Are Warriors the Team that Promised Shelden Williams?

As far as I know Shelden Williams has worked out for (from DraftExpress):
7. Celtics
9. Warriors
10. Supersonics
12. Hornets
14. Jazz

and then he shutdown his workouts. There was rumor the Atlanta Hawks made him a promise. They have the #5 pick, but the Hawks still have workouts scheduled: http://www.draftexpress.com/workout.php?sort=0&pid=0&tid=11

In fact all the other top 10 teams have further workouts scheduled except the Warriors. The Rockets have one left and they worked out Cedric Simmons and Alexander Johnson on June 14th several days after Shelden Williams shutdown his workouts.

That only leaves the Warriors who have no workouts scheduled: http://www.draftexpress.com/workout.php?sort=0&pid=0&tid=26

Shelden Williams can play some center and some power forward at the NBA level. He's got a back to the basket game, can play interior D and block shots, rebound, and is really strong. So if the Warriors did promise him he would be a solid pick at #9.

 

This would be a mistake on the Warriors part if this is the case. First of all, what happens if someone before us pick him and we have not looked at enough other players? I personally dont think he will be any better than Foyle...

 

Not saying Williams is the right pick at #9, but he is definitely better than Foyle. Of course, that is not fair because most of the league's centers are in fact better than Foyle. But look at Sheldon first from everything he's shown in the last three years... He's got the ability to score with either hand on either side of the post (Foyle is right-hand dependent all these years and look at what he does with that right hand; he misses easy layups, not to mention uncontested dunks).

Second, Sheldon Williams has some inside low post footwork (Foyle has no footwork and look at how many times he puts the ball on the floor when he doesn't have to; it's just ugly, extremely mechanical and painful to watch)

Sheldon Williams has a high enough basketball I.Q. to play halfcourt and enough top speed to run the floor if needed and gets off his feet pretty quickly and decently high for his weight (Foyle can barely run and he's got low basketball I.Q. and he can barely jump)

Sheldon Williams has good hands (Foyle couldn't even catch a cold)

Sheldon Williams is a better overall defender (Arguable because we haven't seen Sheldon Williams play in the NBA, but he is no doubt more saavy with the way he plays man-to-man in the post. What else does Foyle do besides try to block everything? There's no "pulling the seat out" or ball thefts from Foyle or the sorts of things we've seen excellent post D guys like Clif Robinson/Dale Davis/Kevin Garnett/Tim Duncan or Kurt Thomas do. It seems like half the time he bats away the shots to the other team) Williams is a good defensive fundamentals type of guy. Plus at 250, he's probably stronger than Foyle at his 270 lbs because he's got excellent leg strength. He can also defend the pick and roll a lot better because he's got good recovery time (like Biedrins or Ellis when getting bumped, only the Landlord probably won't get bumped as much because he's got muscles).

Sheldon Williams = coachable. (Look at how many times Monty was screaming at Foyle and eventually just gave up. Could have played Biedrins a little more but its not like he was nba ready either and he's got some bball understanding problems as well)

Sheldon Williams = better free throw shooter than most of our guards.

Sheldon came from Duke, Foyle came from Colgate. Enough said.

He's a short guy for a big position, but he's a solid athlete, great wingspan, good on offense for putbacks, easy lay-ins, catching it and throwing it back out. The knock on him is his court awareness and creativity isn't good, but he understands set plays so he can nail the passer on que if that's the play. As some articles say Sheldon Williams is to defense as Ike is to offense. Could be some nice competition between the two and if they learn from each other sort of like Jrich vs. Pietrus on offense vs. defense.

One more thing: getting a big guy that can use either hand equally well is a technical skill plus. All the best big men can do this.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as I know Shelden Williams has worked out for (from DraftExpress):
7. Celtics
9. Warriors
10. Supersonics
12. Hornets
14. Jazz

and then he shutdown his workouts. There was rumor the Atlanta Hawks made him a promise. They have the #5 pick, but the Hawks still have workouts scheduled: http://www.draftexpress.com/workout.php?sort=0&pid=0&tid=11

In fact all the other top 10 teams have further workouts scheduled except the Warriors. The Rockets have one left and they worked out Cedric Simmons and Alexander Johnson on June 14th several days after Shelden Williams shutdown his workouts.

