Wow great find Mtran. Like seriously great find, I've never seen that angle. hmm i guess he did foul him. All though dirk i guess hit him, idk just with a game that close. It's hard to end it with that call. But really Great find. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting michiganave17:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ yeah stupid huh LOL</div> As for you, dude you need to shutup. How you going to say Gator is stupid. He's one of the best posters at this damn board, not only is it uneccesary to call him stupid. But dude...you only make posts that are a single sentence long. At least he's contributing his opinions on the topic. Again Mtran terrific find. And off to Dallas for Game 6!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Terry should have been on the line too then at the end of regulation. I was extremely happy they didn't call that foul because the refs would take the game out of the players hands(which ended up happening the other side) I just don't understand how you can call one ticky tack foul when the game is on the line after avoiding a ticky tack foul when the game was on the line. No one ever calls ticky tack fouls there, just obvious fouls where there is a lot of contact, which certainly didn't happen. Actually according to the rulebook that was a backcourt, they talked about it during SportsCenter. He didn't have both feet planted on Dallas's side of the court before he caught it, which you have to have.</div> I watched the replay of the JT's final shot and couldnt see if he was fouled. The picture quality sucked (online) do you have a clean, decent-res picture of the foul? The way I saw it, Wade was actually in mid-air when he caught the pass and landed in the backcourt. It appears he was in the backcourt when he caught the pass. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is. I read the NBA rules somewhere that this use to be illegal but they changed it a few seasons back. I'll have to look it up again.
ok im sorry to keep on bringing this up. But when you watch the tape. Do you honestly think Dirk pushed him? Linkhttp://nelsok.com/images/72102485.gif
I'm a somewhat heat fan and from the clip and seeing the pictures from all angles. The picture of Dirk putting his hand on Wade, seems like a foul, but in the replay it wasn't a shove just a grazing contact. You can see Wade's momentum is totally unaffected by it. Although I think the ref might have called it because he saw Dirk hit Wade on the back. I wouldn't call it a foul though, because I don't think it affected Wade. Harris may have fouled him though, I would be leaning towards it was not a foul though. I think Wade had no control over the ball and missed the shot because it was a difficult circus shot. I also think the Josh Howard foul was a bad call. Anyway the game is over, the officials try their best.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade got more freethrows than the entire Mavericks team. think about that for a second. no, no...dont respond. not yet. i just want you to run that in your head for a good few seconds. Wade (as in ONE player) took more free throws than the ENTIRE mavericks team (like 10 players). now you tell me, you realllly think that's fair? You think Dirk is an ass for being angry about it? the call at the end was not abysmal in and of itself other than the fact that in 99% of games refs wont make that call at the end of the game like that. Whats worse was the fact that it was reflective of calls they made the entire game, but only for one of the two teams. Its not quite as bad as the calls Kobe has gotten in the playoffs throughout his career but its still something youd rather not see. The NBA would probably prefer to see the heat win. If I'm David Stern Im figuring, "hey, Dallas is pretty fun to watch but they're gonna have plenty more chances to win it all in the next few years. With a roster full of aging players with big contracts, this could be Miami's only chance. It would be benefitial for the league to see Wade get a ring now while he has the chance. It will make the increasing hype surrounding him seem more legitamate and set up the Wade/Lebron rivalry to take on epic proportions for years to come". Im not saying theyre going to or that they even could rig this series but we all know that the league will favor certain teams and that those teams will get certain calls that the other team wont get. You probably wont see such a ref bias in game 6 just because when the finals goes 7 games its good for everybody so the refs will probably call it pretty evenly which gives the Mavs the edge. If game 7 comes down to the last couple minutes though it could be a little scary to see what the refs do with their whistles. Its a tough position for them because you cant just let them hammer the hell out of each other. At SOME point you have to call the foul but it will be interesting to see what point that is</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Stop hating on Wade, people just need to learn to suck it up for real. It was a loss, that could've gone either ways. All I have left to say is Wade is the best basketball player I've ever witnessed with my eyes. (I'm only 17).