I'm apologizing for comments made about Musselman last season for not being more of an x's and o's guy. Turns out he actually is because of his dad, but the problem was the Warriors team never liked to play that fundamentally sound way so Musselman caved in so that the team could feel comfortable. Thus, to this very day we still see guys standing around, not knowing what to do as the guards jack up ill advised shots and rock the ball back and forth. Plus, Muss probably is a defensive minded guy, but what could we do with Jamison/Murphy forward tandem? With Murphy hustling less than he used to with the new contract and Dunleavy becoming a slightly better defender than his sophmore year, I think we're still going to never play any defense until we get rid of one or the other... I think Murphy is more of the possibility and not by choice. So we better hope our offense is a monster if we're keeping both (which I doubt, unless we're getting Shaq or Yao or Duncan). The one that kills me is the Warriors are still not learning plays... That's just hurting themselves. The Warriors have to practice it or they'll never get it right when they don't get the liberty to run out or they need to manage the clock in their favor.... The Warriors are like people who don't speak English trying to succeed in the United States. They better hope their kids speak English well or they better practice it enough to speak and teach it to their kids or its only going to hold them and their children back in opportunities in life. I guess this is why Mullin should really stick with not firing a coach every two years like this franchise has done. These guys need to practice and practice and practice. And eventually, the offense becomes smoother even with not much inside presence as long as the big guys inside can catch and throw it back out. This means get rid of Foyle, of course. It will help us win a few more wins by having some sort of organized script to respond to situations if the point guard can lead and recognize what plays to call out. Maybe with some corrected free throw shooting that will add on another few more additional wins. Of course, we ideally need a franchise guy or more stars and some defense. I think having both will dictate what tempo we play and also it will create some reliable passing options if the player can pass/catch/make good decisions. Anyway sorry Muss for saying that you weren't an x's and o's coach or defensive guy. This Warriors team will never do both unless they practice or get better talent who are capable of all these things.
If you look at the game today, IMO games aren't always won on Xs and Os. They're won on heart, savvy, and -- I hate to say it -- athleticism. When I go to open gym, I don't care if I'm friggin Jerry Tarkanian (we all know I mis-spelled that), if the other team has a 6'9" dude with hops, the play book simply goes out the window. Now, I'm not undermining the importance of the coach. But IMO, the NBA is different than highschool hoops. In highschool, games are won by coaching, team execution, and fundamentals. But in the NBA, coaches need to juggle much more than the play book. Muss found the best talent in each player, and maximized it, good or bad. Montgomery took his playbook to the lockerroom and tried to plug the players into it. Muss was clearly more successful with a less talented group of players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">If you look at the game today, IMO games aren't always won on Xs and Os. They're won on heart, savvy, and -- I hate to say it -- athleticism. When I go to open gym, I don't care if I'm friggin Jerry Tarkanian (we all know I mis-spelled that), if the other team has a 6'9" dude with hops, the play book simply goes out the window. Now, I'm not undermining the importance of the coach. But IMO, the NBA is different than highschool hoops. In highschool, games are won by coaching, team execution, and fundamentals. But in the NBA, coaches need to juggle much more than the play book. Muss found the best talent in each player, and maximized it, good or bad. Montgomery took his playbook to the lockerroom and tried to plug the players into it. Muss was clearly more successful with a less talented group of players.</div> The plug-in approach was a BIG problem. (and I'm pretty sure that's how Tarkanian is spelled...seems it should have another i but that looks wrong.) Getting to be a lottery pick SHOULD weed out guys who won't/can't learn,who are seriously stupid,physically handicapped. If you look at Dun (in college) and see Larry Bird,you have a drinking problem or dirty glasses. If you get a 220 lb guy,bulk him up to 245,wou gain one thing-lose another. We played smallball at a snail pace,without much ballmovement. How is that logical? We had Dun-Fish-Baron combine for near 600 missed 3's.. .you'd think that concept would have been flushed. Murphy is capable of 17-12 with at least average D,but was wasted,will likely get swapped for junk and AGAIN we will see an ex Warrior have a nice long career elsewhere while we remember nothing about the bums we got in the deal. Tactics,X + O's are great,but fit it to reality,make it simple,go with what works. Do not say "it works on paper" and figure the players put out all that energy yet insist on being subpar. Foyle sets a lot of picks. He leaves the paint sets a pick or screen...and so? Does Fish use it for getting off a shot? Does Dun get space to slash to the basket..nah. .they just dribble a few more feet,stop pass to another perimeter guy who takes a worse shot-- all we did was sacrafice a rebounder inside to gain NOTHING. Does Monty say,forget the picks-stay inside? Does he say USE the pick one way or another? Does he say SIT YER ASS DOWN until you can execute? NO. I can only guess that the "fake pick" is a Monty tactic that on paper just scares opponents into a comatose state 1- Monty goes. Things are getting worse-not better. 2- THEN we figure out how to get players up to their potential,to deploy + develop,instead of frustrate and misdirect 3- Finally,we think in terms of trading,beyond the deals we may do for the Hopeless Trio- Foyle, Fish and Dun.