That only leaves the Warriors who have no workouts scheduled: http://www.draftexpress.com/workout.php?sort=0&pid=0&tid=26

Shelden Williams can play some center and some power forward at the NBA level. He's got a back to the basket game, can play interior D and block shots, rebound, and is really strong. So if the Warriors did promise him he would be a solid pick at #9.</div>

Dude, JV, I was about to post something like this until the site was down due to moving servers.

I think first of all, this would be kind of lame to promise The Landlord a pick when Patrick O'Bryant or Brewer could fall (we need a big, bulky center or a fundamentally sound and athletic small forward with upside, badly).

I wonder what this means?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, JV, I was about to post something like this until the site was down due to moving servers.

I think first of all, this would be kind of lame to promise The Landlord a pick when Patrick O'Bryant or Brewer could fall (we need a big, bulky center or a fundamentally sound and athletic small forward with upside, badly).

I wonder what this means?</div>

Shelden measured out with a standing reach of 8-8 and that was very disappointing for a PF and especially for a C. With that, it would be lame to "promise" somebody when they aren't likely to picked above you. OTOH this wasn't the case with Biedrins, whom Mullin promised, because AB was projected all over the board and Philly was rumored to want him two picks above the Warriors.

The lack of workouts for the Warriors is a change from last year where guys were invited back for workouts. This year the workouts are either not held here, cut short, held in secret or TBA (but time is running out!).

It could also mean a TRADE is in place.

Of course, Mullin and staff ARE watching workouts elsewhere such as Portland, but why wouldn't they want to schedule their own workouts?

As for Shelden, he could be going to Seattle (they haven't got any more high picks scheduled) or Atlanta is really going to pick him at #5 as rumored. Shelden still could be picked by the Warriors, too.

 

I really don't know about S. Williams. I mean, if we don't have Diogu, I wouldn't mind too much of drafting him. But, just based on the report, he is bit bigger and longer than Diogu, probably bit stronger and less skilled than Diogu. Other than that, aren't we basically watching a Diogu clone? And, it's not like we are fine with other positions either. We really need center and SF, and unless we are sure that Williams will definitely be better than Diogu, I don't think drafting Williams are a good idea.

Also, I hope it's not Warriors for just sake of not letting other GMs know what we are doing. Two years ago, everybody knew we would draft Biedrins (good thing no other teams ahead of us wanted Biedrins), and many people basically guessed that we would draft Diogu last year too. Hope Mullin will hide our pick better this year. And, do we plan to work out some SF anytime soon?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not saying Williams is the right pick at #9, but he is definitely better than Foyle. Of course, that is not fair because most of the league's centers are in fact better than Foyle. But look at Sheldon first from everything he's shown in the last three years... He's got the ability to score with either hand on either side of the post (Foyle is right-hand dependent all these years and look at what he does with that right hand; he misses easy layups, not to mention uncontested dunks).</div>

I think people forget that these guys are college players. Foyle may not be able to play offense, but I don't think this kid is even in Foyle's league. I just don't see him competing in the NBA at all. Ike was twice the talent in college IMO and he's struggling to find time on the floor

 

...not in Foyle's league? Maybe not quite Ben Wallace,but I saw a lot of Sheldon W and the guy has a bunch of SKILLS,along with good tools. Sheldon was after all,NCAA DEFENSIVE player of the year...and the consensus All America C. Put his Stat sheet next to Aldridges and it's no contest-Sheldon's ahead in every category.

Sheldon-Ike actually,they have some things in common but there are differences. Ike has rare agility for his size,is a real creative scorer. Sheldon is more classic technique,uses his strength,scores real well in a crowd. Sheldon has somewhat better knack as a rebounder,but Ike jumps better. Sheldon is textbook on D. Not many bigs in the NBA have his timing,positioning,etc.

