First Artest, Bell, Terry, Posey, now Stackhouse suspended? C'mon David Stern, don't you know your taking away from the intregity of the game. These WNBA rules Stern has implimented in the NBA is not gonna do anything but drive fans away. Remember when teams would "send a message" by fouling the opposing team hard, well those days are over. Now you'll get suspended for simply shoving another player. Stern needs to realize it's a players game, and not the corporate elite's. I know he wants to clean up the images of the players, but when he starts playing with the rules and taken away from the game, that's when he either wakes up or steps down from commissioner. Nobody wants to see players throwin punches at each other, we can all agree on that. But simply pushing a player or throwin an elbow isn't worth losing a series. Maybe a technical foul, but it ain't worth a series. I'm actually rooting for Miami, but when I heard Stackhouse got suspended I was highly disgruntled lol. If this keeps up, the NBA will LOSE DIE HARD FANS. Do you agree?
I don't agree with that assessment. You say elbowing someone shouldn't warrant anything more than a technical? Many players have had concussions, broken noses, teeth knocked out, etc because of elbows. Would you rather have a series determined by an injury to a player? The NBA is a business and it has to protect it's players. The NHL has started to enforce similar rules with has made the "goons" almost irrelevant. These were the players who were not talented enough to league on skill alone but instead their sole purpose was to fight and sometimes injure people. Now the NHL has no room for these sorts of players in the league. How is that a bad thing?
Also, the fact is that many people hated physical, wrestling, low scoring games in 90's. And, we all saw how the game pans out when the league allowed more physical plays. Once the league changed the rule for lesser physical plays, the scoring went up, games got more exiciting, and the popularity went up. I don't think players really mind of increasing popularity and more cash in their pocket by playing less physical. Also, Stackhouse just didn't push Shaq. He was running in full speed, slammed Shaq like a linebacker, and didn't make any attempt to block the ball. Maybe, Stackhouse did it in order to embrace himself against the collision. But what he did was enough to get suspension. Besides, if he didn't get suspended, why can't Shaq runs in full speed and bodyslam one of Dallas player while he is on the air?
I also wanted the Heat to win because I had picked them to win. But after Stackhouse's suspension and the general officiating of game 5 (I think Wade got some of calls that normally would not have been calls in a pivotal game of the Finals; ie, see last play, I really don't see a foul, he attempted a circus shot) I don'tk now who I want to win anymore. In regards to general officiating, maybe there are more casual NBA fans now, but I hate all the stoppage in games caused by tacky fouls on the perimeter that do not disturb the dribbler/offensive player at all. I think it takes away from the general continuity of the game and takes away from the defense aspect of the game. In regards to the Stackhouse foul, I think it warranted a flagrant, he sohuld've been fined. But I don't think he should've been suspended, at least not serve it in the Finals. Even Shaq said, the NBA game was much more physical. NBA players are being paid millions, who cares if they fall once in awhile and get some bruises, it's a man's game. I'm not a proponent of throwing elbows at faces, necks, or undercutting someone, but the Stern is trying to make the game into a little girl's game and it's sickening me.
Stackhouse deserved what he got, because that wasn't just a hard foul. That foul was very dangerous, he didn't make a play on the ball but instead took a cheap shot and hit Shaq while he was airborme. You can't do that, someone can get hurt way to easily.
League is getting soft, sometimes you wanan send a message to the other team. Its really starting to annoy me these cheesy suspensions.
At first, I disagreed with the suspension. But considering Stackhouse's long history with physical confrontations (including last year when he injured Joe Johnson on a fast break), I think a suspension was warranted.
