<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">By that logic, Dennis Rodman should never have been a starter. Oh, but Dennis Rodman could hustle and run the court and play strong defense, you say? Guess what? So can Chuck Hayes.</div> Rodman is a 2time champion & one of the greatest rebounders of ALL TIME. Chuck Hayes wasn't even that in the CBA. Silly comparison <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly. Which is why you need to have a good defensive PF playing the majority of the minutes. And Chuck Hayes proved he's far and away our best defensive PF. Duh. I notice that you generally don't actually respond to my arguments, so I assume you'll again ignore the above point. Oh well.</div> Ur best attribute is exaggerating, so let me bring you back down to earth. Chuck Hayes is nice hustle player, solid rebounder and good defender. But BY NO MEANS should he start on any NBA team. I don't know what Rockets team you've watched, but he is NOT the best defender on the team. Mutumbo is, then Tmac, and even Howard plays better defense. If you were GM for the Rockets and started Chuck Hayes, you'd be FIRED before preseason. It sounds harsh, but trust me IT'S TRUE. There is no logical reasoning for starting Chuch Hayes. Please stop, ur scaring me
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Rodman is a 2time champion & one of the greatest rebounders of ALL TIME. Chuck Hayes wasn't even that in the CBA. Silly comparison </div> Was Dennis Rodman a 2-time champion and one of the greatest rebounders of ALL TIME after his rookie season? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ur best attribute is exaggerating, so let me bring you back down to earth. Chuck Hayes is nice hustle player, solid rebounder and good defender. But BY NO MEANS should he start on any NBA team. I don't know what Rockets team you've watched, but he is NOT the best defender on the team. Mutumbo is, then Tmac, and even Howard plays better defense. If you were GM for the Rockets and started Chuck Hayes, you'd be FIRED before preseason. It sounds harsh, but trust me IT'S TRUE. There is no logical reasoning for starting Chuch Hayes. Please stop, ur scaring me</div> I could easily make my case using mountains of evidence (I've done so in the past), but you've shown zero aptitude for logical/analytical thinking on this board. I'm not going to bother repeating it. FYI, the following was posted on the CF board regarding the breakfast event at Toyota Center with JVG: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> a couple things i assume are safe... he stressed shooting A LOT. more than anything else. hates the feeling of open jumpers being missed. someone asked what guys we can look to see improvement from and jvg was really gloating on chuck hayes. best post defender, best rebounder. VERY big on him and said he was actually practicing on the court during the breakfast. </div> Our coach apparently thinks Hayes is our best post defender and best rebounder. Again, plenty of statistical evidence to back this up as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Was Dennis Rodman a 2-time champion and one of the greatest rebounders of ALL TIME after his rookie season? </div> I'm sorry I meant 4 time champion, i forgot about the Bulls run. Rodman was a very talented rookie coming outta college. He was 6'8, strong, and could jump out the gym. Hayes is VERY undersized at 6'6, isn't much of a leaper or athlete, and very well could be back in the CBA. If ur gonna compare Chuck Hayes, compare him to Chucky Brown. But then again, Chucky was 6'8 and could actually hit a jumpshot. never mind <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I could easily make my case using mountains of evidence (I've done so in the past), but you've shown zero aptitude for logical/analytical thinking on this board. I'm not going to bother repeating it</div> I base players off facts, not popularity. I don't factor in personality of a player when speaking on basketball terms like some ppl. I just state the obvious
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry I meant 4 time champion, i forgot about the Bulls run. Rodman was a very talented rookie coming outta college. He was 6'8, strong, and could jump out the gym. Hayes is VERY undersized at 6'6, isn't much of a leaper or athlete, and very well could be back in the CBA.</div> What a retarded argument. Hayes was undrafted. So was Gilbert Arenas. So was Ben Wallace. Who cares? NBA teams f*** up sometimes. I notice that you're not actually citing performance on the court -- you know, stuff that's actually relevant. Hayes is 6'6 -- so was Charles Barkley. Hayes isn't a great leaper? -- neither was Charles Oakley. Hayes can "very well be back in the CBA." First, it's the NBDL. Second, that's not an argument, it's a prediction. And a bad one. Like I said, I could run through the data which demonstrates how good Chuck Hayes was last year ... but what's the point doing that with you? If someone else is interested, I'll show them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I base players off facts, not popularity. I don't factor in personality of a player when speaking on basketball terms like some ppl. I just state the obvious</div> You've ignored every fact I've brought up in previous threads, and you pose as though you're being objective. You didn't respond to JVG's comments about Hayes being the best post defender and rebounder on the team. And when the hell did I say anything about popularity? Last time I checked, Chuck Hayes's jersey wasn't exactly selling like hotcakes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">i thought that charles was actually 6'4"?</div> He's listed at 6'6. He has a very strong lower base, and long arms. Also very quick hands and feet, so he gets plenty of deflections/blocks. According to 82games, he grabbed 12.3% of the rebounds on the offensive end, and 22.5% of the rebounds on the defensive end, for a composite rebounding rating of 34.8 -- leading the team. For players playing at least 300 minutes, he led the team in rebounding per minute and (interestingly enough) he also led the team in steals per minute. He was fourth in blocks per minute, behind the 3 centers -- Yao, Mutombo and Swift. He was third on the team in PER (paced-adjusted per minute statistical rating), behind Yao and Tracy.
