Kings given permission to talk to Elie

The Kings are bringing in a trio of former Warrior coaches. Musselman, Carlesimo, and Mario Elie.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2457165

I was hoping Mullin would make the move and give Mario a chance with the Warriors. But, it seems that Mullin trusts Montgomery enough to give him one more year. I hope Mario is successful, but I just hope that he gets his first chance with the W's. He's definitely the type of coach that would get his players playing just like he did ala Scott Skiles in Chicago and Avery with the Mavs.

 

Kings will probably go after Nellie. If they fail with him, I could see Elie getting the job.

If Mullin lets Elie go to only give the team to Monty there is no point to the season. NONE! Elie was the only guy that held guys accountable. Monty is going to be talking to himself. Mullin is a f@(@(*& idiot.

 

With the Warriors, I don't think it was a question of players not working hard, but it was a combo of things not working out because of our poorly constructed team (starters + bench) not playing individual defense/help defense. Plus, it's the Warriors not creating/scoring/moving the ball in various ways besides chucking ill advised shots or cycling around the arc constantly. Coach can't get the players to do what they are not designed to do and the players can't help but play the way they are used to playing. The Warriors also don't play organized teamball probably due to the fact they are either raw, they don't practice enough, or the lousy team design/depth takes away the ability in making adjustments to what the other team is throwing out there. This in turn frustrates all those involved including players and coaching staff, especially if there's GM interference with personal signings and guys under contract for many years. It's like the way we play is only one or two ways which can all be countered by a more "balanced" opposing team that can either play defense, outrun us, execute against us, or beat us at whatever identity we try to emulate. We just never control the tempo because we're built to be an all scoring team (with a lot of non-athletes + one-dimensional role players) that has trouble scoring in the open floor or executing together as a single unit. It's all guys trying to be one-on-one players and they're not very good with the %'s as a volume scorer or initiating plays (with the exception of maybe Jrich who isn't bad as a lead guard, but he still is not good as creating with the ball as Baron).

If I'm the opposing team with a more balanced roster and a lot of solid matchups and vet experience, I'm definitely taking out the Warriors where they are the weakest by slowing things down in tempo so the Warriors don't get an uber lead. Then if I got depth, keeping pace for the first three quarters is easy and then delivering the final blow in the 4th with my closers. If I'm struggling, there's a good chance the Warriors will shoot themselves in the foot by missing free throws, turning the ball over, failing to create a good shot or settling for threes because there's no other shot and the Warriors can't create with/without the ball individually or as a team. Opposing coaches know that the Warriors can't really cover up all their flaws and the keys to shutting them down is to let the backcourt become high volume shooters and deny anything in the paint or foul if necessary. In terms of a transition game in offense, the Warriors could do it if they are finishing on the break or shooting well and beating transition D like they did late last season, but it's a waste of energy if they're also not playing the defense to offset the opposing team's scoring or shooting their free throws or executing. A good, smart defensive team can just simply turn on the intensity on man-to-man defense, playing a little rougher knowing that the Warriors might miss some opportunities at the line. Plus this Warriors "style of play" has never been consistent without the presence of shooters, ballhandlers and finishers. If we can't create, we just got guys like Murphy, Fisher, Dunleavy jacking up shots and Foyle being left wide open, Jrich and Baron taking a large number of shots which no big men is in position to rebound the miss. Plus, would we want our bigs or shooters to crash the boards all the time, the way they play transition D? Hell no.

I strongly emphasize that although the Warriors have numerous problems on all levels of the organization, the roster is the most to blame. That blame then gets transferred to the guys who constructed that roster, whatever possibilities the franchise could have landed... I don't think the Warriors could have turned things around in two seasons... not with our financial backing and such inexperienced management.

Just because a guy went to college, doesn't mean he'll get rich... It takes a little luck, a fallback plan, followup move after good followup move, and the right opportunities coming along. It's like Chess in a way. Gotta think ahead and hopefully capitalize on an opportunity. There's hope for the Warriors, but it could take quite a while before we see something tangible unless we get really lucky somehow.

Some of us may think we have a playoff team now and the coach screwed us or it's because the players don't like the coach, but we don't. At least not in this conference. If you look at how the Clippers transformed, it was really no suprise if you look at the ingredients in their lineup and take out the coach. Good vet backcourt that can shoot, inside presence in the form of a 20/10 inside player with great footwork and a center that's solid. They also got some versatile players at the swing positions and a nice backup center who is a strong vet.