 

Another good thing about Sheldon Williams is that he has all-around defense for a basketball player. Can't say that about many of our Warriors players. They either do one aspect of defense really well or none well at all. Take for instance Foyle in the post. He is not a good post defender at all. Great weakside shotblocker and excellent timing though, but that is about it. Sheldon Williams has almost everything you could ask for in terms of guarding the post and getting opponents off balance, blocking shots weakside using either hand, transition D he is decent, he can play the passing lanes and deny entry passes, he does the dirty work by the textbook. He was so strong in college that he can uproot most post players trying to post up. Very good defender at the college level, but not sure what he can do at the nba level at center. His shotblock numbers will probably go down like they did with Okafor and Michael Sweetney.

If we picked Sheldon we'd probably be getting only a defensive role player with some honest offense, rather than our chance at an all-around star. I guess Mullin has to figure out: do we want to win now or do we want to keep drafting these projects that might turn out to be streaky, inconsistent players with only potential on their side? Do we go for a Reece Gaines or do we go for a Pietrus? Do we go for a Biedrins or do we go for an Ike?

Tough call because I can't imagine whoever we draft offering a "vet-like" presence or immediate impact in terms of skill. Few guys are gifted mentally, skill wise, leadership wise and physically like Lebron James or D-wade.

 

I've been thinking about a possible trade involving the Supersonics or the Jazz. They've got to be the teams most interested in upgrading power forward because the Sonics may not re-sign Wilcox and I don't know about Nick Collison's injury problems. Also, the Jazz have Carlos Boozer injured and not as as good on defense as he used to be when he was with Cleveland.

I don't really see any players that could help us out from those two teams, except for Rashard Lewis who could opt out in 07-08. I'd stay away from Boozer's hideous contract at all costs. Kirilenko also has a lame contract buthe's a great defensive guy who can score some. Mehmet Okur is basically Murphy with some low post game and better shotblocking skills.

Or maybe this whole thing is a smoke screen and we're moving up involving either Pietrus or Murphy or one of those guys in a trade?

Or what if the scenario is to dump a player for expiring deals/or acquire new guy via sign and trade, packaged with Sheldon Williams or whatever they want at the #9? Oh god I hope we can get rid of the Foyle/Fisher deals with a #9 and not much else. That'd be sweet.

This is getting interesting. It's fun to think about.

 

I just mean that Shelden won't be able to score in the NBA, and At least Foyle plays defense well. Shelden won't be able to do that in the pros either. Just my opinion, he's not built right for this league, especially with how athletic big men are getting. If Williams could play the 5 it'd be one thing, but there's no way he can in the NBA. I think he'd dominate in the Euroleagues, but that's his ceiling.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">I just mean that Shelden won't be able to score in the NBA, and At least Foyle plays defense well. Shelden won't be able to do that in the pros either. Just my opinion, he's not built right for this league, especially with how athletic big men are getting. If Williams could play the 5 it'd be one thing, but there's no way he can in the NBA. I think he'd dominate in the Euroleagues, but that's his ceiling.</div>

No Way? He was the freakin' NCAA D player of the Year,is 6-9 and strong as an ox. He scored a nice 18+ in the ACC. LOOK IT UP...Aldridge,Thomas,Gay...below 18 per. Yeah he may not be another Moses Malone-because he's an inch shorter. The guy is smart,skilled consistant,obviously learns well. Any Foyle comparison is just a random guess,I saw Sheldon at least 10-15 games,never ONCE was I thinking "just like Foyle"...You HAVE seen him play? You are not just going by NBA Draft-net's notes?

 

I have to agree with REREM that Sheldon Williams is severely underrated. The guy has lots of skills, is very strong and decently coordinated, and played for a great college program (just don't draft their pureshooting jumpshooters lol). Also nbadraft.net has been missing the mark for the last few years on certain draft prospects, but I won't accuse anyone here of being biased because of them.

But I also can see why CohanHater thinks that Sheldon Williams might have some severely limited upside. The guy plays like a center but he won't grow any more or get quicker and he will mostly likely be a defensive/garbage buckets guy (sort of like Foyle's role, only Sheldon has way more dimensions on defense and better hands and footwork and brains for the game). Although Sheldon's got some really good skills for a big guy, his college shotblock numbers and all of his brute force post type play might not transfer over when it comes to the NBA at center. His offense/defense might be even more limited at power forward where he lacks the ability to drive and shoot longer distances. (We could argue at least Diogu can get away with playing small because he has the ballhandling, more agile footwork to confuse opponents, longer arms, can block shots, rebound, and he also passes well creatively). Murphy can also drive, shoot, but the problem is he doesn't play defense or have the instincts to pass much or score inside, so that was the reason Mullin got Diogu. I gues aside from Diogu/Murphy, I think Sheldon could work for us because he's very coachable, is unselfish, can score but doesn't look to score, and he's a consumate player for when you have a high volume shooting backcourt. He's an enforcer that looks to own the paint and has a terrific motor.

