Rock4life <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ur point? The Miami Heat are a different team than that Lakers team. Wade's role was different that Kobe's, and Phil's system was different the Riley's. Kobe is hands down better</div> Different teams? Different roles? What I forgot to mention was Kobe's 04' team losing 1-4 to Detroit Wade's winning 4-2 against Dallas ___but the guys had different roles and different teams- and thats the only relevant knowledge right there huh right Rock? Forget about winning and all that cause>> ' their roles were different'.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe he dropped close to those numbers 1 game. Bottom line is, how many 'chips does lebron have? Oh and how many finals MVPs does Kobe have? That's right. It's too bad Kobe can't get along with his teammates, or Shaq might have stayed. So did Kobe put up Wade's number against Phoenix? No. Did Lebron put up Wade's numbers while shooting almost 70% against Detroit. Ahhhhh I DONT THINK SO! Quit hatin' and just bow down to Wade, the dude's the best there is right now.</div> Just wanted to point something out about Kobe and Final MVPs. He never received one, but he was the MVP during the real games in those Championship years. Kobe was the player responsible for getting the Lakers past the Western Conference opponents and Shaq took the glory in the Finals by beating the JV teams of the Eastern Conference. Also this "Kobe doesn't get along with his teammates" myth is really played out. Shaq left because he wanted an extension, and the Lakers weren't going to pay him. Would you pay Shaq $33Million a year? No player is worth that type of coin in the NBA. Also keep in mind Shaq was out of shape when he was in Los Angeles, he refused to defer to Kobe the way he defered to Wade, he called the owner a mother f'r in public during a preseason game. Shaq wanted to leave Los Angeles, it's really that basic. Another point about Shaq, he always claimed it was his team. Well if it's his team then he should do everything possible to keep it together shouldn't he? Yet Kobe gets blamed for the breakup?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Just wanted to point something out about Kobe and Final MVPs. He never received one, but he was the MVP during the real games in those Championship years. Kobe was the player responsible for getting the Lakers past the Western Conference opponents and Shaq took the glory in the Finals by beating the JV teams of the Eastern Conference. </div> I'm not doubting you, but can you refer to a particular series in which Kobe was clearly more valuable than Shaq?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not doubting you, but can you refer to a particular series in which Kobe was clearly more valuable than Shaq?</div> The Portland Trailblazer come back and also against the Spurs. Kobe was also amazing in those games against the Kings. Kobe was closing out all those games for the Lakers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">What about the 04' finals? Yeah he played well during the "real games" in the WCF and semi finals</div> It's a little off topic, but let's get into the '04 Finals and Kobe. Going into the series Larry Brown designed defensive schemes to focus on shutting down Kobe Bryant and forcing his teammates to make open looks. The only player the Pistons were worried about on the Laker roster was Kobe Bryant and they were adament about preventing him from beating them. The key to making the defensive schemes work was being able to guard Shaq with just one player. The Pistons were the first team to expose Shaq as the not so dominant player he once was by relying on Ben Wallace to defend him one on one.
The one thing I've learnt to do, is just ignore every facet of the word "greatest player", because you know that by mid season next season, some one else will be considered the greatest player in the league. The media chops and changes it's opinion more than Jim Jackson does teams. Going into the playoffs, Kobe was the best player in the league, after the LeBron got his triple double in game 1, he was the greatest player in the league, once he got knocked out, Dwyane Wade became the greatest player in the league. It's a joke really.
