. rings dont determine a great player. i didnt say david was better. i said i would ALMOST take him over shaq. and you didnt even touch the 50ppg and 20rpg thing. and if KAJ dominated wilt then why didnt he average these outrageous numbers. and shaq did not dominate these guys. big ben wallace shut him down. is he great? and if im not mistaken, shaq lost to hakeem in the finals. wierd huh? i do not see how i lost ANY credibilty, or how i lost?</div> Rings mean nothin? That's ridiculous. Maybe not the sole basis of the argument, but you HAVE to factor in rings. Shaq happens to have 4 I ignore 50 and 20 because it was in a era where the league wasn't very athletic. Wilt was the only giant. How is that not a factor? However, in todays game there are plenty giants. First you said you almost take David Robinson over Shaq, now ur sayin Ben Wallace "shut him down" which is a very sick exaggeration. What u mean to say is "Ben had a couple good games against Shaq". Plus, Shaq would literally DEMOLISH Ben in his younger days. He's made the finals with three different teams, won 4 rings with 2 of the 3 teams along with a gold medal. The only time he was outplayed was his rookie year, against my fav. player Hakeem. But he destroyed Hakeem every year after that. He's the most dominant, he's unselfish, he's a proven winner and a 4time champion (with 2 different teams). Proof is in the puddin, check the facts
^^you cant ignore the 50 and 20 because nobody else was getting those numbers, like russell and kareem. two other greatest centers ever. As i think durvasa said earlier, wilt played against tougher competition more often. and the fact that wilt played 46-48 minutes in a faster paced game is amazing. no center could ever do that. and wilt has a few rings of his own, just look at his page, and try and tell me that shaq has more accomplishments, not mention not even close physically or talet wise. this discussion is a joke. your argument is that shaq dominates over vlade (a flopper) and sabonis (weak!). While wilt has the record for most rebounds in a finals against bill russell, the greatest rebounder ever, next to wilt. shaq is a good defender, adequate rebounder, horrible shooter, and poor passer. wilt is amazing at EVERYTHING. http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/Chamberlain.htm
You definately can't ignore the numbers, but you also have to put them in perspective. Like people shouldn't think Wilt was twice the scorer and twice the rebounder Shaq was because of the stats. Wilt was a better rebounder, in this era, he's putting up KG rebound numbers, so about 15 RPG, and because of higher minutes, like 17 RPG. Not Rodman rebounding numbers though. Scoring wise, in this era, his early years would have him as a 30+ PPG guy, though he would never be a 50 PPG scorer just because of less shots being taken by the teams. Remember even though people said 3rd year Shaq got "owned" by Olajuwon, he still averaged 28.0 PPG | 12.5 RPG | 6.3 APG against him, if that's how you play when you get owned, then I'd like to always get owned. Also you have to realize that players can adjust. If Shaq was born in that time, his game would still be based on strength, but stamina is really not a hard thing to adjust to, he would be able to build his stamina, and would still be an effective player. Also a lot of people attest that back in the day being a C was a very straight up and down the court thing. There was little lateral movement, you were just going up and down the middle area of the court all game. Lastly, Wilt is not amazing at everything. Wilt was as poor a shooter as Shaq. Yes he had his stupid fadeaway that was nothing more than an ego thing, but he also couldn't shoot FT's. He even tried underhand for a while, and career wise, I'm pretty sure Shaq actually shoots better from the line by a bit, and in terms of career highs beats him too.