So I can definitely see what CohanHater is seeing if we're getting a tweener type center. I think we need more of a bigger center type guy that can be a threat in the post, but the problem is other top prospects like Splitter and POB probably aren't these guys we're looking for. Especially, if we're trying to get polished guys who can play now and for the future, rather than hardly ever or with an expensive buyout. I mean rebounds and shotblocks are nice, but so are free throws (which Sheldon can make), good recovery time, smarts, ability to score on either side of the post, footwork, toughness and strength. If Sheldon was 6'11 at his current athleticism he'd be a lock for a top 3, maybe even 1.

The warriors also have to decide if they're focussing on Biedrins being the big man project and if we're prepared to take another one on and focus some attention on him instead of Biedrins. I think we should develop fewer projects and add more valuable pieces that will make those projects better or learn faster while also helping the team.

I can't help but be intrigued by a guy like Patrick O'Bryant or Tiago Splitter, but I'm afraid that either won't be sure things in the near future. Sheldon Williams may not have star power or the ability to play his real position of center and that's the main thing that scares me. Not his athleticism or anything else. He's a great college player, not sure he has the right body to play bigger than he is. But if he can play center, I think he'd be a no-brainer pick for a team needing some big man direction, which is us. I would not be opposed to picking him because a lot of teams could use him. Especially if he can do what guys like Udonis Haslem are doing or maybe a "little bit less athletic or less in-your-face persona" Emeka Okafor. But don't forget, Sheldon can actually shoot decent free throws now.

I would still stick with either Brewer or POB, but I'm mostly thinking "team needs" with athleticism and some good upside with basic current skill level. Still, I think acquiring Sheldon Williams would help us and offer us a nice trade piece as well. I tell everyone that it's hard to get a good read on a lot of these guys in the draft so I hope Mullin has a good gut instinct of who to pick or what kind of trade we should do...

 

Strong as an ox against college players, but he won't be able to guard NBA centers. And the style of 4's in the west... he doesn't have a chance keeping up with them either. We'll see though. Only time will tell. And there are a lot of players that have scored in bigtime programs that haven't ammounted to anything in the pros. Especially bigmen. Scoreless Williamson jumps to mind right away. Just because a kid was a top defender in college it doesn't mean that it will translate to the pros. Competition is longer, bigger, stronger, and faster. Especially considering that the Warriors already Ike, who I believe is a much better talent than Williams. I'd rather the team takes Splitter personally if they're going to go big. The Warriors should be looking at the best 3 in the draft, the problem is that there are no 3's in this draft that can come in and play big minutes now either.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">
Just a side note about his offensive game, from what I saw, it didn't look like he had much of a post game that would translate to the NBA but I could be totally wrong. When Carlos Boozer came out no one expected him to have such an advanced post game, it could be the same thing with Shelden. Even if he doesn't have an NBA ready post game like Ike, hes a hard worker and a guy who likes to play inside so he'll work on that and maybe one day he will be a good post scorer. Right now, I'd expect him to just be a good finisher around the rim, not necessarily a scoring option but I tihnk he's got the work ethic and skills such as ability to score with both hands, good touch, etc to become a good post scorer.</div>

Nah, dude you are right. Sheldon's offensive game is probably as good as Emeka Okafor or maybe like Dampier. I mean both have the footwork to score, but its not really what they do best. They play defense, clean up the glass, score on putbacks, demonstrate footwork to go to the post and can score with either hand if need be. Like for a real post threat I consider Zach Randolph or Elton Brand dominating because they spin around like whirling dervishes and clear out space with their hip checks and shoulders. Tim Duncan is another good example of this. Just terrific examples of dominant post threats using fundamentals, good pump fakes, their terrific size and their dancer's feet to move around and clear out space (without losing the ball).

