basketball isnt a game of statistics like baseball is. there are so many little things that stats dont take into account. ability isnt measured by stats in the nba. there isnt a who is a better passer statistic. so, why do people insist on using stats to prove things. i prefer to watch the game, and form opinions based on that. kobe is a better defender than wade, if you watch both of them, you will clearly see that. kobe is a better shooter as well. I see kobe make amazing shots all the time from anywhere on the court, while I see wade making equally amazing shots, but from only a select number of spots. so i give kobe the edge. passing is complicated, i tink that wade is a smarter passer in that he finds open guys better and gets it to them. kobe makes more difficult and flashy passes, so who is better. There is no right and wrong. people view the game differently. I dont really want to choose, i love watching both of these guys play a lot.
According to you we cant ever compare any players then right? Brent Barry is better than KG-- I mean sure KG gets more points rebounds and assists and all that ( which are way overrated imo), but Brent is a better 3 pt shooter, he is more athletic (remember the dunk from freethrow about 9 years ago), and at least he's gotten out of the first round more than once. Using your stance on the topic; Meadowlark Lemon is probably better than Kobe. He can shoot like 75% from half court! And talk about some flashy passes- wow-, true his defense wasnt all that great, but he made up with his scoring. How the hell is there no right or wrong? Of course there is; ohhhh, I dont recall yall having the same stance a few weeks or months back - <u>back when Kobe was still considered top. Naw, yall didnt have no problem saying he was better than everybody</u>--- but here come Wade and LBJ and going back to <font color=""Red"">Jordan</font>... and all of a sudden <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no right and wrong. people view the game differently. I dont really want to choose,</div> Yall are some straight clowns-- I dont see how I've invested this much energy into this forum as it is
^^wow, can you think beyond one level ever. i said that basketball isnt a game measured by stats, so you have to watch the game to form your own opinion. and there isnt a right and wrong comparision between very close players. it is all in the eye of the beholder. if people knew exactly who is better than everyone else, than the draft would go how good a player is in the pros right in order. Why are there onesided trades ever? because different people see different things in players. why does jerome james have a huge contract? because someone thought he was a lot better than some other guys he obviously wasnt. you can go ahead and think that kobe isnt any good all you want, but you are the only one. and if you dont like him so much, how come every single thing you ever post on this board is about him?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are there onesided trades ever? because different people see different things in players</div> Like Dirk for Tractor Traylor? Because Dirk wasnt getting 27 and 10 back then; it wasnt a one sided trade. ... # 100 <font color=""RoyalBlue"">I dont recall yall having the same stance a few weeks or months back - back when Kobe was still considered top. Naw, yall didnt have no problem saying he was better than everybody--- but here come Wade and LBJ and going back to Jordan... and all of a sudden <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no right and wrong. people view the game differently. I dont really want to choose,</div></font>
yes, but if people could tell so obviously who is better, than why did they make this trade. someone thought that tractor was better. i never said kobe was better than jordan! what is wrong with saying that kobe and wade are even in my mind? and seriously do you even read post? i asked you like 3 questions and you answered none of them. you werent even close to one.
You didnt just stop at saying 'Kobe and Wade are even- in my mind', you went as far as to say "<u>There is no right and wrong. people view the game differently</u>. I dont really want to choose," As you also said stats are very overrated---- so basically acccording to you <u>NOW </u>(since Wade has just won) there is no way to compare players universally at all. <u><font color=""DarkRed"">Whereas before Wade had done all this, </font></u>I can find numerous posts from you and many many other users of "Kobe is hands down the best in the league" " Kobe is better than everybody". Dont you find that a little too convenient?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">You didnt just stop at saying 'Kobe and Wade are even- in my mind', you went as far as to say "<u>There is no right and wrong. people view the game differently</u>. I dont really want to choose," As you also said stats are very overrated---- so basically acccording to you <u>NOW </u>(since Wade has just won) there is no way to compare players universally at all. <u><font color=""DarkRed"">Whereas before Wade had done all this, </font></u>I can find numerous posts from you and many many other users of "Kobe is hands down the best in the league" " Kobe is better than everybody". Dont you find that a little too convenient?</div> please find where is said kobe is the best in the league hands down there is no right and wrong, i dont want to choose, means they are even in my mind. according to me you have to compare players by observing their playing styles while watching them play. seriously can you read well at all, did you even graduate high school? and why all the hate towards kobe, i have seen lots of people ask you this but you never answer. did he not give you an autograph or something?