</div> read the above post closely and tell me where i hated on wade. He took over that game. He's one of the best in the game today. Im a fan of Wade. I might even take him over Lebron because he plays both ends of the court whereas Lebron (usually)only plays one side. u cant get much further from hating than that. (btw. come on now! youre 17? born in 1989? Even when you were a little kid didn't you catch some of Jordan in the finals against the Sonics or teh Jazz?) <div class="quote_poster">Quoting michiganave17:</div><div class="quote_post">LOL!</div> Laugh all you want. It was a foul. Im not gonna deny that. I know it sounds weird to say that they shouldnt always call a foul when there is one but youve watched basketball. Youve watched more than just this finals series (i hope). Even if you or any other Wade/Heat fan won't admit it, you know that officials have a way of getting into certain rythms and have certain tendendancies for how they call things. Refs NEVER call every foul that occurs in everyy game. Theres probably a foul on at least every other possession. Sometimes they get into stretches where they call a lot of fouls, and sometimes they get into stretches where they just let em play. The latter is how they do things traditionally at the end of games. At any rate, the important thing for the refs is not whether they blow the whistle or not but whether they treat both teams equally and that absolutly did not happen in this game. I don't mean to take anything away from Wade and his incredible performance. I really don't. Wade was unbelievable. It was a great game and he was the star of it. However the game was so good that it shouldnt have ended on a foul call unless it was something that at LEAST RESEMBLED a hard foul. The fact is it was a ticky tacky foul that most likely would not have been called if Wade was not a rising superstar. basically all Im saying is that if it was the other way around and this had happened with Wade or Kobe or the Bulls coming out on the short end of it, you would be absolutly livid. Youd think it was bullplop and people on the other side would be laughing at you telling you to stop crying. know what I mean?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MTran:</div><div class="quote_post">I watched the replay of the JT's final shot and couldnt see if he was fouled. The picture quality sucked (online) do you have a clean, decent-res picture of the foul? The way I saw it, Wade was actually in mid-air when he caught the pass and landed in the backcourt. It appears he was in the backcourt when he caught the pass. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is. I read the NBA rules somewhere that this use to be illegal but they changed it a few seasons back. I'll have to look it up again.</div> No I can't find anything about it to be honest with you. I'm not really good at finding stuff like that. I remember watching it with my friend and we both thought Wade hit him in the elbow. Well from what they said on SportsCenter they said that 2 feet have to be firmly in the backcourt BEFORE he catches it. (I haven't seen a clip since then, so I don't really know if it was or not, but the analysts were saying that it was a backcourt)
Why was everyone bitching about the foul that sent Wade to foul line? They called a foul on the wrong player, big whoop, their was still a foul when Harris hit Wade's arm, that's why his shot came nowhere close. If it was a little tap, would Wade's shot look out of control like that?
Moving on from the foul and timeout there's been a lot of great adjustments by Pat Riley in the series. For starters he's recognized Antoine Walker is a liability in crunch time and has benched him down the stretch of Game 3 and Game 5. James Posey has been giving Riley the defensive energy this team needed. With Haslem and Posey both defending Dirk, they've been able to disrupt Dirk's rhythm by giving him two different looks. The Mavs defense seems confused the last 3 games. They can't figure out who they want to contain Shaq? or Wade? Despite Wade hitting shot after shot last night, Avery refused to double him and get the ball out his hands. Instead he left Adrian Griffin in isolation when Wade hit the bank shot to send it into OT. Something else I couldn't figure out was why the Mavs went to Hack a Shaq, but didn't continue doing it until the 2 minute mark? The first two times Shaq missed his free throws and the Mavs built a 4 point lead. Then the Mavs decided not to foul Shaq, and it lead to a Gary Payton 3 pointer. This cut the Mavs lead back to 1. Why not foul Shaq again and force him to make free throws? At most he probably makes 1, but 1 is a lot better than giving up a 3 pointer by Payton. After making the mistake of not hacking Shaq, and getting burned by a 3, you'd think Avery would tell his team to definitely foul Shaq the next time Miami got the ball. Once again Dallas didn't foul Shaq and Miami scored again. It was a bizzare coaching sequence by Avery Johnson. I think Dirk Nowitzki has to step up in the next two games. He's played decent, but he needs to be playing spectacular like he did in the Phoenix series. Avery needs to get Dirk involved in the game earlier by running some plays for him and getting Dirk into a rhythm. Miami is getting away with single coverage on Dirk, and it's forcing the team to shoot more from the perimeter than taking it to the hoop.