Kobe was closing out those games because Shaq had been dominating them throughout. This made it much easier for him. Let him get into a flow early with less pressure, and then since Shaq created those circumstances, to allow Kobe to be in the flow when the 4th quarter rolls along and some guards need to start scoring, Kobe did. Dwayne Wade on the other hand had a Shaq that was on the bench for much of the playoffs, is far less dominant than in his Finals MVP years, and Dwayne Wade is clearly established as the go to guy on the Heat. There were no, "Im the leader of the team." wars with Shaq, because Shaq knew he wasnt the #1 option. Much like he knew he was the best option for the lakers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">Finals MVP? That's great. I'm not taking anything away from the man's game. He's showed me and everyone else that he's the real deal. He's a superstar and he derserved the MVP. But starting to talk about him being the best player ever is complete bull to da ****. Dwyane Wade is great, but let's face it, the guy's team was better than a lot of the other superstars out there('Bron,Kobe,etc.) Let's not forget, Bron carried that piece of **** team all the way to the 2nd round and almost beat the Pistons. I hate to say it, but Bron and the boys softned up the Pistons for Wade. Kobe carried his shity ass team with not inside game what so ever and almost beat the great Phoenix Suns. Wade had a legendary coach in Pat Riley, a legendary player in Shaq, and a cast full of hungery veterans who came up and produced in the playoffs. If Kobe or 'Bron were to be put in the situation, you can't stop and say that there would never be a championship for them.</div> The only thing I agree with you on that post is that the Cavs softened up the Pistons for the Heat. But even if they wouldn't of somehow, I still think the Heat would of beat the,
I dont believe in the idea of "softening up". Thats just a ridiculous way to try and make Wade look like less than he is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, Kobe is a better defender. Second, Kobe is a better scorer. He's also better in the clutch, and a better free throw shooter in the clutch. Put Wade on the Lakers right now, they'd be in the lottery. Simple as that. But Wade is destine for greatness, and could be in the Hall of Fame before he retires</div> Kobe is a better defender than Wade for sure. I agree with you 100%. But the problem is defense is a little overrated right now. The league won't let defenders get physical anymore. Thats why scoring averages are booming. (I still think Kobe could get 35 +though) Unless you're a Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest your defense is not going to be as effective. This is Dwayne Wade's moment. Congratulations. He's a great player. He carried them to the title with Shaq acting stupid this year. Congrats to D-Wade. I still prefer Kobe or Lebron over him. Also congrats Alonzo Mourning you deserve it
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NBA MAN:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is a better defender than Wade for sure. I agree with you 100%. But the problem is defense is a little overrated right now. The league won't let defenders get physical anymore. Thats why scoring averages are booming. (I still think Kobe could get 35 +though) Unless you're a Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest your defense is not going to be as effective.</div> Also, great individual defense doesn't mean quite as much as great individual offense. It's a matter of logic. On defense, how players coordinate together is far and away the most important factor in limiting the opposition. It's very difficult for a single player, especially a shooting guard, to "take over" on the defensive end. So while Kobe could be a better defensive player, the actual impact is dampened a bit by team effects (so we could correctly ask, how much more valuable is that better defense, anyways?). For instance, the Lakers gave up significantly more points per possession with Kobe on the floor than with him off the floor. I'm not saying this proves Kobe is a bad defensive player or a negative influence on the defense end (anyone who watches him play knows, in general, he's good defensively though he has a penchant for coasting now and then). Still, his superior defensive talents/abilities don't really translate that much into a better team defense. If you swapped Kobe with Wade, would the Lakers be giving up more defensively (that, ultimately, is the important question in regard to their respective defense)? I'm not so sure.
I agree with everything Chuck Taylor said Wade is one of the top 5 players in the league but. Lebron carried that sorry team to the playoffs you can say shaq is not the same player that he once was but he still can get 20 and 10 on every night .Zydrunas won't do that every night some nights and shaq is still the best center in the game so don't act like wade carried the team when he has the best center in the game helping him.