haha... I see we are done here--- Kobe is done, Laker fans are done, quit the Bs if you dont wanna base the conversations on CONSISTENT LOGIC. You are done, they are done-- I AM DONE. yall aint talkin about ****, you give nothing but excuses of why Kobe wasnt able to this- or do why he couldn’t do that----- but never give other players their credit. You are hypocrites; you see how most of the perennial Kobe fans have trailed off, everyone except you>>> because at least they had sense to realize when the argument was lost--- while you dont even know what the hell you're saying, so out of ignorance you still think you're conversation is valid. You have made a career out of arguing against the science of logic, and you’d be the posterchild for hypocrisy. You come on here and make rash statements condescending approved legends like Bird— while at the same time venerating players like Kidd, Dirk, and AI—>>then want to discount our comprehension of the game?? You should run for a political office sometime in the future as you’ve gone back and forth on more statements than every user on the forum at any given time combined. You post something ridiculous;~ and when proven wrong or hypocritical will ‘excuse’ yourself / then go to the next forum and post something even more nonsensical than the first. You are what’s wrong with these type forums are even more what wrong with the art of debate itself. Up is not up and 1+1 doesn’t = 2 with you unless it benefits you. >>>> But I, unlike you will give credit where it is due. I will give you credit for the one thing you have truly managed to do—and you have truly managed to waste mine an other user’s time unlike any other I can think of. When it comes to nonsense, son, you are the truly the <u>G.O.A.T</u>
you have never given anyone credit in these forums, and what are you talking about. you still after being asked by many users, many times, have not answered why you hate kobe so much. and you said i said that kobe was the best in the league hands down, please show me where i said that. why do you think you are always right. you feel that in every single forum you win, and that everybody else is talking nonense. seriously be respectful, and consider other peoples views. you NEVER even respond to any of my points, but i am the one who flip flops all over the place. I am not a KOBE FAN. i enjoy watching his game. as i said i am neutral on this debate. i think jordan is better than kobe. but i like to argue when you make rediculous statements on how kobe isnt even that good. you never used stats or facts, which is what you always claim to do. so please. show me all the times i've flip flopped on an issue. and even if i have, whats wrong with getting your mind changed by other peoples arguments on these forums, that is the point. now i am sure you wont read this like how you dont read anyone elses post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">haha... I see we are done here--- Kobe is done, Laker fans are done, quit the Bs if you dont wanna base the conversations on CONSISTENT LOGIC. You are done, they are done-- I AM DONE. yall aint talkin about ****, you give nothing but excuses of why Kobe wasnt able to this- or do why he couldn?t do that----- but never give other players their credit. You are hypocrites; you see how most of the perennial Kobe fans have trailed off, everyone except you>>> because at least they had sense to realize when the argument was lost--- while you dont even know what the hell you're saying, so out of ignorance you still think you're conversation is valid.</div> Wade had a great season, but he's not Kobe. Why? first off Kobe has been great longer than Wade. Wade had a tremendous season but needs to sustain that level of play for atleast 4 more seasons. Plus, Kobe always gets the best of Wade when they match up. Being that Kobe is a better offensive player and defensive player. Wade won the title, but Kobe also had a great season also. They weren't even supposed to make the playoffs, yet they made it to the 2nd round and pushed a better Phoenix team to 7 games. He proved that he can play a team game and also be unselfish, all while averaging a career best 35pts in the regular season. I kinda think you lost the argument...............
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade had a great season, but he's not Kobe. Why? first off Kobe has been great longer than Wade. Wade had a tremendous season but needs to sustain that level of play for atleast 4 more seasons. Plus, Kobe always gets the best of Wade when they match up. Being that Kobe is a better offensive player and defensive player. Wade won the title, but Kobe also had a great season also. They weren't even supposed to make the playoffs, yet they made it to the 2nd round and pushed a better Phoenix team to 7 games. He proved that he can play a team game and also be unselfish, all while averaging a career best 35pts in the regular season. I kinda think you lost the argument...............</div> Wow, I didn't know Kobe made it to the second round. Anyway, quit with the "kobe has been better longer, and give it a few more seasons" BS. We're talkin best player in the NBA RIGHT NOW, not who has had a better career, who will be better, or all that crap. You Kobe fans are just saying "he is better, it's obvious" while Wade fans are actually pulling up stats. You're blinded by your ignorance, because that stats have clearly favoured DWade. If you want to put forth an argument about head-to-head match-ups between the two, or who is better offensively and defensively, then put up or shut-up, let's see some stats. I don't think you really had an argument to begin with...................