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Moving on from the foul and timeout there's been a lot of great adjustments by Pat Riley in the series. For starters he's recognized Antoine Walker is a liability in crunch time and has benched him down the stretch of Game 3 and Game 5. James Posey has been giving Riley the defensive energy this team needed. With Haslem and Posey both defending Dirk, they've been able to disrupt Dirk's rhythm by giving him two different looks. The Mavs defense seems confused the last 3 games. They can't figure out who they want to contain Shaq? or Wade? Despite Wade hitting shot after shot last night, Avery refused to double him and get the ball out his hands. Instead he left Adrian Griffin in isolation when Wade hit the bank shot to send it into OT. Something else I couldn't figure out was why the Mavs went to Hack a Shaq, but didn't continue doing it until the 2 minute mark? The first two times Shaq missed his free throws and the Mavs built a 4 point lead. Then the Mavs decided not to foul Shaq, and it lead to a Gary Payton 3 pointer. This cut the Mavs lead back to 1. Why not foul Shaq again and force him to make free throws? At most he probably makes 1, but 1 is a lot better than giving up a 3 pointer by Payton. After making the mistake of not hacking Shaq, and getting burned by a 3, you'd think Avery would tell his team to definitely foul Shaq the next time Miami got the ball. Once again Dallas didn't foul Shaq and Miami scored again. It was a bizzare coaching sequence by Avery Johnson. I think Dirk Nowitzki has to step up in the next two games. He's played decent, but he needs to be playing spectacular like he did in the Phoenix series. Avery needs to get Dirk involved in the game earlier by running some plays for him and getting Dirk into a rhythm. Miami is getting away with single coverage on Dirk, and it's forcing the team to shoot more from the perimeter than taking it to the hoop.</div> Great point on Riley finally realizing that Posey is better than Walker in those situations. They do try and get Dirk invlolved early and run a two man game with him and Terry. Haslem has played DPOY kind of defense on him IMO and has really been a key player for us down the stretch. They can only use Hack-a-Shaq until there are two minutes remaining because then it would end up being 1 shot and the ball for Miami.
Yea I think Haslem and Posey have been doing a good job on Dirk. Even though 20 ppg is still pretty good. Jason Williams was shooting the 3 nicely in game 5. All the Mav's centers were getting into foul trouble pretty quickly. and Terry was on fire, couldn't leave that guy open.
Yes I realize the Hack a Shaq rule, but when the Mavs first resorted to it there was 4 minutes left in the game. They could have done it at least two more times during that 4 minute to 2 minute period of the game, but decided not to. I'm just trying to figure out why they didn't stick with it because Shaq wasn't even close on his free throws. Running the two man game with Terry isn't working, because Miami is willing to let Terry take those shots. Dallas needs to run Dirk off double screens or get him more touches in the post. I really think Dallas needs to get back to small ball and play with a 3 guard lineup with Dirk playing the 5. Put Terry, Harris, Stackhouse, Howard, and Dirk on the court and force Miami to match up with you. Let Shaq carry the load on offense and just push the tempo all game long. Wearing Shaq out early with other Heat players not taking shots, will make it hard for them to hit shots later in the game. I doubt Dallas tries it now, since one loss and it's over, but they should have tried something different in Game 4.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">No I can't find anything about it to be honest with you. I'm not really good at finding stuff like that. I remember watching it with my friend and we both thought Wade hit him in the elbow. Well from what they said on SportsCenter they said that 2 feet have to be firmly in the backcourt BEFORE he catches it. (I haven't seen a clip since then, so I don't really know if it was or not, but the analysts were saying that it was a backcourt)</div> From what I saw, Wade came close, but he did not touch Terry on that shot, it was avtually quite amazing body control. What's more, if Terry had been touched on the elbow, don't you think he might have said or done something instead of walking calmly back to the huddle. From what I heard by the guys on NBATV, it was not a back-court violation because of the rule change 2 years ago. Bottom line: The foul(s) might not have been very hard, but when you break it down, he was fouled 3 times. One was the block on Harris sticking out his knee. Two was Harris hitting him on the arm. Three was Nowitzki's hand on his back. Now Wade is a strong guy capable of making impossible shots, and he's right up there with Lebron on being able to finish 3pt plays. Do you think he would have missed the shot THAT badly if he were not fouled? C'mon...