I can't think of anything more to say other than that the Warriors are never what they seem to be like in late season finishes with rookies or without. Guys like Adonal Foyle try to sell to everyone listening that this team is good, but what does he know. He can't even catch and he's never seen the playoffs himself because we're retarded enough to keep locking him up because we need stable personalities instead of guys with stable personalities and multi-dimensional talent. Okay, maybe I'm scapegoating Foyle a bit, he's not the sole problem for players, but we sure keep making collosal financial commitments to guys who really don't do much besides role play one or two things. It's like Dunleavy and Foyle do the little things for the good of the team and that's exactly true. Then we got "statpadders" who put up some great numbers consistently and we still don't win because they don't do the little things to make others better. So it's like damned if we do damned if we don't... there's no anchors on this team that set the tone for this franchise... and it's why we've suffered...

It's like the special of the day is "crap soup" and we keep replacing the cooks to turn it into something edible and we keep buying crap as an ingredient rather than the good stuff.

 

Sonics, Celtics, Chicago... Young teams with few stars and star type inside presence.

Blazers is also a young team with interior presence, but they got no perimeter game.

Warriors could probably get a little further if they were in the East, but here we are stuck in the ultra competitive Western conference...

We need the whole package of guys who know how to play in this league right now, depth, leadership, and guys who help formulate the whole inside-outside relationship on offense and do it consistently. Whether it's Shaq/Kobe or Stockton/Malone or Nash/Stoudamire-Marion or Duncan/Parker/Ginobilli, or Gasol + vet perimeter role players + depth
or even Dallas' center tandem with several great one-on-one players, we needed to have that experience and the talent to create/score the ball from anywhere. Most importantly we also need some solid defense or free throw shooting to keep things honest... in case the offense ain't flowing against a tougher defensive team.

Of course this is pretty obvious by now, but there's a consistent theme with teams who are in the playoffs and we don't match that theme at all.

All the young teams did not make the playoffs in the WC, and the Warriors are indeed one of the younger teams with many of its players haven't even seen the playoffs. The one team, the Rockets, who are older probably could have made it if they didn't have so many injury problems from the get-go. But the others are mostly young and are missing certain ingredients that we're missing.

 

If Mullin "chooses" Mike Montgomery over Mario Elie, and Chris Cohan lets him, then the Warriors can bite my a$$

 

Elie's not going anywhere. Don't worry.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">Elie's not going anywhere. Don't worry.</div>

You called it.

 

Well, if Kings actually offers the headcoach job, I don't see why Ellie will not take that job. After all, Ellie was rumored to take Muss' job two years ago, and I don't think he will turn down headcoaching job to remain an assistant. It would be interesting to see who will be the headcoach of Kings though. PJ and Artest? That would be a something to see. Or Muss coming back right next to Mullin and fight for PO spot...

 

Whisenant is probably going to end up being the coach. I just don't see the Maloofs offering the job to Elie.. He's not their buddy, nor is he a headline name.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know anything about Whisenant but if anyone outside of the Kings gets the job my guess would be Elie. Hes a guy who will get the players' respect and he was even assigned to deal with Artest when the rumors of Ron coming to GS were around. The Kings seem to be going in a different direction with guys like Artest and Wells. Elie would be a good fit with them because he commands respects, promotes discipline, and preaches defense.</div>

Agreed. I think it would be interesting to see if whoever goes to coach in Sactown keeps the Princeton offense or goes from scratch. Sactown's current team is right for the Princeton offense, they have a passing center, a few outside shouters, a good slasher.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CABANGBANG:</div><div class="quote_post">Agreed. I think it would be interesting to see if whoever goes to coach in Sactown keeps the Princeton offense or goes from scratch. Sactown's current team is right for the Princeton offense, they have a passing center, a few outside shouters, a good slasher.</div>
Air Pietrus changes his name yet again... lol

Let's hope Elie doesn't go elsewhere... I think Montgomery can be a great head coach if Mullin sets the table for him right and get guys that can execute and guys that can stop shooting themselves in the foot during the 4th quarters. Our history of firing coaches and still getting nowhere is pretty obvious to me (that firing another coach won't change things just like all the other times).

The largest problem, of course, is how the team is constructed, how it doesn't play man-to-man defense, shoot free throws, score inside and a bunch of other stuff. Warriors are just never in control because they can't beat teams in very many ways because they're not balanced enough and they can't hold anything defensively. Also, it doesn't help the Warriors play mostly well in games that don't matter late in the season, thereby affecting their draft status at lottery time. Heck every draft pick we've gotten since 2001 was mostly #9-11 with the exception of #5 2001 and #3 in 2002. Of all those picks only Jason Richardson was a real star, but it took him quite a while to become one.