Look guys, we're on the outside as fans so it may seem like these guys are just making it up as they go along, but they're really given a set of presets to work from. I mean otherwise what is the point of a coach? How does one avoid becoming unpredictable? Run plays. The reason other teams can get away without much x's and o's is because they got a superstar which makes the game come easier to everyone else. We don't, so we have to play the Pistons way or the Jazz way or the Grizzlies way and play hard on defense and find some way to get offense if we're stopped. We don't have a good enough defense to run out a lot, so we have to figure out what we can do to outproduce the other team offensively without wasting energy running down the floor only to get beaten back down. Let's also not forget we shoot a lot of threes running just like we shoot desperation threes when guys aren't moving their feet off the ball to get open and there's no inside presence to go to because of the crap team design! All I know is we need more talent in the right places, a strong foundation, enough chemistry, organization so guys don't stand around (this requires x's and o's and we've seen far too much standing around for the last few years. Even real vets like NVE complaining there wasn't enough organization and that things were too predictable, and this was under Musselman who already knew that the rookies didn't like playing organized). Plus, this season and last, I can't recall how many times we switched up our roster to find an answer for our slugs and it just wasn't there at center and small forward. Fast or Slow, a lot of things suffered and I'd like to think based on the Warriors 12 consecutive losing seasons history and the number of coaches fired, it was the players that need to be held accountable. Since Montgomery wasn't going to rock the boat like Musselman did in benching guys and holding players accountable like Richardson or Dunleavy, Mullin was going to find his own guy that would play his guys. Well, Mullin got his wish and fans start attacking Mullin's coach who is only instructed to play the GM's signings. I think that's totally unfair. Plus, it's not like Monty didn't care. He yelled at guys like Foyle and Pietrus for playing like dummies. And you know what? If your center and small forward depth is Foyle/Euro project + Dunleavy/Euro Project, chances are they probably won't do what you instruct them to do, they'll get in foul trouble, or they won't have enough skills or knowledge about the game to take advantage of their athleticism. So you see? What this franchise needed all along was just plain balance of attack. Then we can complain about coaching because then there's no excuse why we couldn't have won if guys made their free throws, shot a decent %, played defense, got rebounds, set picks when guards call for them, moved well off the ball, avoided turnovers etc. What we had now is just uncoachable because our bench depth, center, scoring, defense, and floor leadership was terrible. This team was already unproven that it can win more games than it loses. Wins in last March for a team not making the playoffs since 94 doesn't mean playoffs next season because we landed Baron and he played the remainder of the season. I mean c'mon everyone knows that games near the end of the season hardly mean anything. Portland or Atlanta could go on a win streak and they'd still suck the next season if their GM didn't do something to improve the team. What moves did Mullin make in bolstering our defense and inside presence? None. So I don't think run n' gun would necessarily mean we outscore the other team throughout the entire game. We just don't have the energy to keep playing like that and try to make some stops on defense while looking to score in other ways besides dunks and three pointers. The coach was set up to fail plain and simple, yet he's doing what he's been ordered to do by his boss. Play his signings and develop rookies in a way where they aren't set up to fail or become tired of this franchise! GM Gary St. Jean cleaned up sucktard David Twardzick's mess, so what is Mullin's excuse when he had nearly a clean slate? Foyle, Fisher, Dunleavy, probably the Murphy one. I mean I believe in continuity so we can get something of value for these guys, but overpaying these guys just ruined that. Luckily, Jrich is a bargain IMO. He's got Richard Jefferson money and I think that's fair.
