<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On the day in which the Rafael Araujo era ended, former GM Rob Babcock reflected back on that trade. "I had two guys ranked ahead of him -- (Andre) Iguodala and Jameer Nelson," said Babcock, who still thinks Araujo can become an effective NBA player. "But we went by position. I'm not a guy who goes by position, but I did on that occasion. The situation, the roster, what the needs were there (dictated the pick)."</div> Source Good excuse.
He spends 2 years in Toronto and never says anything interesting, out of the ordinary, or illuminating. Now he decides to speak?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">He spends 2 years in Toronto and never says anything interesting, out of the ordinary, or illuminating. Now he decides to speak?</div> Well considering that Hoffa just got traded and Babcock got fired this year, it seems like the approriate time to make such a comment. Only Nelson and Igudoala ranked ahead of Hoffa?
Nelson and Igudoala would have been great. I was mad when he selected Hoffa, I was like who the heck is this guy?
Hmm, wasn't one of our "needs" at the time a point guard? And isn't Jameer Nelson a point guard?.... his reasoning still doesn't explain why he chose the Brazilian Bust. Well at least he admitted one of his two major blunders during his time in Rapsland.... How long will it be till he admits the second one?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Well considering that Hoffa just got traded and Babcock got fired this year, it seems like the approriate time to make such a comment. Only Nelson and Igudoala ranked ahead of Hoffa?</div> I was just going to say that I'm starting to wonder where he had Okafor and Dwight Howard on his big board. Bottom line is that he said he was drafting for position, yet, point guard was the Raptors biggest need at the time (correct me if I'm wrong).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting C.K.:</div><div class="quote_post">I was just going to say that I'm starting to wonder where he had Okafor and Dwight Howard on his big board. Bottom line is that he said he was drafting for position, yet, point guard was the Raptors biggest need at the time (correct me if I'm wrong).</div> Good thing you guys aren't GM's....why would you have Howard or Okafor on your board when they are GUARUNTEED to be gone by your pick. The draft wasn't as obscure as this year. As a GM you'd look at the guys you had a chance it Nelson, Iguodoula, Hoffa.... As for need positions we needed C and PG it is way easier to find a servicable PG in free agency or trade than a decent big man. Hoffa did fit the bill, out of college he was big and strong and would rebound and do the dirty work. It just never materialised in the NBA. Babcock didn't say anything while he was working or he was fired cuz if he said it while he was still GM he would have insulted Hoffa (ruined his confidence more) and people, probably a lot of the drama queens in here would say that he was making excuses etc. After he was fired he didn't say anything cuz it would seem like he was bitter AND he is close with Colangelo (wife used to babysit BC) so why rain on his parade. The timing is good, and the rest of that article tells about what he would have done. Everyone seems to forget that he got hired 2 weeks before the draft and pretty much had to trust those ALREADY in the organization.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">Good thing you guys aren't GM's....why would you have Howard or Okafor on your board when they are GUARUNTEED to be gone by your pick. The draft wasn't as obscure as this year. As a GM you'd look at the guys you had a chance it Nelson, Iguodoula, Hoffa.... As for need positions we needed C and PG it is way easier to find a servicable PG in free agency or trade than a decent big man. Hoffa did fit the bill, out of college he was big and strong and would rebound and do the dirty work. It just never materialised in the NBA. Babcock didn't say anything while he was working or he was fired cuz if he said it while he was still GM he would have insulted Hoffa (ruined his confidence more) and people, probably a lot of the drama queens in here would say that he was making excuses etc. After he was fired he didn't say anything cuz it would seem like he was bitter AND he is close with Colangelo (wife used to babysit BC) so why rain on his parade. The timing is good, and the rest of that article tells about what he would have done. Everyone seems to forget that he got hired 2 weeks before the draft and pretty much had to trust those ALREADY in the organization.</div> Wow do I actually see a Rob Babcock fan?
^ looks like you do and you see another one right here...Babcock did a pretty good job sure he drafted Hoffa...but he had NO prep time sure he signed Alston to a bad deal...but he got an expiring contract AND superior player in Mike James from Houston straight up Sure he traded VC for what looked like nothing, i mean VC really turned it on after the trade..couldnt we of gotten more. you forget he wasnt playing 4th quarters, wasnt trying AT ALL, and was having career low (by far) numbers. Looking back at it the trade was Vince carter Jalen Rose's HUGE contract for Joey Graham 2 second round picks eric wiliams Antonio Davis' expiring contract I mean is that trade any worse than the Francis for Penny and Ariza trade that the orlando boss was praised for? he drafted CV31 when everyone thought he was crazy he got 3 projected first rounders using only 2 first round picks he organized the Jalen and Denvers pick for Antonio Davis AND the aaron williams for 2 second round picks....but was fired before he could personally pull the trigger. Anyone who go's on and on about how Babcock sucked or "thankgod he's gone" are clearly 100% products of the media that blasted him relentlessly just so they could get people to pick up their columns.