A guy like Sheldon Williams is just a real complete big man and is probably more athletic and smooth than guys give him credit for. He shoots free throws decently too. But the "stiffness" and "mechanical" movements some guys criticize him for is probably a description of that lack of quickness when he goes into the post. I didn't think he was that bad though. He's just not as agile as Brand/Randolph or even Ike when operating in the pivot. He does the simple basic post moves and there's only really like 4 of them. If we're talking spin moves, he's okay but I doubt he's that great... The bottom line is most big men in this league don't posess much footwork at all and that destroys their usefulness on offense unless they are scoring on the most basic of basic plays. Guys are either coordinated enough to do it so they don't step on people's feet or so they don't fall over their own and lose the ball.

P.S. I don't think Boozer's post game is that advanced is it? He's got a few drop step moves, but nothing like the wheel and deal moves some of these power forwards are showing. If anyone is a fan of low post footwork watch Duncan, Brand. They can do a variety of things and Duncan isn't really all that athletic or that quick and Brand is really short. It's just having good coordination and footwork and being really strong.

 

Okay first of all don't get biased by nbadraft.net, because they get a lot of prospect reads just plain wrong IMO. But Emeka's description as a guy with good footwork and post moves can get labeled as "mechanical" because he just doesn't move his feet as fast as other players can.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/emeka_okafor.asp

The fact of the matter is the dude can still score on a mismatch if you give him the ball. Just don't ask him to do what Ike, Zach Randolph, Chris Bosh, Tim Duncan and Brand do when it comes to all that spinning stuff they do without getting dizzy, off balance or feet tangled up with another player.

Post moves are kind of hard actually, but there's not that many moves involved and its mostly about creating separation between you and the other player, using the pivot foot alot, and selling a lot of pumpfakes and being able to control the ball with the back facing the basket. Oh yeah, that's why scoring with either hand is so important.

Here's some good examples but keep in mind Murphy is not a post player or a guy that uses his right hand much, but it was a damn good move he did on guard Juan Dixon. Didn't look slow either.

http://www.gswpete.com/2005/10_at_por/tm_post.avi

Then here's Ike going up against skinny Chris Bosh.

http://www.gswpete.com/2005/15_vs_tor/ike_bosh.avi

If anyone has clips of Shareef Abdur Rahim he's an excellent post player. He "feels" a player using his back and then knows which shoulder to turn and also uses the variety of pump fakes and makes like he's going to drive on somebody. Too bad the guy is a tweener with defensive problems.

 

Yeah I agree with ya, Run. Nice fair assessment Thx for the vid clip too.

 

I actually think Sheldon could be about equal to Zach R on offense. The deal is he's way up there in skills,effort,consistancy. He's not lacking toughness either. At 9 you can't expect Duncan-JG-Brand,but you also don't want a guy unable to get on the court. Sheldon is coachable-just already more skilled than what Monty could make a raw player.

I'm not saying Sheldon can stop Duncan or Shaq..but what Centers are the big threat? The guy can handle..even dominate a lot of them. There are a lot of guys 6-0 to 6-10 who drive the lane. The Landlord tended to turn that idea into a low % option.

I'd figure that Ike,Andy,Sheldon,Murph,and maybe Taft just gives us a good pool for the 4/5. We run,and depth is our friend,we run and a lumbering Zilgauskas-Ostertag on the other team is no hassle..

Strength-effort-technique are what makes an inside scorer. Sheldon could have scored 20-25 every game but they had Reddick for the main scorer. I think Sheldon is top 5 quality and if available at 9...a real good pick. Long run-O'Bryant CAN be special..more likely..can be useful. He is 7-0 and young,he has some bulk so you don't need to factor that you trade off vertical hops,quickness when you add 20 lbs. As a 7 footer..O'Bryant would have a clearcut role ahead.

Then there is the Monty factor Ahab Mullin is lashing himself to that doomed whale,and what do you think Monty would do with O'Bryant? Among the possible answers are 1- Nothing at all and 2- Screw him up totally.

Those also apply to guys like Rondo or Carney who need some makeover,as well as a raw kid like Tyrus.