With the way we've been drafting (which has been solid but with one B.A.P. bust) we just need some guys that are ready now. It's just too bad those sort of vet guys don't want to come here unless they get overpaid... It would be nice to get a solid vet presence from the bench again, just so long as guys like Pietrus, Ellis, Diogu get playing time so the management guys can see what they have in real game situations. BTW, I think Pietrus really sucked in halfcourt, but he's an above average open court player and his defense is better when he's ballhawking rather than playing zone.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Air Pietrus changes his name yet again... lol

Let's hope Elie doesn't go elsewhere... I think Montgomery can be a great head coach if Mullin sets the table for him right and get guys that can execute and guys that can stop shooting themselves in the foot during the 4th quarters. Our history of firing coaches and still getting nowhere is pretty obvious to me.

The largest problem, of course, is how the team is constructed, how it doesn't play man-to-man defense, shoot free throws, score inside and a bunch of other stuff. Warriors are just never in control because they can't beat teams in very many ways because they're not balanced enough and they can't hold anything defensively. Also, it doesn't help the Warriors play mostly well in games that don't matter late in the season, thereby affecting their draft status at lottery time. Heck every draft pick we've gotten since 2001 was mostly #9-11 with the exception of #5 2001 and #3 in 2002. Of all those picks only Jason Richardson was a real star, but it took him quite a while to become one.

With the way we've been drafting (which has been solid but with one B.A.P. bust) we just need some guys that are ready now. It's just too bad those sort of vet guys don't want to come here unless they get overpaid... It would be nice to get a solid vet presence from the bench again, just so long as guys like Pietrus, Ellis, Diogu get playing time so the management guys can see what they have in real game situations.</div>

Yeah. I changed my name for my new GFX set. I'll post it later.

 

I thought the Kings went bonkers and were going to hire the WNBA coach, but the Bee reported today that Eric Musselman was invited back for a second interview. Oi vei. That would really heat things up between the Kings and Warriors imo.

BTW I thought Emu would've been a good fit for the current bunch of Warriors.



Kings bringing Musselman back for second interview
By Sam Amick -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 10:31 am PDT Wednesday, May 31, 2006
The Kings will interview Memphis assistant and former Golden State head coach Eric Musselman for a second time tonight in Las Vegas, one week after he became the first candidate to interview for the head coaching post.

The decision supports what sources within the Kings organization have confirmed, that Musselman has surpassed Monarchs coach John Whisenant as the frontrunner after it was believed Whisenant had already been chosen by Kings co-owners and longtime friends Joe and Gavin Maloof.

But Musselman, who is known as one of the best interviewers in the industry, has a coaching resume that far outweighs that of Whisenant and Golden State assistant Mario Elie. Sources who confirmed Musselman's second interview asked not to be identified out of fear of job reprisals.

His NBA experience is extensive, beginning when he took a front office job with the Los Angeles Clippers following graduation from the University of San Diego. Musselman later became the Clippers assistant director of scouting before his first NBA coaching experience.

He spent the 1990-91 season as a Minnesota Timberwolves assistant coach under his father and then-head coach, the late Bill Musselman. In 1998, Musselman began a two-year stint as an assistant coach in Orlando, working first under Chuck Daly and then under Doc Rivers after serving as a scout for the Magic previously.

When he was named the Warriors coach in 2002, Golden State had not won more than 21 games in the previous four seasons. But Musselman led them to a 38-44 record in his first season and 37-45 in his second before he was fired.

Musselman spent seven years as a coach in the Continental Basketball Association, becoming the youngest coach in league history at 23 and posting a 270-122 record while leading the Florida Beach Dogs (whose name changed to the Rapid City Thrillers during his tenure). He was also the club's general manager for eight years, even hiring Detroit coach Flip Saunders - then a college assistant - in 1988 to coach the Thrillers.

Musselman's .688 winning percentage as a CBA coach was second in league history behind Denver head coach George Karl, who coached for five seasons in the CBA. Musselman also has experience in the United States Basketball League, coaching the Florida Sharks in the summers of 1995 and 1996. The Sharks were a combined 53-3 in his time (including playoffs), winning back-to-back USBL Championships. He holds the highest winning percentage in league history.

Musselman?s academic background supports his reputation as a good interviewer, as he was a three-time member of the West Coast Athletic Conference All-Academic squad during his playing career at the University of San Diego. Musselman played in two NCAA tournaments. Following his college career, Musselman was selected by the CBA?s Albany Patroons in the fifth round (58th overall) of the 1987 Draft.

 

Well Mussleman is in Sactown. We lost our chance of haveing a coach who doesn't care who you are and wants only good effort.

 

Unfortunately effort isn't what primarily wins games, it's franchise talent with fewer weaknesses and a lot more strengths than your competition. Just look at Foyle. He tries hard, but he still sucks.