o my bad, i meant barkley, lol. and i think that chuck hayes could be a starter. like you said, rodman and barkley should have never started, but they worked hard and became something. anyone can do it, and hayes has looked pretty good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">o my bad, i meant barkley, lol. and i think that chuck hayes could be a starter. like you said, rodman and barkley should have never started, but they worked hard and became something. anyone can do it, and hayes has looked pretty good.</div> U just don't get it, and you wonder why ur comments get laughed at Again, don't compare Chuck Hayes to Charles Barkley, you just make it worse for yourself. Chuck Hayes is only good in certain aspects of the game and is not a leaper. Charles BARKLEY (in case you forgot again) will be an HOF, was an INCREDIBLE leaper for his size, had a jumpshot, and was LIGHT YEARS ahead of Chuck Hayes. If that's ur argument, give it up dude you lost. Chuck Hayes is not a damn starter. Even ppl that don't agree with me on most things, will agree on that. YOU LOSE AGAIN. Thank you for wasting my time
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">U just don't get it, and you wonder why ur comments get laughed at Again, don't compare Chuck Hayes to Charles Barkley, you just make it worse for yourself. Chuck Hayes is only good in certain aspects of the game and is not a leaper. Charles BARKLEY (in case you forgot again) will be an HOF, was an INCREDIBLE leaper for his size, had a jumpshot, and was LIGHT YEARS ahead of Chuck Hayes. If that's ur argument, give it up dude you lost. Chuck Hayes is not a damn starter. Even ppl that don't agree with me on most things, will agree on that. YOU LOSE AGAIN. Thank you for wasting my time</div> What's YOUR argument? A player does not have to have great height or even outstanding leaping ability to be a good player, if they have other physical tools like quickness, a long reach, good balance, etc.. This is obvious, if you know anything about the history of the game. So what the hell is your argument? "Chuck Hayes is not a starter! He's too small! I win, WWEEEEEEE!"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">What's YOUR argument? A player does not have to have great height or even outstanding leaping ability to be a good player, if they have other physical tools like quickness, a long reach, good balance, etc.. This is obvious, if you know anything about the history of the game. So what the hell is your argument? "Chuck Hayes is not a starter! He's too small! I win, WWEEEEEEE!"</div> I have no argument. You just isn't smart for us to start somebody like Hayes, but everybody has their opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I have no argument. You just isn't smart for us to start somebody like Hayes, but everybody has their opinion.</div> If you've got no argument, how do you back up your opinion?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">If you've got no argument, how do you back up your opinion?</div> I don't want to start Chuck Hayes. My arguement is that he isn't fast enough to gaurd the PF of the western conference and isn't strong enough as a post defender. Amazing rebounder...no doubt about that, but every other aspect of the game needs work. Not much of an offensive threat but beats Rybo by a mile.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">If you've got no argument, how do you back up your opinion?</div> So now ur in favor of starting Chuck Hayes?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't want to start Chuck Hayes. My arguement is that he isn't fast enough to gaurd the PF of the western conference and isn't strong enough as a post defender. Amazing rebounder...no doubt about that, but every other aspect of the game needs work. Not much of an offensive threat but beats Rybo by a mile.</div> That's the first time i've ever heard that Chuck Hayes isn't strong. In his years with Kentucky, his upper body strength was a big reason of why he pulled down so many rebounds(finished 7th all-time at Kentucky in rebounds) against much bigger players. I, too, don't think he's starting material, but he will definitely provide you with energy off the bench.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">So now ur in favor of starting Chuck Hayes?</div> I'm fine with Howard starting, but you haven't won anyone over with your "lack of an argument". No one's out to get you, chill out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm fine with Howard starting, but you haven't won anyone over with your "lack of an argument". No one's out to get you, chill out.</div> Starting Chuck Hayes is potentially the worst move in franchise history, I know this and you know it as well.
WE NEED DEPTH AND ENERGY OFF THE BENCH. KEEP HOWARD active so he doesn't lose the game swagger. Either that or hell break a hip and retire so more cap space.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Starting Chuck Hayes is potentially the worst move in franchise history, I know this and you know it as well.</div> Is it worse than starting Oscar Torres? Don't think so. Starting Hayes won't be as bad as it seems. He's not ready right now with his foul troubles, but I'm willing to give him a start or two early on or late in the season. How bad would it hurt us? If he doesn't do well in the first six minutes, fine, bench him and you still got Howard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it worse than starting Oscar Torres? Don't think so. Starting Hayes won't be as bad as it seems. He's not ready right now with his foul troubles, but I'm willing to give him a start or two early on or late in the season. How bad would it hurt us? If he doesn't do well in the first six minutes, fine, bench him and you still got Howard.</div> By the time the 6 minutes are up, we'll be down by 15. We've been undersized for too long, it's not a winning formula. Starting a 6'6 PF is a slap in the face too all Rocket fans across the world.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">By the time the 6 minutes are up, we'll be down by 15. We've been undersized for too long, it's not a winning formula. Starting a 6'6 PF is a slap in the face too all Rocket fans across the world.</div> I wouldn't exxagerate that much. It is true we are undersized incredibly, but if we are up against teams like Miami then I say start CHuck Hayes. Give him a chance, but if he doesn't do what is needed than bench him. The burden is set and it is on every player on this team. Tmac has to now realize he won't have a protege to mold in Rudy Gay and he has to win NOW!. This might be Yao Ming's last chance becuase withoout solid players around him he won't win. Every other starter and bench player has to increase production becuase it seems like every team is getting better besides us.
