As fans we should be EXTREMELY happy with the level of basketball being played right now and all of the talent out there currenty. Now I grew up watching basketball in the early 90's and after MJ retired, I really didn't see the game getting back to the level that it was once at.....but after this year, I think it might actually get better.....just think of all the great players at each position, and compare them to other eras Centers: Yao Shaq Ben Power Forwards: Duncan Garnett Dirk Brand Amarie O'Neal Bosh Gausol Small Forwards: Tmac Lebron Marion Melo Artest Carter Shooting Guards: Kobe Wade Pierce Hamilton Redd Iverson Manu Jefferson Point Guards: Nash Billups Kidd Parker Terry Bibby Arenas Cassell Heinrich and that's just off the top of my head. (i'm SURE I left out some more) I mean I always hear "experts" saying that the game will never be like it used to be, and I can see what they mean from a certain point, because the game is always changing, but the level of talent imo is as high now as it's ever been (except for at the center position)....I think all the experts need to stop complaining and embrace what we are witnessing.
Switch Carter and Jefferson. I think you could make a case for Jason Williams too. He went 10-12 in game 6 vs. Detroit. Brad Miller is another big guy you can add to the list, he is a very versatile player.
There's a lot of talent now, but I don't think it will ever top the 80's. Center : Hakeem Moses Parish Kareem Brad Daugherty Laimbeer Ewing Robinson Power Forward: McHale Barkley Malone Rodman Mahorn Horace Grant Small Forward: Bird Pippen Wilkins Worthy Doc Pippen Chris Mullin Shooting Guard: MJ Drexler Bernard King Dantley Dennis Johnson Sidney Moncrief Reggie Miller Gervin Dumars Point Guard: Magic Stockton KJ T. Hardaway Isiah And I left a lot of people out, e.g. Bill Walton, Byron Scott. Right now we have some talented players, but NOT as talented as this group.
well some of those guys you listed from the 80's weren't as great as they were later on in their careers (Malone, Barkley, Hakeem,etc. would all go to the 90's bracket for me), but my main point in making the thread is just for people to realize the amazing talent playing in our league right now.
Outside of Kobe, Wade, Arenas, Stoudemire, D. Howard and LBJ I'm not sold on anyone. Those 6 could be stars in any era, but the rest would just be a bunch of good to great 2nd options.(that excludes Shaq of course, but he is in his decline)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phuzer:</div><div class="quote_post">Outside of Kobe, Wade, Arenas, Stoudemire, D. Howard and LBJ I'm not sold on anyone. Those 6 could be stars in any era, but the rest would just be a bunch of good to great 2nd options.(that excludes Shaq of course, but he is in his decline)</div> As I agree, I'm going to add some more players to that list: Brand, Dirk, Iverson, and Kidd. The rest of the players listed, I honestly don't know how they'd fare in the 80's. Would they be average players? Defense was harder back then. It's an interesting thing to think about.
I'm not saying this is the greatest group of players ever, but a lot of the leagues top players are just as good or if not better than players in other eras. 90's Center: Hakeem Shaq Robinson Ewing Mutombo PF: Barkley Malone Kemp Derrick Coleman SF: Pippen Hill Mullin SG: MJ Drexler PG: Stockton Payton P. Hardaway T. Hardaway I realize there are many more players, but I honestly think that you can make an argument that the players are better now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Outside of Kobe, Wade, Arenas, Stoudemire, D. Howard and LBJ I'm not sold on anyone. Those 6 could be stars in any era, but the rest would just be a bunch of good to great 2nd options.(that excludes Shaq of course, but he is in his decline)</div> Kobe, Wade, Arenas, Amarie, Duncan, Dirk, Tmac, Lebron, Garnett, and A LOT of the people I named would be great players in ANY era EDIT <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Center : Hakeem Moses Parish Kareem Brad Daugherty Laimbeer Ewing Robinson Power Forward: McHale Barkley Malone Rodman Mahorn Horace Grant Small Forward: Bird Pippen Wilkins Worthy Doc Pippen Chris Mullin Shooting Guard: MJ Drexler Bernard King Dantley Dennis Johnson Sidney Moncrief Reggie Miller Gervin Dumars Point Guard: Magic Stockton KJ T. Hardaway </div> Barkley and Malone (at that stage in their careers) weren't on the level of Duncan, Dirk, and maybe a couple others (you can make an argument though).....the SF's, I'll give you Wilkins, Bird, and Worthy.....but Lebron, Tmac, Marion, Melo, Artest, Prince don't sound that bad either.....with the SG's you can go either way, because MJ and Drexler were pretty damn good at that time, but so are Kobe, Wade, and A.I.....I don't think any of the postion players then, totally blow the talent now out of the water, except for the center position.
