<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wade was on the Cavs, that team would of never made the playoffs. It's very simple. They would of been in the lottery. If he was in the Lakers, they would of won 20 games.</div> According to who?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">OH PLEASE, DON'T GIVE ME THAT BULLSHIIT. Don't give me the "How would you know?" answer. You know damn straight that they would be in the lottery.</div> And that's the extent of your argument? If you actually care to look at the evidence, last year in the regular season the Cavs were -6.3 pts per 100 possessions (-7.1 per 48 minutes) with LeBron off the court. Obviously, they struggled. The Heat? They were -7.0 pts per 100 possessions (-7.9 per 48 minutes) with Wade off the court. In other words, the Heat actually struggled more without Wade on the court than the Cavs did without LeBron. Those numbers (you know, "facts") pretty much deflate your entire argument.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Best Kept Secret:</div><div class="quote_post">According to who?</div> According to people who know basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wade was on the Cavs, that team would of never made the playoffs. It's very simple. They would of been in the lottery. If he was in the Lakers, they would of won 20 games.</div> Please back up your statement with some facts that would help you. Wade would have taken both of those teams to the playoffs in my opinion, just like you think he wouldn't. Please back up your statements with reasons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">And that's the extent of your argument? If you actually care to look at the evidence, last year in the regular season the Cavs were -6.3 pts per 100 possessions (-7.1 per 48 minutes) with LeBron off the court. Obviously, they struggled. The Heat? They were -7.0 pts per 100 possessions (-7.9 per 48 minutes) with Wade off the court. In other words, the Heat actually struggled more without Wade on the court than the Cavs did without LeBron. Those numbers (you know, "facts") pretty much deflates your entire argument.</div> So if you took Wade and 'Bron off the heat and cavs, the cavs would be better?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">According to people who know basketball.</div> Please in this thread you have given no facts to support your argument and you have not answered any point someone else has brought up with statistics, only hypothetical situations. Your argument is a joke.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">According to people who know basketball.</div> Who, you? I haven't heard anyone analysts even touch this debate. Do you want to know why? BECAUSE IT IS STUPID TO DEBATE ABOUT HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS and to say that Wade absolutely would be a lottery team 100% with the Cavs, when there is absolutely no way to tell. I'm not saying that they would 100% be a playoff team, I said that there is a very high chance that they would be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">So if you took Wade and 'Bron off the heat and cavs, the cavs would be better?</div> According to those statistics, yes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">According to those statistics, yes.</div> According to the statistics? Stop hiding behind the the damn statistics. Are they better or not. Yes or no.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">So if you took Wade and 'Bron off the heat and cavs, the cavs would be better?</div> The Heat played a ton of games without Shaq and Mourning. The rest of the Heat were wildly inconsistent. In the regular season, you could easily argue that Wade was more valuable to the Heat than LeBron was to the Lakers. Further, in the regular season, the Heat were -4.0 points per 48 minutes with Shaq on the floor, but Wade off the court (in 378 minutes). The Cavs were, on the other hand, were -0.2 points per 48 minutes with Ilgauskus on the court and LeBron off the court (in 266 minutes). Most of these numbers suggest that that Wade's impact on the Heat was greater than LeBron's, even relative to what they did with/without their centers. But I guess when you can rely on "common basketball knowledge", facts don't mean much.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you seroius? Drew Gooden had a much better year than Zo. Zo only played sparingly throughout the year, while Gooden had a big role in the Cavs success. Why does supporting cast matter if you are comparing the players? Compare the skill level and the players attributes, not skill level. If you are on that, Wade led a team with Odom into the playoffs and into the 2nd round his rookie year. He had who, Caron and Rasual Butler alongside them? Damon Jones?(he's considered crap in Cleveland)</div> Pat Riley designed most of the offense for Dwyane Wade and Shaq. I'm bringing in the supporting cast because everyone is saying How many rings does Wade have? How many rings does LeBron have? It makes it seem that if you don't have as many or more rings than the other player than you cannot be considered as good as the other player PERIOD. But for a second, take LeBron and Wade off their respective teams. Who do you think has the potential to go deeper in the playoffs? Keeping that in mind, LeBron almost beat the Pistons by himself. Wade can at least rely (sp?) on his other players to bail him out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Flava23:</div><div class="quote_post">Pat Riley designed most of the offense for Dwyane Wade and Shaq. I'm bringing in the supporting cast because everyone is saying How many rings does Wade have? How many rings does LeBron have? It makes it seem that if you don't have as many or more rings than the other player than you cannot be considered as good as the other player PERIOD. But for a second, take LeBron and Wade off their respective teams. Who do you think has the potential to go deeper in the playoffs? Keeping that in mind, LeBron almost beat the Pistons by himself. Wade can at least rely (sp?) on his other players to bail him out.</div> exactly
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Flava23:</div><div class="quote_post">Pat Riley designed most of the offense for Dwyane Wade and Shaq. I'm bringing in the supporting cast because everyone is saying How many rings does Wade have? How many rings does LeBron have? It makes it seem that if you don't have as many or more rings than the other player than you cannot be considered as good as the other player PERIOD. But for a second, take LeBron and Wade off their respective teams. Who do you think has the potential to go deeper in the playoffs? Keeping that in mind, LeBron almost beat the Pistons by himself. Wade can at least rely (sp?) on his other players to bail him out.</div> Take LeBron and Wade off their respective team, neither team would have even won a single series. They would essentially be lottery teams. A lot of people don't get it, but it's very simple. Miami is simply NOT a good team without Dwyane Wade on the court.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Take LeBron and Wade off their respective team, neither team would have even won a single series. They would essentially be lottery teams. A lot of people don't get it, but it's very simple. Miami is simply NOT a good team without Dwyane Wade on the court.</div> I agree. Miami is very bad without DWade. DWade made Miami look good many times. But the Cavs without Bron even more worse.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree. Miami is very bad without DWade. DWade made Miami look good many times. But the Cavs without Bron even more worse.</div> If that's your opinion, fine. All I'm saying is that the evidence (at least during the regular season) does not support this. So it's silly for you to go crazy when someone disagrees. Just calm down and accept that there are perfectly legitimate arguments to be made for both sides. But let's suppose you're right. Let's say the Cavs would be even worse with LeBron. Well .. the Cavs with LeBron are clearly worse than the Heat with Wade. So, Wade took a very bad team (your words), and made them a champion. LeBron took an even worse team (arguable) and got to the second round. So, how does it follow that LeBron is therefore better than Wade? Even if we suppose Wade had more around him, he also accomplished a whole lot more. What, exactly, is your argument?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Flava23:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me rephrase it, which team would have a better regular season record?</div> Regular season record is best estimated by point differential. Based on point-differential, the Cavs would have had a better regular season record (though it would be close). Again, Shaq and Mourning (easily the Heat's two best players after Wade) did not play a lot of minutes during the regular season due to foul trouble and injuries.
