Trading the #9 pick

This will be the thread for trade scenarios involving trading the #9 pick for another team's draft rights to a player, a future pick, or a later pick in this year's draft or using #9 to dump a bad contract.

Would anybody be up for this? Trade the #9 for the draft rights to Fran Vasquez. I guess the reason I would gamble on this is because Vasquez is very similar to Andris Biedrins (who I like) in a lot of ways except with more experience playing at a higher level, better offensive game (reliable 15 foot jumper), converts on Alley-oops. He's more like Marcus Camby I should say. This would be some sort of contingency plan if Biedrins flaws are too horrible to live with at starting center. The question is, is Vasquez too old to improve his game, can he do what he does like in Europe, and is he big enough to play center in the Western Conference? Also what is the deal on this guy? Did he re-sign with another team in Europe or is his contract due to expire soon so that he can join the Magic or another nba team?

Anyway, I'll think of more. Please leave comments whether or not this trade is plausible or if it's a good/bad idea. It's hard to find center talent these days unless we pick in the top two, so we better start looking somewhere else...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">This will be the thread for trade scenarios involving trading the #9 pick for another team's draft rights to a player, a future pick, or a later pick in this year's draft or using #9 to dump a bad contract.

Would anybody be up for this? Trade the #9 for the draft rights to Fran Vasquez. I guess the reason I would gamble on this is because Vasquez is very similar to Andris Biedrins (who I like) in a lot of ways except with more experience playing at a higher level, better offensive game (reliable 15 foot jumper), converts on Alley-oops. He's more like Marcus Camby I should say. This would be some sort of contingency plan if Biedrins flaws are too horrible to live with at starting center. The question is, is Vasquez too old to improve his game, can he do what he does like in Europe, and is he big enough to play center in the Western Conference? Also what is the deal on this guy? Did he re-sign with another team in Europe or is his contract due to expire soon so that he can join the Magic or another nba team?

Anyway, I'll think of more. Please leave comments whether or not this trade is plausible or if it's a good/bad idea. It's hard to find center talent these days unless we pick in the top two, so we better start looking somewhere else...</div>

Vazquez signed a 4 year contract right after he was drafted last year. Supposedly though Otis Smith is making progress with him and he expects that he will be in Orlando after next season. I do think if he ever comes over, he would be a very good player(well from what I read about him). He seems to not have many weaknesses at all, from what I read he does everything good, but nothing great. Oh, and I would definetely take the #9 pick for him. So that we can use the 9 and 11 to move up. If the rumors with the Hawks falls through(11 and Fran for 6) and a guy that we are targeting has dropped to #9(Roy-not likely) I would probably do Fran and 11 for the 9 and a 2nd rounder or a future 1st(one with a lot of protection-so that it doesn't hurt you guys anytime soon)

btw-good luck next year, hopefully you all will be like the Clippers and finally end your drought.

 

I don't know how the pick is valued as far as cap space and trade value (i.e. can you trade the pick straight up for a $3 million contract?) but I would definately find a way to package this pick with either Adonal Foyle or Derek Fisher.

Ideally, I would do Adonal Foyle + pick for any expiring contract

but this will never happen, so I would try to use the pick to sweeten an even larger pot.

Adonal Foyle + Mickael Pietrus + Troy Murphy + Pick

for

Zaza Pachulia + Marvin Wlliams + Josh Childress

Although I don't know why they'd do this unless they wanted the pick.

I just want to do anything -- anything that involves moving Derek Fisher and /or Adonal Foyle.

 

Although if Biedrins turns out to be solid, I won't mind Adonal getting occaisional back-up minutes -- it's just his contract is so fat. No, I guess having Derek Fisher is even worse than having Foyle. There's a log-jam, especially if we keep both Monta Ellis and Will Bynum (who I prefer over Fisher).

How about moving the pick + Derek Fisher + whatever else to land a good swing player at the 3 (with Dunleavy underachieving and Pietrus leaving).

Like:

Derek Fisher + Pick + whatever for Marvin Williams or Josh Childress + filler

Again, why would the Hawks do this? It would be stupid. But I don't care -- do it!