and you can't forget Thomas in the 80's.......Magic and Isiah are two of the best to ever play the position....Magic probably being the best
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">and you can't forget Thomas in the 80's.......Magic and Isiah are two of the best to ever play the position....Magic probably being the best</div> You can make a case for every decade, I guess. But I just think that 80's era was more special than any other.
I'm just really looking forward to watching these players blossom and grow......who knows after this crew is done, we might be saying that a lot of these players were some of the greatest to ever play the game.
It makes me sick that the NBA had to change the rules so dramatically to get the game to be more exciting and gain more viewers. Its impossible to play defense now since the defender isn't allowed to hand check and they might as well abolish the rules of verticality because any guard can jump into a defender at full speed and it will be a foul on the defender 90% of the time. This in turn forces all of the elite defenders to have to flop or "play dirty" because theres just no other way to contain anyone from scoring. The refs don't help with their inconsistent calls. Complaining to the refs is at an all-time high partly because the officiating is terrible but mostly because it brings results. If Kobe doesn't get a call he and Phil Jackson can go and chew the ref out and the next play Kobe gets a foul on a play with less contact. That goes for all superstar players and coaches, not just Kobe/Phil. The higher scoring is fun to watch in the playoffs but any fan of a crappy team knows how frustrating watching a game can be when a team like the Blazers, who get no respect, plays a team like the Mavericks, who have superstar flopper and complainer, Dirk, as well as a respected coach. Its just unfair when a weaker team outplays a "better" team but the referees decide the outcome which favors the superstar and/or more successful team almost all the time. This season we had 4 30 point scorers if I remember correctly. That sounds good but its awful for the game when you put certain players (guards) at an advantage and put the others (the bigs) at a disadvantage. NBA basketball is no longer a contact sport at all, players with the ball do whatever they want and players without the ball have to move out of the way and try to outscore the other team. Great fun for casual fans who would otherwise not watch basketball but its comparable to the MLB allowing steroids to be widely used in the 90's because its improving ratings. I know, steroid use is cheating but the point is the league is comprimising the integrity of the game to try to gain more money. I hate it but I'm never going to stop watching basketball because I love the game too much to just stop rooting for my favorite team (which is horrible). It seems like over the past two years I've been slowly favoring college basketball to NBA basketball and I believe all the crap that occurs in NBA games is the driving force behind it. NBA basketball is just becoming less and less of a game and more of a political league that is only focused on becoming as good as the NFL in terms of gaining money and popularity instead of focusing on being its own league and preserving the game for how it's been since the league started. -End rant
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but its comparable to the MLB allowing steroids to be widely used in the 90's because its improving ratings. </div> LOL, I wouldn't go that far, but yeah the game has been "softened" up to an extent, but that still doesn't take away from the talent that a lot of these players have nowadays.....and I love watching the NCAA tournament, and you cancall me superficial if you want but.....Watching NBA >>> watching NCAA
We need more centers in the NBA, Shaq is going to run out of diesel soon, and Ben isn't getting younger. The only young one is Yao Ming, and maybe even Emeka Okafor, who knows. He has a lot to prove ever since his injuries has been bothering him for almost his whole career. I'm sure im leaving out some other good centers, but i'd like to see more.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post"> I love watching the NCAA tournament, and you cancall me superficial if you want but.....Watching NBA >>> watching NCAA</div> Exactly what I'm getting at. The NBA is funner to watch but the game is so full of crap with the superstars doing whatever they want and no defense being played. Its fun to watch but to me it takes away from how the game was meant to be played. From the standpoint of how smoothly and fluidly a game runs, the NBA is alot better. I've come to like NCAA games more because even though the game is slower its more competitive on both ends of the floor. In an NCAA game if the ball goes to a star player they are going to try to make a play but in the NBA you give the ball to Manu, Arenas, Kobe, Dirk, or whoever and they jump into a defender and throw