Orlando's GM didn't take back salary eaters in Mourning and Eric Williams. The Francis trade saw them get a huge expiring contract in Penny Hardaway back. We didn't get anything like that. Babcock was a mediocre GM. I mean, he had a great second year, but it barely made up for his horrible first one. And anybody who says "thankgod he's gone" is right. We now have Colangelo who is on another level.
Who cares what he say there is a reason why he was fired. BECUZ he suxs. Don't you guys notice the only two guys he named that were ahead of Hoffa on the board were the two that succeed in that range maybe he had monia, biedrins, jackson infront of iguodala or nelson because all he came out and said was that those two were ranked ahead of Hoffa but who was ranked a head of them?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jones:</div><div class="quote_post">Good thing you guys aren't GM's....why would you have Howard or Okafor on your board when they are GUARUNTEED to be gone by your pick. </div> I think you are correcting them on a technicality ... Babcock (I'm assuming) is referring to the players that were taken after our pick who were on his board only.... C.K. and whoever else you're talking about are referring (in general) to where babcock would have ranked players overall ... It's still relevant to our draft selection because depending on who he thinks should be drafted where determines whether he's taking someone at the 7th spot or not (if they drop down unexpectedly).... Carter trade was crap … by no stretch of the imagination was it worth it. We assumed salary on Mourning, Williams', and the guaranteed contracts of our first round picks. The picks we got were projected to be at least mid first round and not in fantastic draft years. In the end the best thing we have (so far) is saving one year off Jalen's contract. Now Arujo being drafted was a mistake .. but who's was it? … either way babcock has some blame in something 1) In the case Babcock had no knowledge (because he was hired late) of the draft and had to rely on his staff who made a bad decision. He needs to fire his staff and not rely on the same people the next year to help him make draft decisions. Clearly, Grunwald's draft decisions weren't always the best either and Babcock was using the same staff Gunwald was. 2) In the case he does have something to do with the pick he obviously is at fault. He come out after the draft and makes statements describing Arujo as having "great court sense" and "being able to contribute right away" neither of with are anywhere close to being true. Babcock did have a great 2nd year but just couldn't get over what the early failures did to his reputation. Having what people saw as a "crazy gm" in a "non-basketball market" was hurting us. Players were completely buying into the stereotype of Bill Walton's version of Toronto and didn't want to play here. We get BC as the GM and now the whole situation in Toronto looks on the up. Take Jay Williams for example, last year when he was on the comeback trail he more or less said "thanks" to the raptors showing interest but wasn't looking at coming to Toronto seriously. Now with a new GM and a #1 pick he's decided that Toronto would be somewhere that he'd like to play.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Orlando's GM didn't take back salary eaters in Mourning and Eric Williams. The Francis trade saw them get a huge expiring contract in Penny Hardaway back. We didn't get anything like that. Babcock was a mediocre GM. I mean, he had a great second year, but it barely made up for his horrible first one. And anybody who says "thankgod he's gone" is right. We now have Colangelo who is on another level.</div> mourning got bought out. sure it cost MLSE a couple bucks..but it didnt set the raps back. mourning basically = expiring contract eric williams is hardly expensive, and he was producing and could still produce on the right team....he didnt work out, but it could of worked better...hustle player, veteran prescence, solid defender. oh well true i'm happy with colangelo, and i agree that Babcock was mediocre...i dont think he was a genoius...i dont think he was bad though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">mourning got bought out. sure it cost MLSE a couple bucks..but it didnt set the raps back. mourning basically = expiring contract eric williams is hardly expensive, and he was producing and could still produce on the right team....he didnt work out, but it could of worked better...hustle player, veteran prescence, solid defender. oh well true i'm happy with colangelo, and i agree that Babcock was mediocre...i dont think he was a genoius...i dont think he was bad though.</div> Yea, but that trade still isn't comparable with Orlando's. The Magic made out much better than we did. Babcock does get it harsher than he should, but then again, as a13x said, he didn't exactly do his best in his first year to dispel that perception. The one thing I always disliked about Babcock's regime, and you could kind of say this about every GM we've had, is that I'd always be hoping that he wouldn't mess up his next move. With Colangelo, you come in expecting him to make a move that will benefit the team.
Anyways, I don't get how who he had ahead of Hoffa matters, it's not like he picked them, so why do we need to know he had those guys ranked ahead. Also if he had Jameer ranked ahead of him, then he could've picked on need there too since PG was a need for the team. Anyways, who cares, Hoffa is gone now anyways, and it's annoying that some people want to act like Babcock was amazing in his decisions. He made mistakes, and he also did some decently good things, but stop acting like he was amazing and supporting everything he did, no GM is perfect. The Hoffa decision was bad, the Vince trade was bad, even if it had worked out exactly as he wanted, it wasn't that amazing, Rafer's contract was poor. Charlie was a fairly good pick, the Mike James trade was good, the Jalen stuff was good, and there were some other good and bad things. He tried, and he should learn from his mistakes for the future, the end.