Wade is the best player and gifted player in the NBA today, Period. Why?? Because he got insane clutch FT and he will get FT whenever he wants even without getting fouled as long as the refs and the NBA loves him. I can see the next MJ is here.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but he still can get 20 and 10 on every night </div> No he can't.......I think that this series proved it......Shaq can still be a factor, but he can't take over a game when he wants to anymore.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ManHops23:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with everything Chuck Taylor said Wade is one of the top 5 players in the league but. Lebron carried that sorry team to the playoffs you can say shaq is not the same player that he once was but he still can get 20 and 10 on every night .Zydrunas won't do that every night some nights and shaq is still the best center in the game so don't act like wade carried the team when he has the best center in the game helping him.</div> The "best center in the game" averaged 14 points (with subpar efficiency, due to his inability to hit free throws), 10 rebounds, and 3 assists in the Finals. Solid numbers, for a role player. I'm not going to say that Wade doesn't get more help than LeBron. But that doesn't automatically make him an inferior player.
I'm lovin' this Wade hating 1 day after they win the championship. I'm 100% positive no haters would come out if they had lost. This is quite the joke, let the best team in the world Miami Heat enjoy their championship, they are the best team and nothing can take that away, even if their best player is being hated upon, even more now. This is typical of people to hate when a player becomes this great or there are that many bandwagoners, Wade never used to get any heat (pun intended) being the guy behind the spotlight playing well. Keep hatin'.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is the best player and gifted player in the NBA today, Period. Why?? Because he got insane clutch FT and he will get FT whenever he wants even without getting fouled as long as the refs and the NBA loves him. </div> Man fans like you are exactly why I don't care for Kobe too much....Kobe gets his calls also....what do you think happened in game 6 of the 2002 WCF?????....so please stop....you look silly.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">It's a little off topic, but let's get into the '04 Finals and Kobe. Going into the series Larry Brown designed defensive schemes to focus on shutting down Kobe Bryant and forcing his teammates to make open looks. The only player the Pistons were worried about on the Laker roster was Kobe Bryant and they were adament about preventing him from beating them. The key to making the defensive schemes work was being able to guard Shaq with just one player. The Pistons were the first team to expose Shaq as the not so dominant player he once was by relying on Ben Wallace to defend him one on one.</div> I agree that Kobe didn't get as much credit as he should have for those series', but give me a break. You don't think Detroit and Dallas' defenses weren't geared completely towards Wade? Johnson would throw in zones and other tricks just to stops Wade <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with everything Chuck Taylor said Wade is one of the top 5 players in the league but. Lebron carried that sorry team to the playoffs you can say shaq is not the same player that he once was but he still can get 20 and 10 on every night .Zydrunas won't do that every night some nights and shaq is still the best center in the game so don't act like wade carried the team when he has the best center in the game helping him.</div> Did you watch any Heat games this season at all? Shaq was never a 20, 10 guy consistently. After Shaq's poor playoff performances, Yao is now the best center in the game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> TopLake Wade is the best player and gifted player in the NBA today, Period. Why?? Because he got insane clutch FT and he will get FT whenever he wants even without getting fouled as long as the refs and the NBA loves him. I can see the next MJ is here..... </div> Yep, Kobe never gets superstar calls, ever does he. You give Laker fans a bad name dude. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also this "Kobe doesn't get along with his teammates" myth is really played out. Shaq left because he wanted an extension, and the Lakers weren't going to pay him. Would you pay Shaq $33Million a year? No player is worth that type of coin in the NBA. Also keep in mind Shaq was out of shape when he was in Los Angeles, he refused to defer to Kobe the way he defered to Wade, he called the owner a mother f'r in public during a preseason game. Shaq wanted to leave Los Angeles, it's really that basic. </div> The point is, Kobe and Shaq could never get along, while Shaq visibly defers to Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rock4life Ur point? The Miami Heat are a different team than that Lakers team. Wade's role was different that Kobe's, and Phil's system was different the Riley's. Kobe is hands down better </div> Aren't you the same dude who said the Rockets would win the title this year, and were better than Dallas, Detroit, Miami, etc HANDS DOWN? There goes your credibility. While you are Just stubbornly saying "Kobe is better hands down" Durvasa is using stats and commom sense to support his arguments.