their hands into the air and they get the call most of the time. I'd much rather watch Adam Morrison, Len Powe, or Brandon Roy who works their ass off to get a shot and aren't determined to get to the free throw line every time they get the ball. Its just painful to watch games where (this is a real example that happened last season) the Lakers are down 10+ points to the Warriors at the end of the 3rd quarter and in the 4th quarter the Lakers send the game to OT and win because they had a 19-1 FT advantage in the 4th quarter. Its also frustrating to watch players flop but you can't blame them since it brings results, you don't see nearly as much of this type of stuff in college basketball. The players determine who wins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">It makes me sick that the NBA had to change the rules so dramatically to get the game to be more exciting and gain more viewers. Its impossible to play defense now since the defender isn't allowed to hand check and they might as well abolish the rules of verticality because any guard can jump into a defender at full speed and it will be a foul on the defender 90% of the time. This in turn forces all of the elite defenders to have to flop or "play dirty" because theres just no other way to contain anyone from scoring. The refs don't help with their inconsistent calls. Complaining to the refs is at an all-time high partly because the officiating is terrible but mostly because it brings results. If Kobe doesn't get a call he and Phil Jackson can go and chew the ref out and the next play Kobe gets a foul on a play with less contact. That goes for all superstar players and coaches, not just Kobe/Phil. The higher scoring is fun to watch in the playoffs but any fan of a crappy team knows how frustrating watching a game can be when a team like the Blazers, who get no respect, plays a team like the Mavericks, who have superstar flopper and complainer, Dirk, as well as a respected coach. Its just unfair when a weaker team outplays a "better" team but the referees decide the outcome which favors the superstar and/or more successful team almost all the time. This season we had 4 30 point scorers if I remember correctly. That sounds good but its awful for the game when you put certain players (guards) at an advantage and put the others (the bigs) at a disadvantage. NBA basketball is no longer a contact sport at all, players with the ball do whatever they want and players without the ball have to move out of the way and try to outscore the other team. Great fun for casual fans who would otherwise not watch basketball but its comparable to the MLB allowing steroids to be widely used in the 90's because its improving ratings. I know, steroid use is cheating but the point is the league is comprimising the integrity of the game to try to gain more money. I hate it but I'm never going to stop watching basketball because I love the game too much to just stop rooting for my favorite team (which is horrible). It seems like over the past two years I've been slowly favoring college basketball to NBA basketball and I believe all the crap that occurs in NBA games is the driving force behind it. NBA basketball is just becoming less and less of a game and more of a political league that is only focused on becoming as good as the NFL in terms of gaining money and popularity instead of focusing on being its own league and preserving the game for how it's been since the league started. -End rant</div> I enjoyed reading this post, or as you like to call it "rant". You basically summed up what people are referring to now as 'the new NBA', and I agree with everything you said 100%. BTW, nice sig.
The NBA quality league-wide is vastly improved. The fans who think the NBA is worse off are largely fans of teams that have fallen on hard times. The 4 teams that were in the Conference Championships are as good as any team from the 90s. The NBA officiating is no worse than it was when MJ was getting away with pushing off on every play and getting sent to the FT line any time he missed a shot. NBA is a business and keeping it's stars successful is part of the business.
Don't underestimate the improved quality of ownership and coaching and all-around player development. It's a big part of what separates the contenders and the lottery teams.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In an NCAA game if the ball goes to a star player they are going to try to make a play but in the NBA you give the ball to Manu, Arenas, Kobe, Dirk, or whoever and they jump into a defender and throw their hands into the air and they get the call most of the time. I'd much rather watch Adam Morrison, Len Powe, or Brandon Roy who works their ass off to get a shot and aren't determined to get to the free throw line every time they get the ball. </div> I agree, the superstar treatment has been going on for a while now and it frustrates me also......it's like it's part of the game and we've all accepted, when in reality we shouldn't.