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I didn't know Kobe made it to the second round. Anyway, quit with the "kobe has been better longer, and give it a few more seasons" BS. We're talkin best player in the NBA RIGHT NOW, not who has had a better career, who will be better, or all that crap. You Kobe fans are just saying "he is better, it's obvious" while Wade fans are actually pulling up stats. You're blinded by your ignorance, because that stats have clearly favoured DWade. If you want to put forth an argument about head-to-head match-ups between the two, or who is better offensively and defensively, then put up or shut-up, let's see some stats. I don't think you really had an argument to begin with...................</div> Kobe Bryant 35pts 5rebs 85%ft 34 three pt% 41mins per game Playoffs:27.9pts 49fg% 6rebs 5ass 1stls Dwayne Wade 27pts 6rebs 78%ft .171 three pt % 38 mis per game Playoffs: 28pts 49fg% 5rebs 5ass 2stls You tried to throw stats in my face, but in the end YOU LOSE AGAIN. Why? because they basically averaged the same in the playoffs, shooting percentage, points per game, rebs & assist. That's saying alot, being that Kobe played very, very, VERY conservative, while Wade played his little heart out. If you add the regular season stats, Kobe had a FAR better season. Heads up, I don't have the stats. But I watched every game they played and I know Kobe dropped 40 on that kid atleast once. You guys are stuck on ur personaly dislike for Kobe too much. GET OVER IT. Basketball wise, he's the best and the stats and rings prove it. You watch too many commercials
"Wade played his little heart out?" Isn't that what you should be doing in the freaking playoffs? Or are you supposed to play "very conservative" and bail on your team in the 2nd half of game 7 like Kobe did.... I see you left out fg% during the season, maybe because Kobe shot at .450 while Wade shot at .482. You watched every game they played? Well, Kobe never dropped 40 on the Heat, good try though. He did manage to win one game against the Heat though. Kobe had a far better season? As the best player and leader on his team, Wade lead the Heat to a far better record, and a championship, with him being crowned MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">"Wade played his little heart out?" Isn't that what you should be doing in the freaking playoffs? Or are you supposed to play "very conservative" and bail on your team in the 2nd half of game 7 like Kobe did.... I see you left out fg% during the season, maybe because Kobe shot at .450 while Wade shot at .482. You watched every game they played? Well, Kobe never dropped 40 on the Heat, good try though. He did manage to win one game against the Heat though. Kobe had a far better season? As the best player and leader on his team, Wade lead the Heat to a far better record, and a championship, with him being crowned MVP.</div> But ur leaving out the biggest piece. The Heat came in the league as contenders, they had a good team. The Lakers weren't even supposed to make the playoffs. It's like Kobe can't win for losing. If he shoots too much you call him selfish, if he passes the ball and caters to his teammates you STILL call him selfish and say he "bailed out on his team". How can anybody be better than Kobe Bryant when you hold him to the highest standards of anybody. If I'm not mistaken, the Lakers are one of the youngest teams in the NBA. They lost because nobody could hit a jumpshot, not because of Kobe. What's interesting is if the Lakers lose it's ALL Kobe's fault. If the Heat lose, it's Shaq's fault. Yet when they win, Wade is the one with all the glory as the so-called leader The playing field isn't nowhere even
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">Finals MVP? That's great. I'm not taking anything away from the man's game. He's showed me and everyone else that he's the real deal. He's a superstar and he derserved the MVP. But starting to talk about him being the best player ever is complete bull to da ****. Dwyane Wade is great, but let's face it, the guy's team was better than a lot of the other superstars out there('Bron,Kobe,etc.) Let's not forget, Bron carried that piece of **** team all the way to the 2nd round and almost beat the Pistons. I hate to say it, but Bron and the boys softned up the Pistons for Wade. Kobe carried his shity ass team with not inside game what so ever and almost beat the great Phoenix Suns. Wade had a legendary coach in Pat Riley, a legendary player in Shaq, and a cast full of hungery veterans who came up and produced in the playoffs. If Kobe or 'Bron were to be put in the situation, you can't stop and say that there would never be a championship for them.</div> When Jordan retired in following the '93 season, the Bulls still won 50+ games and made the 2nd round of the playoffs. By your same logic, he must not have been that much of a difference maker. As for the rest of the post, there really isn't anything really worth addressing.