I'm pissed about it, I must say. I'm an old school kind of guy, after Stackhouse didn't get ejected after what he did to Shaq, if I were the Heat coach, I would send someone out to crack him in the face. That was just how I was brought up, if someone does something to you then go right back at him. Take no **** from anybody. That being said, I'm not the kind of guy that is going to go out and intentionally elbow a guy for no reason. That stuff is just plain wrong. Stackhouse for example was clearly not happy about the result of the game and wanted to take it out on Shaq. For now I think David Stern is just trying things out. He obviously was concerned when "The Brawl" occured about the safety of fans and players. This is a little harsh for just suspending players left and right but by next season I think it will be easier to tell what is a dirty foul and what is a hard foul...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't agree with that assessment. You say elbowing someone shouldn't warrant anything more than a technical? Many players have had concussions, broken noses, teeth knocked out, etc because of elbows. Would you rather have a series determined by an injury to a player? The NBA is a business and it has to protect it's players. The NHL has started to enforce similar rules with has made the "goons" almost irrelevant. These were the players who were not talented enough to league on skill alone but instead their sole purpose was to fight and sometimes injure people. Now the NHL has no room for these sorts of players in the league. How is that a bad thing?</div> Im sorry, but this might be the single most assanine thing I've ever read on this board. Seriiously, you shouldnt be allowed to post your opinions on the internet. I know free speech is important but my gracious! Did you ever watch the NBA in the 80's? no? Go back and watch some tapes. Not only is it the best basketball youll ever see but its way more contestive than todays game. There are hard fouls, there are elbows and theres even (gasp!) a fight every now and then! yet somehow with all this physically agressive play, you dont see players going out on stretchers every night! what a revalation! In fact it was all the more fun to watch because of it and David Stern is trying to change all that and make this league more like the WNBA. Im not gonna get started on the NHL but one of the top 3 reasons for the decline int he leageues popularity and watchability is that theyy dont let them fight anymore
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">Im sorry, but this might be the single most assanine thing I've ever read on this board. Seriiously, you shouldnt be allowed to post your opinions on the internet. I know free speech is important but my gracious! Did you ever watch the NBA in the 80's? no? Go back and watch some tapes. Not only is it the best basketball youll ever see but its way more contestive than todays game. There are hard fouls, there are elbows and theres even (gasp!) a fight every now and then! yet somehow with all this physically agressive play, you dont see players going out on stretchers every night! what a revalation! In fact it was all the more fun to watch because of it and David Stern is trying to change all that and make this league more like the WNBA. Im not gonna get started on the NHL but one of the top 3 reasons for the decline int he leageues popularity and watchability is that theyy dont let them fight anymore</div> Well if you watch sports just to see violence than I feel sorry for you. A fight does not make a good game. An elbow does not make a good game. I prefer to see talented players for what they can do. Perhaps you should just stick to watching the WWE. You can get all the of those things you miss right there.
thats pretty much what I figured you'd say. You have to understand though that you're using the arguementative fallacy of transforming my arguement in an attempt to make it easier to attack. I was not argueing that an elbow or a fight makes a game worse. I was making the point that the practise of refs allowing players to play a more physical game even if it means allowing the occasional elbow or hard foul without automatically suspending the player makes for a much more competitive and intense game in general. One of Sterns bggest mistakes as commissioner has been to take the physicallity out of the game
Since when was a hard foul or "an occasional elbow" and automatic suspension in the NBA? The NBA looks at the degree/intent of the foul and whether the players have had any history of violence. I agree that there are too many ticky-tack fouls that are called that hinder the flow of the game but overall it has let talented players show their skill instead of being grabbed or interfered with. I don't see anything wrong with that. In terms of the NHL, the product is a lot more exciting in terms of seeing talented players and what they can do. I don't want to see no-talent hacks in the league just to start a fight or so they can slow down players like Lemieux, Ovechkin, Crosby and so on. Sports are based on stars and if the stars can't display their skill then what's the point? The point is you need a balance. In the past, it has favoured the defensive player and now it is favouring the offense. Once they find a median, the overall product will be improve.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">Since when was a hard foul or "an occasional elbow" and automatic suspension in the NBA? The NBA looks at the degree/intent of the foul and whether the players have had any history of violence. </div> the NBA has drastically changed the way it officiates games. Look at the suspensions that were handed down in the postseason this year. Even veteran players who have been around 10 or so years have been laughing at them because they're competly unnessecary and are only working to take an element out of the game that contributed to its greatness for decades. The stackhouse foul on shack. The posey foul against the bulls. The artest foul against hte spurs. NONE of these would have even been deemed "hard fouls" let alone suspension warranting flagrants in 80's. yes the game is all about showing off the players skills. Being an enforcer on the court or rink IS a skill whether or not the namby-pamby fascists want to admit it or not.
You can't use anything that Artest does as a basis for an argument. He is suspended because of his history. If they just let him go with a fine or a warning, what's going to make him stop from doing it again? I don't consider being an enforcer a skill. I can go out there and elbow/punch someone in the head. Doesn't mean I have a skill. If you can't make it in the league in this era with the new rule changes, then your skills are obviously pretty worthless.
It absolutley is a skill whether you consider it to be or not. Just ask anyone who ever played with Maurice Lucas or Cam Neely. Players like Maurice Lucas in the NBA and Cam Neely in the NHL are legends who made their teams better and made the game itself better and a big part of it was because they knew when to go out there and stand up to the other team by any means nessecary. They knew how much agression was just enough and knew when the right time was to bring it. Not just any goon can go out there and impact a game with his brain or his muscles like those guys.
Cam Neely doesn't support your argument at all. He would have made it in the NHL on offensive skill alone. I'm talking about guys like Brashear, Domi and Probert. Other than being an "enforcer" they have little or nothing to offer.