 

Thanks Gator. BTW, now I think about that move for young center talent (because AlleyOop suggests moving Foyle ASAP), it doesn't get rid of our bad contracts (which is a big problem for any future salaries we take on).

We have to do something about Foyle or Fisher... because they are our worst intended starters in a long while. I'd rather role with a washed up vet like Dale Davis or Clif Robinson because at least they were talented enough to be selected to the allstar team once in their lives. Meanwhile Foyle will still stink as starter and Fisher will still rely on other guys to create with the ball for him.

 

AlleyOop, btw Zaza Pachulia + Marvin Wlliams + Josh Childress.

NICE!

Realistically, I can't think of anything where anybody would want our bad contracts with a draft pick that's considered to be in a potentially weak draft. This is exactly why Mullin shouldn't re-sign low-trade value guys for big money. Nobody else wants them so we're stuck not being able to do anything about it if they don't pan out. If we had made Foyle the last free agent signing, I bet we could have had a better bargain on some other center or Foyle himself. If two or three other teams were interested in them, let those guys overpay and groan everytime he drops a pass or a rebound.

--- moving up in the draft ---

Okay, let's say we're after a highly athletic, high basketball I.Q. small forward like Rudy Gay. Would we want to move up to #4, #5, #6 spots?

Let's hope those teams drafting above us have small forward issues and would be willing to trade the pick. Bobcats have Wallace and plenty of point guards, power forwards. They seem to have some decent big man presence, good playmakers at the small guards, but they probably need a big scorer on the wings or a center (they'll probably go for a swing man). They might just draft a scorer for whatever perimeter position they have up for grabs (besides point guard).

Portland probably needs some reliable scorers but they drafted a high school project last season to be a future shooting guard. They've also got quite an injury prone middle, but it's solid defensively. I bet Portland will do everything to get rid of D-miles and some of the other John Nash moves. I think Portland could definitely use some guys that could shoot and pass. Would they add in another point or combo guard?

Atlanta has too many forwards as it is. But it just goes to show that they might just follow the consensus B.A.P. even though they ignored for a while Chris Paul was #1 overall. I don't know why a lot of teams passed up on Paul. Maybe workouts weren't that good, he refused to workout, or people think short guys can't play point guard. No, it's slow guys can't play point guard (unless there are other fast guys with the ball to create for him). Anyway, I wonder "who Atlanta will draft?"

Also, Bogut/Marvin Williams were getting massive hype. Utah must have really had their sights set on Deron Williams to pass up on Paul. Paul was B.A.P. at #2 IMO before the draft even started. Williams was B.A.P. at #3 or #2, but I didn't understand why since he only started receiving a lot of hype recently.

Minny will probably draft a point guard or power forward (if one should fall).

Then with Houston... they probably needs a strong forward. I think the one guy that could fit in well with Yao would be some guy like Rasheed Wallace. Some guy that can hit some long twos from the baseline, block shots, defend the post, score inside a little, pass. Heck even a younger Clif Robinson/Robert Horry would have worked here. So who in the draft resembles those guys? Probably Bargnani or Aldrige. I bet the houston guys are thinking, trade the pick as well.

What if we gave Houston Zarko or trade Murphy's deal? I don't see it happening because Houston preaches defense, which is why they try to line up all the vets and starters that can play defense. The problem is then the scoring load has to fall on T-mac or Yao and maybe some on Rafer Alston. They need another guy who can do both scoring and defense (like Sheed/Clif Robinson and Horry do). Maybe they'll just go for another shooting guard because Derek Anderson just can't stay healthy or shoot very consistently. Bobby Sura's been hurt for a while as well. A team designed around a big guy needs healthy perimeter play or else everyone swarms the middle and starts hacking at the ball.


Hmmm... lots of things could happen without us being involved in a trade.