Meanwhile a quiet, sort of seemingly passive kind of guy like Duncan sets the tone on both ends of the floor. I swear if we get a more balanced team for both ends of the floor, we could compete. We can't try to be an offensive team and suck at the variety of ways to score and create offense because our team is too physically/mentally slow moving without the ball/running plays or too mentally weak or unskilled at shooting. We certainly weren't going to compete with our defense with guys like Murphy and slow guards in the lineup.

I could care less if our coach was asleep in the stands, it's our sad roster that keeps us going to the lottery every single season. And it's bad enough as it is that it's not the kind of lottery where we can land a franchise or all-star player. The last time we picked such a player was #5 in 2001 with Jason Richardson. Ever since then, we've picked euro-projects and a 2002 draft bust which we had no real excellent choices to choose somebody besides Dunleavy (because Amare wouldn't work out for us and the rest were tweeners or projects as well).

Biedrins was an all right pick considering I didn't know we were getting Baron Davis. I would have liked a point guard. Maybe Jameer Nelson since he was college's best point guard and was largely responsible for St. Josephs going as far as they did in college. Josh Smith would have been awesome (he was like a taller Jason Richardson), but his workouts sucked. He would have been a top 3 or top 5 pick if he wasn't so disappointing in those high school all-star games or his workouts. This was probably due to the fact he didn't know how to play defense or create his own shot. Sound familar with Jrich?

Ike, Ellis, Taft I think was fantastic, but we'll see how it unfolds. They might or might not turn into Pietrus-like or Dunleavy-like or Foyle-like dissapointments.

This year's draft... I think we should go with Splitter and store him overseas... I want a potential starter and not a bench guy. I think this year's draft is full of bench guys or guys that won't stay long in the nba. That's my feeling. It's hard to guage other players like Carney or O'Bryant, but my feeling is if the upside is there, take it.

 

P.S.:

I hate reading this in scouting reports <font size="3">"</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="3">Deceptively quick and athletic</font></font><font size="3">"

</font>Which translates to <font size="3">"F'n slow most of the time"</font>

Please let us draft somebody with average or above average athleticism with skills for their position + basketball smarts! I don't even care if they're an inch or two short. Just look at D-Wade or our own Jrich. Jrich's only 6'3 or 6'4 (but weighs 225, still lighter than Baron). They inflated his measurements so he looks like a physical prototype of a shooting guard which is 6'6 or 6'5.

Then for big men, Brand and Zach Randolph are also successful "overweight-looking" undersized players because they move extremely well for their amount of bulk. Then there's Ben Wallace who is an all-star defensive guy at center in the Eastern Conference and guys like K-mart (before injuries). Unless guys are shooting the lights out like Chris Mullin or Larry Bird for 30 points a game and getting the foul line dozens of times per game, I'd prefer if we didn't get somebody that slow. I'd gamble on Adam Morrison, though since he was Gonzaga's superstar. There wasn't any Carlos Boozers or Jay Williams to help him out. But anyone else, ecchhh. No to slowness! Unless they pay in dividends like Brian Cardinal in 2003. 2 or 3 extra posessions a game plus some right on que shooting is nice to have. We need a guy that can drain a shot on que. Fisher is the only guy that does that and I have a love/hate relationship with that player.

 

Talk about the perfect set up.

When Mullin undercut Muss two years ago, he probably never guessed that Muss will be back within 100 miles of his club. But, Muss is back with probably more talent than his current club, and his choice of coach is still 'learning' after two years of period without any positive result.

It's nice to see Muss back coaching even though he is coaching our rival. I heard that he blew Kings' owners with 100+ scouting reports. Also, it was funny to hear that Arenas called Muss probably like 3-4 am to congraute him.

Is this a good fit for Muss? Mmm, I do not know. Because, I always thought Muss is better fit for teams with no identity and full of young players with no gureentee contracts. Players like Arenas, Dampier, Cardinas and Boykins would probably never got contracts they received if they weren't under Muss. In contrast, Kings have full of veterans with financial securities. Hopefully, he picked something in two years to cooperate better with veterans...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">
I always thought Muss is better fit for teams with no identity and full of young players with no gureentee contracts. Players like Arenas, Dampier, Cardinas and Boykins would probably never got contracts they received if they weren't under Muss. </div>

AND Dunleavy wouldn't have recieved the contract he got if Muss was here, since Muss knows Dunleavy stinks.

 

If Muss were here, Foyle and Dunleavy would have never left the bench. Muss played the guys who produced, not the guys who got paid. Hope he has great success in Sac.