<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Payton trade was definitely forced in my mind. Everybody and their mother expected it to happen at some point during the season. Desmond was in the trade because Ray was better than Gary at that point.</div> Everyone knew that management didn't want Payton around but I still believed that Payton wanted to sign one more long term deal w/ the Sonics to end his career. At that point he was still one of the best point guards in the league and I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a team would want to rent his services for a half of a season (hoping that he'd want to take a pay cut to return the following season) and give up an All-Star caliber player along w/ a high 1st round pick to do it. Obviously I didn't realize how much of an idiot Milwaukee Bucks GM Larry Harris was for believing that two months of Payton w/ Cassell was enough to get Milwaukee back to the ECF. I just thought that Payton would remain a disgruntled member of the Sonics and be forced to sign a deal elsewhere b/c the Sonics wouldn't offer him anything following the '02-'03 season. That was probably the best move that Rick Sund has made in his tenure as Sonics GM. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, but I was the first one in this topic to say trading up for Roy was a good idea. You claimed he wasn't the best fit.</div> I don't think he is the best fit w/ our current roster. But if we traded either Rashard Lewis or Ray Allen the first player I would want to draft would be Brandon Roy. That was where all of these trade proposals came from. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You seemed to take offense to the way I reacted to your proposed trade. That's no surprise. With the way I speak, I get that reaction all the time. I don't do it intentionally. Well...sometimes I do. It's just too fun to get you all riled up, Shiekypoo.</div> I haven't been as active on this site since I got my new coaching gig. I almost forgot how you impose your will on the novices in this forum. You and I have gone at each other since we came on this site and I wasn't going to let you bully the block in this thread. You keep me on my toes and when I get you to start using all caps in your responses I know that I got your full attention. So to sum it up, most of the time we go at it just expect a mutual disagreement--b/c as a self perceived wise man once told me the reason as to why people (Cas) have trouble convincing others (Shiek) that their theories hold the most weight is that "THEY. (YOU.) HAVE. NO. PROOF." -- Throwback 2005 argument (see Szczerbiak vs. Fortson)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">You keep me on my toes and when I get you to start using all caps in your responses I know that I got your full attention. So to sum it up, most of the time we go at it just expect a mutual disagreement--b/c as a self perceived wise man once told me the reason as to why people (Cas) have trouble convincing others (Shiek) that their theories hold the most weight is that "THEY (YOU) HAVE NO PROOF." -- Throwback 2005 argument (see Szczerbiak vs. Fortson)</div> Man, I seriously have no idea what that was supposed to mean.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">Man, I seriously have no idea what that was supposed to mean.</div> Link See post #35. You set the standard, fam.
But what are you referring to when you say I have no proof? No proof of what? All of my posts in that topic rocked, by the way. And what's with saying I ever post in all caps? And I don't think I ever confirmed this to you, but you know I'm black, right?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">But what are you referring to when you say I have no proof? No proof of what? All of my posts in that topic rocked, by the way. And what's with saying I ever post in all caps? And I don't think I ever confirmed this to you, but you know I'm black, right?</div> When do you have proof, fam? You have strong opinions just like everyone else does. But the difference is when someone goes at you you turn into a defense attorney. When you get mad you start making capitalizing words unnecessarily. Not in all caps, but I guess that is how one vents w/ words. If you are black, then you have done your damness to convince people otherwise. That strategy has worked for a ton of people, though. Just ask Bryant Gumbel and "The Juice." ...and for the record, if I were you I wouldn't have let that old argument go to the judges. You should have gone for the knockout, fam.
I don't see how you have more proof than me in any of these arguments. And I still don't know what you're talking about with the caps stuff. Hilariously enough, I have been compared to Bryant Gumbel many times on the internet. Really, I don't put any stock in acting "black". Of course, I am half white and was raised by my white mother in the second whitest major city in America. COINCIDENCE?