If we can't get what we want maybe it's just best to go for B.A.P... For fans of Nene's game we might just trade down and take Cedric Simmons for a possible center prospect. The only problem is by the time these guys get any good, the other good guys we have get traded... I just think we shouldn't take on more draft prospects that aren't ready to play, but we shouldn't draft safe picks that wind up being busts as starters. This is why I was hoping we could swing a deal to move up and get bball I.Q. + athleticism or trade the pick for a proven vet that can actually start for a playoff team.

Anyway, I'm just throwing out team names where we might be able to step in or foresee some trades happening which causes some names to move up or down in the draft before we're up.

 

I doubt Atl admits a mistake and deals Marvin yet,unless some team actually thinks the kid will get some interest in playing D,in something besides a perimeter J,an uncontested dunk and whatever else comes easy.

Monty is a flop. Any Warrior is probably better than he could show,and anyone coming in would be handicapped by Monty sticking with his precious semi-pro "system".

The Warriors will probe for a dump deal with the Knix while Isaiah is still in charge,hopeful to turn Foyle and or Fish into an expiring ( Taylor or J Rose) possible cost-shipping and handling= Pietrus or a pick swap.

Longshot----W's do a BIG deal with the Bobs...we give J Rich,dump Dun + Fish,give #9,next years Philly #1.....we get G Wallace,Knight,#3..maybe Ely.
...more tweaks perhaps?

W's get a SF who does a lot. Lots of steals,blocks,assists,boards. At 3 we grab Morrison? and maybe he's a heavy scorer-shooter a Reggie Miller,Pete Maravich who,with Wallace-Pietrus gives us choices at the wing spots. Knight is way better for us than Fish,and once Monta is PG roadtested,Knight will be tradeable. Ely,if included,is nice as a keeper or as trade bait.

 

Vasquez was a helluva ???? guy at best. Add in that he's got a Euro contract and would cost anything...though we have yet to know he's better than Zarko,who can't get floor time...it's not likely.

I'd rather try to do a small deal to get A Blatche,who our NEXT coach might develop.

What I FEAR...we overpay to get ONE big name star..J O'Neal? a 30 yr old $20 mill-per guy and we pay heavy,we improve,short term,maybe just a bit,but sacrafice a lot more in terms of the future. We need to BUILD VALUE,we need to turn our guys into more than they are,not give them away as Monty-damaged bargains or guys we never got around to looking at. take Zarko. Market value? not even what we paid for him. Upside? pretty damn good with some luck and coaching. He IS 6-11,can shoot,handle,pass,and were he a Euro-draft-prospect this year would get compared to Bargnani.
Murphy has been asked by the team to shoot 3's to bulk up,to play Monty's gimmick zones. He's a guy a RATIONAL team/coach can turn into a star.
Dunleavy,however is the guy the team keeps trying to showcase,and the more opportunity Done-Dun gets the more he shows that his mood swings and athletic limits are such that he can't be seen as a reliable big minutes guy. Blunder in drafting-Contract extension. Mullin at some point has to NOT tie his career to Dun and Monty or he's a goner.

 

How about, repping the mavs, ill give you the 28th plus KVH's huge expiring contract for the 9 and some of your garbage cap killing salaries?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt Atl admits a mistake and deals Marvin yet,unless some team actually thinks the kid will get some interest in playing D,in something besides a perimeter J,an uncontested dunk and whatever else comes easy.

Monty is a flop. Any Warrior is probably better than he could show,and anyone coming in would be handicapped by Monty sticking with his precious semi-pro "system".

The Warriors will probe for a dump deal with the Knix while Isaiah is still in charge,hopeful to turn Foyle and or Fish into an expiring ( Taylor or J Rose) possible cost-shipping and handling= Pietrus or a pick swap.

Longshot----W's do a BIG deal with the Bobs...we give J Rich,dump Dun + Fish,give #9,next years Philly #1.....we get G Wallace,Knight,#3..maybe Ely.
...more tweaks perhaps?