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">From what I saw, Wade came close, but he did not touch Terry on that shot, it was avtually quite amazing body control. What's more, if Terry had been touched on the elbow, don't you think he might have said or done something instead of walking calmly back to the huddle.</div> No, because he's used to no calls in situations like that and like you said it was only a touch. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve:</div><div class="quote_post"> From what I heard by the guys on NBATV, it was not a back-court violation because of the rule change 2 years ago. Bottom line: The foul(s) might not have been very hard, but when you break it down, he was fouled 3 times. One was the block on Harris sticking out his knee. Two was Harris hitting him on the arm. Three was Nowitzki's hand on his back. Now Wade is a strong guy capable of making impossible shots, and he's right up there with Lebron on being able to finish 3pt plays. Do you think he would have missed the shot THAT badly if he were not fouled? C'mon...</div> Eh, I still think it was a ticky tack foul. (Yes I believe it was a foul) Did Harris's knee ever touch Wade though? That was a great pic of Dirk's hand on the back, I hadn't seen that yet. I will agree with you about there was 2 fouls, but I don't think Harris grabbed the arm like you guys think. His palm isn't on the elbow in that picture and I'm not too sure on the Dirk hand on the back, but it didn't look like it really affected his momentum. I do find it hard to believe someone of Wade's caliber would miss a shot that badly, but it looked like the ball was starting to come loose. Maybe he just didn't have a good grip on the ball when he was going up? Who knows, no one knows other than Dirk, Harris and Wade. WIth the way that Dirk reacted I really don't think he fouled Wade. I know he's not just going to be calm about it or anything, but he was going absolutely crazy. Does anyone have the video of the entire play so that I can rewatch it again. I'm just relying on my memory(which isn't good) and original thoughts. I didn't even think of backcourt violation or was really looking at Harris, since the foul call was on Dirk.
Im telling you its Karma Rockets got screwed in game 5 last year w/ Finley being out of bounds, and now the officiating doesn't go your way 1 year later. It tastes so sweet. Difference, we had a real argument, they don't. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">No, because he's used to no calls in situations like that and like you said it was only a touch. </div> OMG you are a hypocrite. When Nowiztki was fouled in game 3 by Haslem (and missed one free throw) why didn't you get pissed off at the officiating, they could have let it play out. Haslem hit him on the shoulder, but if Dirk wasn't such a softy he would have still got it to go in (I am exaggerating to prove a point). I see that as the same thing, but Wade WAS SHOVED BY DIRK and Harris grabbed/pulled down on his fore arm. 2 fouls they could have called. One official WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF WADE and saw Harris grab his arm, but didn't want to call the ticky tack foul...one sided my ass...the official behind saw Dirk sneakily shove Wade. You see Dirks hand fly up after pushin him to try to avoid the call, but it was their. STOP WHINING ABOUT THAT CALL. I have seen Dirk get way more biased star treatment then that. Blame your own players for missing key free throws in this series, and making arrogant mistakes (time-out). If Dirk had hit those 2 free throws in game 3 and 5, this series would most likely have been over. SO THERE! Hell if he hit ONE OF THEM they would be up 3-2 going back to Dallas, and this series would still be over. You call Wade's shot a circus one, but that is Wade's game, he is just that damn good. He was fouled and the officials got the call right.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">Im telling you its Karma Rockets got screwed in game 5 last year w/ Finley being out of bounds, and now the officiating doesn't go your way 1 year later. It tastes so sweet. Difference, we had a real argument, they don't.</div> Stop holding a grudge. You guys lost by 30+ in Game 7 so blame your team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OMG you are a hypocrite. When Nowiztki was fouled in game 3 by Haslem (and missed one free throw) why didn't you get pissed off at the officiating, they could have let it play out. Haslem hit him on the shoulder, but if Dirk wasn't such a softy he would have still got it to go in (I am exaggerating to prove a point). </div> Who says I didn't complain about that call? JBB was down then I believe anyway so you wouldn't know. Also did that call decide the game? NO. That wasn't with 1.9 secs left so it's invalid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I see that as the same thing, but Wade WAS SHOVED BY DIRK and Harris grabbed/pulled down on his fore arm. 2 fouls they could have called. One official WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF WADE and saw Harris grab his arm, but didn't want to call the ticky tack foul...one sided my ass...the official behind saw Dirk sneakily shove Wade. You see Dirks hand fly up after pushin him to try to avoid the call, but it was their.