You put size and athleticism out there and you will lose against the better prepared and better run team. Look at the Mavs and the Heat, were they the best sized and most athletic teams out there? No way. They won because they ran the plays, offensively and defensively, and executed. You win when you execute. The Heat won in the 4th quarter last night not because Wade went 1 on 5 and scored 20 in the 4th, they won because they executed better, Haslem, Posey and JWill hit huge shots on run plays, not scramble athletic plays. Mavs did not hit those shots. Warriors have been horrible in that respect. Monty's fault or the players? I say the players. Players need to buy in to the system and run the plays better than the other team runs their plays.
Yes! Thank you philsmith! But damn dood did you really have to sport that Dunleavy sig I made you? It's embarassing when we're both trying to make the same point here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">You put size and athleticism out there and you will lose against the better prepared and better run team. Look at the Mavs and the Heat, were they the best sized and most athletic teams out there? No way. They won because they ran the plays, offensively and defensively, and executed. You win when you execute. The Heat won in the 4th quarter last night not because Wade went 1 on 5 and scored 20 in the 4th, they won because they executed better, Haslem, Posey and JWill hit huge shots on run plays, not scramble athletic plays. Mavs did not hit those shots. Warriors have been horrible in that respect. Monty's fault or the players? I say the players. Players need to buy in to the system and run the plays better than the other team runs their plays.</div> I'm not saying you just throw five olympic athelte freaks out there and let them run wild, but I disagree with you: IMO, the players win the games, not the playbooks. Dwayne Wade won that series on pure creative athletic magic, and while -- of course -- he benefitted from set plays and screens, I would argue that far more often he benefitted most from his intangible ability to simply create. But I'm not saying you should have 5 athletes simply play street ball. That's absurd. What I argue in my earlier post is that it's more important to identify those abilities in each player and maximize that potential, rather than just show up with a playbook and plug players into it. If you have Steve Nash, you don't run a grind-it-down half court offense. If you have Shaq, you don't run a small man's run-n-gun offense. If you have Baron Davis, you don't force him to involve every player on every possession. You let him create. You still design a game plan, but it must cater to the strengths of your players, not merely Xs and Os. Because ultimately, IMO, players win games, not playbooks. This is an area that Mussleman is superior to Montgomery. Muss still ran set plays, but if Earl Boykins is going to give you 20 points in the 4th quarter against the Nuggets --sheit -- sit on the playbook and let the kid ball.
If we catered to all the strengths of our players, Murphy, Dunleavy, Foyle, Baron, Jrich wouldn't be starting together. We don't really have a healthy franchise player to expect us to have gotten better... we're just treading water and hitting mid lottery.
If we catered to the strengths of our players Derek Fisher would only catch-and-shoot and would never dribble the basketball otherwise.
Well who else dribbles besides Baron then? Don't say Monta! I'm not that upset with Fisher because he is the team's best pure shooter and free throw shooter. Sad. What was dumb was signing him to begin with without no dribble pentrators or inside scorers that can kick out. Jrich is the team's best scorer and a nice 45% one, but does he deserve the label as a shooter? Shooters don't miss at the line. See Peja, Rip, Nash, Ray Allen, Redd, Mobley, Nowitzki...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Bruce Bowen? </div> Ahhh, the nba swingmen who can hit threes but can't hit free throws. Never seen that before.