OK wilt sucks at FT's i'll give you that. he was a better shooter though imo. and i know that the numbers need to be put in prespective, so lets compare them to everyone else in that time. none of them scored as much as this years nba, so why couldnt he get like 45-50 per game. wilt even said in an interview that he could have aeraged 60 if he really wanted to. i know he is completely inlove with himself and stats, but i believe him. his 50 24 season would be like a 45 17-19 season nowadays. that is simply amazing. and because shaq won 4 title with two different teams doesnt make him amazing. John salley did that i believe. and he left those teams because he loves money and himself, ot because he made those teams what they were. he has always been on good teams with amazing swingmen help. wilt never really had that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">OK wilt sucks at FT's i'll give you that. he was a better shooter though imo. and i know that the numbers need to be put in prespective, so lets compare them to everyone else in that time. none of them scored as much as this years nba, so why couldnt he get like 45-50 per game. wilt even said in an interview that he could have aeraged 60 if he really wanted to. i know he is completely inlove with himself and stats, but i believe him. his 50 24 season would be like a 45 17-19 season nowadays. that is simply amazing.</div> LOL U think Wilt could average 45-17-19 in this era? That's the craziest thing I've heard in justbball ever. I could see if the guy had a sick go to move allah Kareem, but he wasn't too much different than today's average center. He was just bigger and stronger than anybody guarding him. A giant amongst midgets. Realistically, he'd prolly be a 25 & 10 guy today. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshprince:</div><div class="quote_post">and because shaq won 4 title with two different teams doesnt make him amazing. John salley did that i believe. and he left those teams because he loves money and himself, ot because he made those teams what they were. he has always been on good teams with amazing swingmen help. wilt never really had that.</div> Ur problem with Shaq seems to be personal. How can you compare Shaq to John Salley Shaq is not only the games most dominant bigman, but the one of the best winners in the history of the game. Wilt was successful against players smaller than him, but he'd have problems with somebody who's stronger and bigger. You keep sayin the game was faster, but you couldn't be more wrong. Players of today are the fastest, quickest, strongest the game has ever seen.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">LOL U think Wilt could average 45-17-19 in this era? That's the craziest thing I've heard in justbball ever. I could see if the guy had a sick go to move allah Kareem, but he wasn't too much different than today's average center. He was just bigger and stronger than anybody guarding him. A giant amongst midgets. Realistically, he'd prolly be a 25 & 10 guy today. Ur problem with Shaq seems to be personal. How can you compare Shaq to John Salley Shaq is not only the games most dominant bigman, but the one of the best winners in the history of the game. Wilt was successful against players smaller than him, but he'd have problems with somebody who's stronger and bigger. You keep sayin the game was faster, but you couldn't be more wrong. Players of today are the fastest, quickest, strongest the game has ever seen.</div> i meant 45 points 17-19 rebounds. and shaq is extremely good, but he is also way bigger than the competition. No has commented on how the fact that no one during wilts era has better numbers than people in todays game, so why do we discredit his 50 ppg season and 20 some odd rpg. he didnt do it for multiple years, he had one amazing season followed by many great ones. and the john salley thing was meant to show that winning 4 championships for 2 different teams doesnt make you a great player.
The other guys didn't average 50 PPG because they weren't trying to collect stats, and were looking to win games. It's known that Wilt was a stat collector, like you said, let's not fool ourselves. The difference now is that teams will make him give up the ball, he'll still be able to score, but as much as he tries, he can't shoot every single posession, he's a big man, you need the guards to give you the ball. So when teams as a whole are shooting 20 less shots, he just can't get up enough shots to score 45 PPG. You no that MANY MANY people feel the low scoring Wilt was superior to the 50 PPG Wilt, so it really shows how much effect his numbers were having. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and because shaq won 4 title with two different teams doesnt make him amazing. John salley did that i believe. and he left those teams because he loves money and himself, ot because he made those teams what they were. he has always been on good teams with amazing swingmen help. wilt never really had that.