</div> Watch the play again, Wade still was in complete control, he didn't shove Wade. It didn't change his momentum at all. The "shove" didn't ruin Wade's balance before the shot. I will agree that Harris slapped Wade, but no picture or evidence that I have seen says he grabbed and pulled his hand down. Like I keep saying you need your palm to grab something as big as his arm. That ref didn't want to call that ticky tack call, he is the right one. Do you realize that this entire season could have ended on a ticky tack foul call? It's a pretty ironic way to end the season, but still a season as great as this could end on that foul call. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">STOP WHINING ABOUT THAT CALL. I have seen Dirk get way more biased star treatment then that. Blame your own players for missing key free throws in this series, and making arrogant mistakes (time-out).</div> Dude Dirk is a star, Wade is a star, they get calls throughout the game that the typical player would not get. That's just how it is. I don't agree with it at all, I think they do deserve some star treatment, but it is ridiculous how much star treatment that they get. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Dirk had hit those 2 free throws in game 3 and 5, this series would most likely have been over. SO THERE! Hell if he hit ONE OF THEM they would be up 3-2 going back to Dallas, and this series would still be over.</div> You told me. You win. Did you actually read any of my post before. I already addressed most of these issues that you are bitching to me about. I know Dallas is to blame not the refs. I'm not blaming the refs for Dallas losing the game. I'm blaming the refs for taking control of the game and ending it themselves. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You call Wade's shot a circus one, but that is Wade's game, he is just that damn good. He was fouled and the officials got the call right.</div> So would you be happy if they called this foul in an OT game with 1.9 secs left against the Rockets in a game as crucial as this? No you wouldn't. You would be raising hell. When you post please try to keep your hatred for the Mavericks completely out of it or hatred for anything. I try to keep my hate out when I post. btw, does your pic actually make Dirk look like he's pushing. It doesn't look like he's pushing at all to me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> think Dirk Nowitzki has to step up in the next two games. He's played decent, but he needs to be playing spectacular like he did in the Phoenix series.</div> I agree, if Dirk puts in a another stinker tonight, the mavs season is over with......it's as simple as that imo.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">So would you be happy if they called this foul in an OT game with 1.9 secs left against the Rockets in a game as crucial as this? No you wouldn't. You would be raising hell. When you post please try to keep your hatred for the Mavericks completely out of it or hatred for anything. I try to keep my hate out when I post. btw, does your pic actually make Dirk look like he's pushing. It doesn't look like he's pushing at all to me.</div> I would be a little upset, but their is clear evidence of the foul. When Finley was out of bounds and stole it, that is just plain obvious. I bitch at things worth bitching at. In this case it could go either way, and Wade got a little star treatment for taking the Mavs 1v1 the past 16 min. He deserved it. The foul was called before the shot, so the official didn't need to see the ball missing the entire rim as evidence to call the foul. My picture is a picture, if you have watched the video as many times as I have (4x), you would know that that is when the official called the foul. It is just a friggin picture, how the hell is it supposed to show you an action such as a push? You know Dirk plays dirty, so just because it looks like a small shove to you, don't believe it. My pic also proves they got the call right (which everyone was bitching about). Dirk was the one who shoved him first, then Harris grabbed him. Watch the video slowly. You don't notice that push that well because Dirk pushes him in the same direction he was going. But towards the end, you see Wade going down too fast. Just because he put his hand on Wade and took it off the next second, doesn't mean it wasn't enough to completely throw his shot off. I think Dallas fans are way to upset about this foul, simply because the game was in their hands until Howard called the time out. They choose to blame the officials rather than their own players. Its seriously getting way out of hand. I have seen teams get it way worse. The official's f'd up, but didn't cost you the game. You guys had 2 seconds left w/ a time out.
last year I was upset about the game 5 missed calls, but I quickly got over it the next day, because I realized that's the only thing you can do.