W's get a SF who does a lot. Lots of steals,blocks,assists,boards. At 3 we grab Morrison? and maybe he's a heavy scorer-shooter a Reggie Miller,Pete Maravich who,with Wallace-Pietrus gives us choices at the wing spots. Knight is way better for us than Fish,and once Monta is PG roadtested,Knight will be tradeable. Ely,if included,is nice as a keeper or as trade bait.</div>
We're giving Jrich in order to dump Dun n' Fish and our #9 to get two players on the Bobcats that includes Gerald Wallace and their #3 (which will be used for Morrison if he doesn't get drafted #1)? Ouch... Our scoring will then be f-ed as much as our defense will be without that center and Murphy still starting IMO.

REREM, continual scapegoating of Montgomery is just getting old, I'm sorry. I don't mind taking shots at Dunleavy because that guy was spoon fed since he was drafted and had four years to prove himself, but what about guys that really suck like Foyle for 8 years and Fisher playing at point guard for two seasons with us and having been in the league for 9-10 years. The coach has no choice but to play those type of guys if the GM only signed those guys the offseason before last. What is he going to do, not play the players the minutes that Mullin signed them millions of dollars for? Hell, that's a nice overpaid bench of Foyle, Dunleavy, Fisher to back up a bunch of rookies who haven't even proved themselves yet and might develop into headcases with all the losing and pressure they are not ready for yet.

So for Diogu, Ellis not getting minutes, I say hold them back so they don't get too used to losing so early in their career. Let's not set them up to fail by throwing them in a system where the other guys don't even know the plays as well. If they learn the plays, get used to it, get confident of their skills where they don't have to think about it and get used to the idea of a winning culture, by all means hold the rookies back so we can jettison the crap we got right now and make room for them. When I mean "jettison" I mean of course getting something of value to us in return, but for Foyle, Dunleavy, and Fish? Who wants those guys except for maybe Fisher? Only by some miracle can we pull some Miami heat type of trade and dump some bloated deals and get a franchise difference maker rather than dump guys for nothing. That's a dream though not reality. Not sure Mullin can go for another one after the Baron Davis trade and getting rid of Dale Davis. But you see, this whole salary structure and future planning and direction for the Warriors has all been f-ed up for years that it doesn't matter what coach we put in. Let's get some good direction in our franchise and a budget that the team can afford so we can find out what our style and identity is, so we can hire that IDEAL coach. Right now forget it, focus on the players because they are the ones doing all the work and getting the results and I see a bunch of players that don't have the ability to do the things required in a motion offense or a fastbreak offense. The frontcourt just doesn't do what we need it to do, especially at center, and our only real point guard is Baron Davis who is hurt most of the time and can't shoot.

Hell, if I was Baron and Foyle was the only dumbass open, I still wouldn't pass to him. My 37% shooting has a better chance of going in then Foyle catching and laying it up consistently.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WhiteManCanJump:</div><div class="quote_post">How about, repping the mavs, ill give you the 28th plus KVH's huge expiring contract for the 9 and some of your garbage cap killing salaries?</div>
How about take Foyle/Dunleavy/Fisher in that order? We'll even take 3rd stringer Erick Dampier off your hands and lament his shortcomings at starting center instead of Foyle's. Dampier is to Foyle as piss is to poo in terms of starting centers. At least a pure point like Baron ought to find ways to help him score more than 6 points a game rather than Terry, Stackhouse or Dirk going one-on-one all the time. Even with Damp's bad hands and all. At least he'll totally drop it instead of bobbling it three times before batting it to the opposing team for an easy fastbreak.

Dunleavy is probably less of a problem than we do have at PF/C with Foyle and Murphy as starter, but Murph is a lot more tradeable than Dunleavy who is basically good at nothing. Wouldn't mind the Mavs taking him as well. Even though Mickael Pietrus is dumb as a rock he's still got some firepower when it comes to lateral speed on D and fearlessness in attacking the rim. Teams probably ask more about Murph and Pietrus more than they do Dunleavy. But Mullin has a thing for him.

Fisher... ugh... How did the Lakers ever run fastbreaks with him involved? The Warriors were thought of as a fastbreak team ever since they've lacked inside presence and a basketball I.Q. and they couldn't have signed a worse candidate over Speedy Claxton who actually did a good job as floor general... Dump Fish because we ain't getting any dribble penetration or fastbreak decision making unless Jrich is that guy (which he's not and neither is Dun).