I hear you... how the same fans wanna make excuses for Kobe when back in 04' in his 8th season when he got his ass handed to him in the Finals against Detroit 22pts 38% 2.8 ast Yet after this, wanna go on about how he would've won if he were in place of Wade. Why even a Laker fan would insist this argument valid when they had a very similar and overall comparable if not better team in 04'. <font color=""Purple"">Go back in time,- if we had the 04' Lakers and 06' Heat going into the Final's playing their respective opponents>> <u>are yall Laker fans saying that you would have hands down said the Heat we're the better team goin in and had a much better opportunity to win?</u> Would you still be having the same insecurities about your team and making the same excuses going in to the Finals' right after knocking out Minnesota? Even back then you guys knew that there was something wrong about that 04' team going into the Finals' huh? Yes Kobe was there and Shaq was great--- but you guys didnt have any faith that that team was good at all huh? You arent just making excuses after the fact right?--- get the hell outta here. </font> Kobe definetly had his opportunity, as he had much less work to shoulder ( check durvasa's stats on Where does Kobe rank in History http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...2395#post642395) and if ever there was a time to show how good you can play, there it was. Dont come up here 2 years later talkin like that scenerio hadn't played itself out before. Kobe had 5 years more experience in the league, 6 more years experience playing with Shaq and the other teammates---- and still wasn't even comparable to Wade win it mattered most. .... BTW, Wade shot 49.5 % this year
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">I hear you... how the same fans wanna make excuses for Kobe when back in 04' in his 8th season when he got his ass handed to him in the Finals against Detroit 22pts 38% 2.8 ast Yet after this, wanna go on about how he would've won if he were in place of Wade. Why even a Laker fan would insist this argument valid when they had a very similar and overall comparable if not better team. Kobe definetly had his opportunity, as he had much less work to shoulder ( check durvasa's stats on Where does Kobe rank in History http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...2395#post642395) and if ever there was a time to show how good you can play, there it was. Dont come up here 2 years later talkin like that scenerio hadn't played itself out before. Kobe had 5 years more experience in the league, 5 more years experience playing with Shaq and the other teammates---- and still wasn't even comparable to Wade win it mattered most.</div> Opportunity? The guy won three rings!, and played great in the Lakers run. What else opportunity is there for him to take, he already proved he's one of the greatest. The Heat's role players played a bigger role in the playoffs, spreading the court for Wade and giving him wide open looks. If Wade played terrible, his team picked up the slack. There is no way he shoulder'd more of the load than Kobe. The Lakers were Kobe & Shaq. The Heat are Wade, Shaq, Posey, Walker, Mourning, Jwill & Haslem. Stop spinning the truth. Wade had a great season, but to say at this point he's better than Kobe is only doing a disservice to Wade. Kobe had a phenomonal season also, proving that he can be a leader on a underachieving team. But his track record speaks for itself, he doesn't need to prove anything.
Rock4life <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Heat's role players played a bigger role in the playoffs, spreading the court for Wade and giving him wide open looks. If Wade played terrible, his team picked up the slack. There is no way he shoulder'd more of the load than Kobe. The Lakers were Kobe & Shaq. The Heat are Wade, Shaq, Posey, Walker, Mourning, Jwill & Haslem. Stop spinning the truth.</div> durvasa, may I? durvasa: Game Score = (Points x 1.0) + (FGM x 0.4) + (FGA x -0.7) + ((FTA-FTM) x -0.4) + (OREB x 0.7) + (DREB x 0.3) + (STL x 1.0) + (AST x 0.7) + (BLK x 0.7) + (PF x -0.4) + (TO x -1.0) Using the above formula, it's straightforward to estimate how responsible a player was to his team's success during the playoffs (his individual "game score" divided by the team's total "game score"): Code: Kobe Shaq Rest of Team 2000 10.4% 38.8% 50.7% 2001 21.0% 33.1% 45.6% 2002 22.8% 33.8% 43.4% Wade Shaq Rest of Team 2006 40.0% 15.1% 44.9% Wade absolutely dominated. I'd wager that the 40% figure would rank amongst the highest in Finals history.
This thread is hating at its finest. How are you going to make a thread dissing a guy who just won a championship and got Finals MVP... Leave the guy alone and the comparisons alone. And stop with the excuses of why hes so good, hes putting out the stats because hes that good you guys are just blinded admit it, Fact of the matter is he just got Finals MVP and in his 3 years in the NBA he has accomplished more than Lebron, and has put up better numbers then Kobe in his first three years. ^^ Thats the truth you could say this and that garbage and say excuses of why its like that, but what im saying is fact. Wade almost doubles what Kobe did his first three years = Fact Although Lebron is amazing, Wade still has a ring and a finals MVP= Fact I am not saying that Wade is better then Kobe or Lebron, but I am saying he is on the same exact level, and you have to admit that, if you don't then your blinded for sure. The funny thing is...hes only been in the league for three years and still he is on the same level as the other players mentioned and is top 5 in the nba at such a young age. You have to respect that.