</div> Why are you talking about John Salley? When did I mention Shaq winning with different teams? I never thought it mattered how many different teams you won with, so I don't know why you're giving me this argument. Wilt won two championships on two teams also, so? In terms of Wilt's help, well let's see: First 3 seasons he had Paul Arizin - HOF (at that time only one other good player wasn't enough, though Arizin was a HOF guy) The 3 seasons after that he had nothing, but he didn't win much anyways In Philadelphia - Hal Greer, Bill Cunningham, Chet Walker, won Championship with Wilt down to 24 PPG. If Wilt's scoring truly elevated team play that much, why was it that he was most succesful when he was NOT scoring so much. His third year in Philly they won a champiomnship, his 4th year they won 62 games with him only up 0.2 PPG (24.3 to 24.1) to Hal Greer in the PPG list. The only reason he was above them was because he never left the court. PER minute, there were 4 guys on the team scoring more than him. He actually was only the PER minute scoring leader in Philly 1 1/2 seasons, his second, and the half a season of his first. Wilt leading the team in PER minute scoring - 40-40 (came in halfway) | 55-25 Wilt not leading - 68-13 | 62-20 Lastly LA: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Happy Hairtson Jerry West, Happy Hairston, Gail Goodrich So he had definately had good teams, many good teams to be exact, even better than what Shaq has had, Shaq has never had a truly deep team, but again back then, there were fewer teams, so the talent was more concentrated. It would be like Shaq playing on a team with Dwyane Wade, Vince Carter, and Jermaine O'neal. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ur problem with Shaq seems to be personal. How can you compare Shaq to John Salley Shaq is not only the games most dominant bigman, but the one of the best winners in the history of the game. Wilt was successful against players smaller than him, but he'd have problems with somebody who's stronger and bigger. You keep sayin the game was faster, but you couldn't be more wrong. Players of today are the fastest, quickest, strongest the game has ever seen.</div> What is Shaq doing then, playing against guys who are bigger than him? Wilt wouldn't struggle against bigger guys just like young Shaq was able to beat on whatever defender you put on him, these guys are skilled, not just big. Also what he means by fast is the pace of the game, not the athleticism of players, but that doesn't matter anyways since Wilt was way ahead of his time in terms of the combination of athleticism and strength, he would still be a Top athlete in the NBA right now, easily in the Top 5 in overall athletic ability.
^^good post the championship thing wasnt at you, someone else has said it lke 3 times, and like you and i said, wilt has two so it doesnt really matter. Wilt wins hands down imo. i know there where a lot fewer possessions back when wilt played, but i still feel that if he wanted to, he could have just as good numbers in todays game because think how many buckets he would get on fast breaks. todays centers are much slower and have less endurance so when wilt played he wasnt all THAT fast. today he would beat many pf's and some sf's (wally) up the court. and just the fact that he wanted to pad his stats, and could is just amazing. how many guys can say, i think i'll average 50 ppg this year? not many at all even have the ability to score 40 on back to back nights, much less average 50.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">^^good post the championship thing wasnt at you, someone else has said it lke 3 times, and like you and i said, wilt has two so it doesnt really matter. Wilt wins hands down imo. i know there where a lot fewer possessions back when wilt played, but i still feel that if he wanted to, he could have just as good numbers in todays game because think how many buckets he would get on fast breaks. todays centers are much slower and have less endurance so when wilt played he wasnt all THAT fast. today he would beat many pf's and some sf's (wally) up the court.</div> Today's Centers & PF'S Ben Wallace Chris Bosh Dirk KG Duncan Gasol Okafur Dwight Howard Stoudamire Today's SF'S Lebron James Carmello Tmac Vince Carter Jamison What fantasy world are you living in Who on this list of today's players would Super Wilt beat up the court? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">What is Shaq doing then, playing against guys who are bigger than him? Wilt wouldn't struggle against bigger guys just like young Shaq was able to beat on whatever defender you put on him, these guys are skilled, not just big. Also what he means by fast is the pace of the game, not the athleticism of players, but that doesn't matter anyways since Wilt was way ahead of his time in terms of the combination of athleticism and strength, he would still be a Top athlete in the NBA right now, easily in the Top 5 in overall athletic ability.</div> Not arguing that. He'd be close to a 25-12 guy today. But the days of averaging 50pts a game are DEAD. The game has changed and so have the physique of the players. However, the players back then were very skilled but not nearly as skilled as todays players. They played more fundamentally sound, but weren't quite as quick, strong, or fast.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Today's Centers & PF'S Ben Wallace Chris Bosh Dirk KG Duncan Gasol Okafur Dwight Howard Stoudamire Today's SF'S Lebron James Carmello Tmac Vince Carter Jamison What fantasy world are you living in Who on this list of today's players would Super Wilt beat up the court? </div> i said some pf's and sf's. my sf example was wally, u listed the 5 most athletic besides jamison, who is prolly the same speed as wilt. gasol and dirk arent that fast, and ost of those guys are pf's, which i didnt say the fastest pf's. he would beat just about every cnter down the floor. and overpower the ones that are faster than him.