So yeah, dumping a whole lot of crap works for me if it only means the #9 in this year's draft. I'll even take no first round pick in return! We've got like two next year from the original Dampier trade.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Dampier is to Foyle as piss is to poo in terms of starting centers.</div> Oh CR2, quite frankly I'm apalled at your choice of words here -- I mean we're talking about the difference between #1 and #2 for crimeny sakes!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Fisher... ugh... How did the Lakers ever run fastbreaks with him involved? Dump Fish because we ain't getting any dribble penetration or fastbreak decision making...</div>

What, you mean Fish getting the ball, curling his neck so that his chin is tucked into his chest and all he can see is the floor, part of the ball, and his own jersey -- running full speed all-out sprint regardless of whatever the fu*k is happening on the basketball court -- running right into the defender and completely negating any advantage that he may have with fellow teammates -- disregarding any notion of the concept of a "pass" (i.e. taking the ball and pushing it with your hands in the direction of a teammate, that they may have a chance to play the game as well) -- and going at the lone defender like a fullback at the goalline, finally looking up from his 1-track-focus to realize that oh sh!t, he's already underneath the backboard and falling out of bounds, he better try and lower his shoulder to draw the foul, as he attempts to turn what should have been a no-brainer finger-roll lay-up of a teammate into a "fade-away" jumpshot lay-up (that's the best description of this horrific sight I can give) falling out of bounds, except that it doesn't even tick rim, it only flirts with that foam-rubber material they use to pad the edges of the backboard, and what's worse, to his dismay, Fisher isn't given the foul call because frankly Dick Bavetta is standing there thinking to himself "damn dude I'm 85 years of age and your sorry scrub a$$ is on the floor and your tired a$$ game is older than I am -- c'mon Fish WTF was that?" that's what Dickie B. is thinking so he doesn't blow his whistle and Montgomery is thinking "Gawd I should have run the 3-man weave in practice" but Mario Elie is thinking "dude even if you tried to run the 3-man weave in practice Monty this ghetto-a$$ Fisher would just think that's the latest hair style" and Monta Ellis is thinking "WTF I'm 19 out of highschool and I can run the fast break better than Derek Fisher will ever even dream of being able to" and Montgomery is thinking" yeah you're a superior player in every way Monta but you're not a veteran leader, you don't kiss my a$$ like Fisher, and you're not .4, so I'm going to have to play Fisher 35+ minutes a night."


Is that the fast break you're talking about?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh CR2, quite frankly I'm apalled at your choice of words here -- I mean we're talking about the difference between #1 and #2 for crimeny sakes!
</div>
Well Dampier and Foyle are different in that they come from one end or the other, but ingesting #1 won't kill you as much as #2 can. So I'll take Dampier and hire a hypnotist to make him think that this year is a contract year.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">
What, you mean Fish getting the ball, curling his neck so that his chin is tucked into his chest and all he can see is the floor, part of the ball, and his own jersey -- running full speed all-out sprint regardless of whatever the fu*k is happening on the basketball court -- running right into the defender and completely negating any advantage that he may have with fellow teammates -- disregarding any notion of the concept of a "pass" (i.e. taking the ball and pushing it with your hands in the direction of a teammate, that they may have a chance to play the game as well) -- and going at the lone defender like a fullback at the goalline, finally looking up from his 1-track-focus to realize that oh sh!t, he's already underneath the backboard and falling out of bounds, he better try and lower his shoulder to draw the foul, as he attempts to turn what should have been a no-brainer finger-roll lay-up of a teammate into a "fade-away" jumpshot lay-up (that's the best description of this horrific sight I can give) falling out of bounds, except that it doesn't even tick rim, it only flirts with that foam-rubber material they use to pad the edges of the backboard, and what's worse, to his dismay, Fisher isn't given the foul call because frankly Dick Bavetta is standing there thinking to himself "damn dude I'm 85 years of age and your sorry scrub a$$ is on the floor and your tired a$$ game is older than I am -- c'mon Fish WTF was that?" that's what Dickie B. is thinking so he doesn't blow his whistle and Montgomery is thinking "Gawd I should have run the 3-man weave in practice" but Mario Elie is thinking "dude even if you tried to run the 3-man weave in practice Monty this ghetto-a$$ Fisher would just think that's the latest hair style" and Monta Ellis is thinking "WTF I'm 19 out of highschool and I can run the fast break better than Derek Fisher will ever even dream of being able to" and Montgomery is thinking" yeah you're a superior player in every way Monta but you're not a veteran leader, you don't kiss my a$$ like Fisher, and you're not .4, so I'm going to have to play Fisher 35+ minutes a night."