With 90% of the arguments that there are on this site, there isn't going to be a ton of evidence to support someone's stance. If basketball was a game whose outcomes were based solely on all quantifiable evidence than durvasa would have been in HOF coach by now. Bottom line, just be a little more open minded when it comes to proposed ideas to improving the team or any issues that are Sonics related. No one in this forum is a GM, so this is just some hypotheticals being thrown out before the draft comes--keeps the forum active. Matter fact, fam--just be more opened minded period. You are right. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to being black. You are smart kid who seems to have a bright future ahead of you. I'm just shocked that being a minority that you don't consider racism an important issue that needs to addressed continuously and consistently. I'm sure that if you haven't had any experiences of racism by now you have been living on borrowed time. And get off the "all caps" hang up. You capatilized You. Have. No. Proof. to make your point and I ran w/ it. No harm intent, fam. And I hope that there isn't too much of a divide between your parents sides of the family b/c that can do truly affect the psyche of an offspring caught in the middle. Embrace both of your heritages. It makes you who you are, young puppy.
I think you telling me to be more open-minded is hilarious. I disagreed with one trade scenario you posted and this whole thing happened. But it's fun going back and forth. Racism is important, of course, but the black community should be focusing on education, not blaming others. How much less racism would there be if more black people worked their way out of poverty? It's not the most important issue anymore.
If hard work is all it took to get out of poverty than every black american would be the beneficiary of the income their ancestors earned being at the mercy of whites. There is no class distinction in racism. Discrimination comes in all forms. Just b/c one qualifies for something doesn't mean that they will get it--and there are a lot of contributing factors to that. Some of those factors could be experience, type of training, education, sex, race, appearance, etc. I don't know how much time you spend in the black community but the communities that I've been are not a comprised of a bunch of lazy people who are looking for excuses as to why their lives aren't better. They are more comprised of people who do the best w/ the hand that they are dealt. There are different priorities in different households. Some households stress education more than everything. Some stress earning money. Some stress staying away from the negativity that surrounds them. Lack of education plays a role in why many minorities find themselves in the current socioeconomic state that they are in, but it isn't the only contributing factor. So, no matter how subtle racism is, when it affects someone's earning potential, their ability to provide for their family, their public reputation, or someone's self esteem than I am going to make it a point to address the issue. It may not seem important to you, but I still believe that this nation is very much far away from racial harmony--and I believe most of our problems in our nation deal with the ignorance that exist amongst people of all colors. ...and if the Sonics don't trade up for Roy or draft Randy Foye we should look to bring in a point guard--maybe Rondo.
I didn't mean to imply poor black people are lazy, but there is a sense of "why bother". The difference is, I don't attribute that to race. I attribute it to their environment. Kids who see drug dealers and gangs and single parents everywhere they go are being set up for failure. I believe trying to fix the almost themselves will do much more than any focus on racism, which is pretty much impossible to pinpoint because there are far less extreme racists in this day an age.
Contrary to popular opinion the majority of blacks don't grow up in an environment where excessive crime and drugs monopolize their communities. There is a high percentage of middle class minorities in our country but it seems as if the media portrays all majority black/non-white neighborhoods as unsafe and crime ridden. Are there a ton of areas throughout this country that fit that stereotype? Definitely. But growing up in a majority black community myself I was never fearful of potential danger. If it happened it happened.
Contrary to popular opinion the majority of blacks don't grow up in an environment where excessive crime and drugs monopolize their communities. There is a high percentage of minorities that live in middle class communities in our country but it seems as if the media portrays all majority black/non-white neighborhoods as unsafe and crime ridden. Are there a ton of areas throughout this country that fit that stereotype? Definitely. But growing up in a majority black community myself I was never fearful of potential danger. If it happened it happened. So I don't necessarily agree that minorities take on the "why bother to strive to be better" mentality b/c I feel that people of all colors are willing to put themselves in a better situation to succeed. That is why there is so much drug activity in some of these neighborhoods b/c the dealers are trying to improve their financial status. There is obviously a large risk in doing that but until a comparable alternative is presented to them they are going to look to maximize their earning potential. And the same type of narcotic distribution is happening in areas that have no minority representation as well. It just isn't getting highlighted through the media or investigated thoroughly by the authorities. This country is filled with minorities who are making wonderful contributions to this country. My only point is that if more qualified minorities were given an opportunity to excel in their fields of interest than there wouldn't be such a negative image of the black/latino community in this country.
That's pretty sad... I live in an area where a lot of minorities live...lots of Latinos...Asians...and well not a LOT of blacks...but lots of minority. And people stereotype that we are "ghetto" or "uneducated" and "poor" because of this.