Is that the fast break you're talking about?</div>
Yeah, I'd actually welcome that so long as Fisher puts up good stats like he's been doing so he can be shipped out later. We just signed the guy , the ink on his contract isn't even dry yet, and our only option is to put in a rookie high school shooting guard to play point guard and probably has less of an idea how to run a team? I loathe Fisher and his decision making, but there's no need to rush Montay into some meaningless games in a losing situation. I want all the young guys to not be used to losing and play up all the guys that we're trying to move out. If that means Dunleavy and Fisher get benched to showcase Fisher and Murphy to make room for Ellis and Ike, so be it. Lack of dribble penetration and Foyle is a huge problem, which was why Murphy went in at center and Dunleavy at pf to create dribble penetration since Foyle just plain sux and Biedrins can't stay on the floor two minutes without picking up a foul and helping putting the team over the limit. Who else would play center? Zarko or Diogu? Zarko's offense ain't the same and his defense could be a bit better than Murphy but he's too weak and he doesn't rebound worth crap. Diogu struggles a bit trying to rebound at the center position and he's got some problems moving laterally on defense.

I'm not saying its easy or the replacements will be any better, but Foyle/Fish/Dunleavy/Murphy have got to go. If they ain't a star player, get paid a lot more money above market price because they are on a losing team, and they're tweener-ing up the roster and don't play both sides of the floor and don't do other things like pass or do dirty work, they've got to go.

Even on paper you can imagine higher % shots fired in the paint, more ball movement, better defense if we had a lineup of:

C: Taft or hopefully improved Biedrins
PF: Ike Diogu
SF: Mike Dunleavy Jr. (No excuses that Baron won't pass inside and he'll settle for streetball and no excuses that MDJ will have nowhere to go to once he has the ball)
SG: Jason Richardson
PG: Baron Davis or even Ellis if he can give up the rock and still be effective

I mean this is a roster shake up isn't it? The only issue would be experience and shooting ability, but hey most of our team shot sub 40% anyway and made one-pass type of shots. Maybe an inside presence will change all that. I think the F/C tandem is not tall, but strong and physical enough to make up for lack of size. It could run or play halfcourt on isolations and both bigs block shots and have great hands. Now, I don't know if Dunleavy should start anymore, but heck we need some glue guy out there and Pietrus ain't that secondary ballhandler that looks to pass. He's a scorer/defensive stopper off the bench. If we got Diogu/Jrich and Baron up front that should be enough inside/outside attack with Taft and Dunleavy able to do some things. If we got Ellis/Pietrus on the bench then we got two defensive guys who can score, Biedrins can play the center, Zarko could even be the PF if we decide to keep him. Small forward option could go to a draft pick or an invite if Mullin would stop this crap where he purposely makes it so there's no SF depth whatsoever. I mean Pietrus may have no shooting guard game, but he's clearly a shooting guard type body. If we switched Piety back to shooting guard in open court situations he'll shine. Maybe he might be best suited towards playing with Baron in the starting rotation but he's too much like Jrich in some ways in not having that real shooting guard type of skills that most point guards also possess... Ugg... We need to fix the small forward spot as well as center or get a bigger version of Ike. I'd take Sheldon Williams if we could trade that protected first round pick, but fat chance of that happening, especially if neither Taft or Williams is a center and Biedrins ends up as power forward.