<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">dude the euroleague is not a ymca league; he plays against legit pros. in this league of pros his been the mvp twice and in that same period propelled his team to a euroleague championship. when carmelo did the same thing against 19 year old's living out of their parents basement we knew he was ready for stardom but when parker does it against professionals he's a scrub.</div> i believe the pacers also has a Euro MVP...3 time MVP if i remember it correctly... and look how well he did last year
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hohoyoyoyo:</div><div class="quote_post">i believe the pacers also has a Euro MVP...3 time MVP if i remember it correctly... and look how well he did last year</div> i'm not going to make any excuses for sarunas but he choose the wrong team. a half- court, slow it down team doesn't suit his exceptional skill set- if he got traded to the kings he would become an overnight sensation. sarunas is not a guy u want to talk trash about because u got to remember that he single-handedly eliminated the american team in the syndey olympics.
i never said saruna can't play and yeah he beat team USA in olympics but that's under international rule and it stresses team play in international tournaments and that's where non americans can excel in NBA it's where americans shine (usually) because of how the rules are made up for them sarunas won't be as bad as he was last year if he play for some other teams but he won't be allstar level not because he can't do anything just that he is undersized and won't cope well under the current NBA rules where individual star talent weights a lot for marketing pruposes it's sad but it's true
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> i believe the pacers also has a Euro MVP...3 time MVP if i remember it correctly... and look how well he did last year </div> I gotta mention beforehand dude, you have got to be perhaps the most pessimistic Raptors fan I've seen around here. First and foremost Sarunas is an exceptional player and yes like deception said, he would thrive under the right system if he were given the playing time and the Pacers system is not right for him at all, that much has become apperent. He would thrive much more in a system such as the Kings or perhaps the Mavericks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> because u got to remember that he single-handedly eliminated the american team in the syndey olympics. </div> The USA team in the 2000 Sydney Olympics did not lose to Lithuania. In fact, I distinctly remember watching that game and although the Lithuanians cut it close, the US pulled out and the victory was followed by Vince Carter raising his index finger in a ridiculous "# 1" gesture even though they barely beat the team. However, I do remember that one game, I believe in the 2004 tournament where Sarunas had around 5 or 6 threes, including a bunch of clutch shots in the closing moments (including an and-one play from the three point line). I really don't think you're giving Euro players enough credit. Honestly, it is apparent that they need time to get adjusted to the NBA (just look at Dirk's rookie numbers) so I don't think you should raise the roof with expectations for Andrea. I believe his rookie season will either be similar to Dirk's in numbers or mimic that of Andrew Bogut's in productivity. Wherein, he will be sucessfull and *solid* from a basketball point of view but he won't make an immediate impact like say, Chris Paul. Patience is undoubtedly the key. If you guys can give two years of patience for Hoffa, you can't do the same for a TWENTY YEAR OLD who was a damn good player when he played overseas? It's his rookie season and furthermore he hasn't even played a game, cut him a break. Frankly, I am glad BC rehauled the previous Raptors lineup. It's not like we were winning with them anyway. I like the acquisitions of TJ, Rasho, Andrea and Parker. The way I see it, with Chris Bosh as well as Mo Pete in our team, it gives us a decent group of players, that can, pending on thier health, can make a push towards the playoffs. Although the lower half of the Eastern Conference playoff spots might filled with up and coming teams (Charlotte, Washington, Orlando etc), I still believe the Raptors will make noise. If not this year, then definetly next year, but it will take time for the team to develop into what everyone wants to see. Franchises aren't just built overnight.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hohoyoyoyo:</div><div class="quote_post"> in NBA it's where americans shine (usually) because of how the rules are made up for them</div> From the look of things, Tony Parker might just be one of the top PG's in the league and Manu Ginobili is one of the most outstanding sg's today.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Was a joke Well that's why he's not getting max money.</div> lol, I know, I was joking too, but it's hard to really get that out on the internet.
[quote name='spawn Patience is undoubtedly the key. If you guys can give two years of patience for Hoffa, you can't do the same for a TWENTY YEAR OLD who was a damn good player when he played overseas? It's his rookie season and furthermore he hasn't even played a game, cut him a break. Frankly, I am glad BC rehauled the previous Raptors lineup. It's not like we were winning with them anyway. I like the acquisitions of TJ, Rasho, Andrea and Parker. The way I see it, with Chris Bosh as well as Mo Pete in our team, it gives us a decent group of players, that can, pending on thier health, can make a push towards the playoffs. Although the lower half of the Eastern Conference playoff spots might filled with up and coming teams (Charlotte, Washington, Orlando etc), I still believe the Raptors will make noise. If not this year, then definetly next year, but it will take time for the team to develop into what everyone wants to see. Franchises aren't just built overnight.[/QUOTE'] Finally someone else who thinks the same! Bunch of pessimistic ppl in here! I completely concur with ya! I've been saying that all through this thread. I would agree with you on Bargs comparing to Boguts numbers, but I think he'll get a few more points and less boards say maybe 11 and 5. I've been saying all along that this team needed to be blown up like BC has done and build a solid base before moving forwards. Sure there are quick fixes out there ala Harrington etc but they wouldn't turn us into a contender. And heyoyoyoyo ....call me crazy but Chris Paul is said to be undersized and I don't see him having any trouble. There are lots of solid players that are supposedly 'undersized' for their position and succeed, hell, even dominate at their position. Is Big Ben not succeeding b/c he is undersized to play center?
spyware: i never said international players won't succeed...i just said USUALLY they don't Jones: patience is a virtue and being undersized is fine I never doubted chris paul after seeing him play...that kid can play and play very well take diaw for example...classic undersized "big man" who plays like 4 positions anyways...toronto is becoming euroleague and i just don't like the fact that you guys are still happy about it and proud of what the front office has done seriously...look at the other eastern conference teams that are worse than toronto last year, with the exception of NYK, who will never be cured ...toronto isn't stronger than any of them and that is alarming
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hohoyoyoyo:</div><div class="quote_post">anyways...toronto is becoming euroleague and i just don't like the fact that you guys are still happy about it and proud of what the front office has done seriously...look at the other eastern conference teams that are worse than toronto last year, with the exception of NYK, who will never be cured ...toronto isn't stronger than any of them</div> I don't understand how you think this is a bad thing. I mean, there's a chance that Colangelo's plan could flop, but I don't understand how you can just bash his entire vision outright like that, just because you don't know anything about these players. You need to bring some sort of justification. Also, I take exception to Anthony Parker being labelled as a European player, because it overlooks the fact that he was successful in college and would have been productive in the NBA, had it not been for his injuries. His game won't have to adapt to "our" game, because he's played, and been successful, in it already.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't understand how you think this is a bad thing. I mean, there's a chance that Colangelo's plan could flop, but I don't understand how you can just bash his entire vision outright like that, just because you don't know anything about these players</div> To me, it seems like this is one big science fair project to Colangelo: if it works, that's great but if not, I guess we'll just have to start all over again. That's what is concerning to me. If this thing doesn't work, we're in huge trouble and it will take some time before we can rebuild again. He's invested so much in this plan that we're totally screwed if this doesn't work out. He's committing all our money and resources into this. There is no Plan B.
No one is concerned about the Spurs always drafting Euros or bringing them in...a player is a player and if sooooooooo many euros on one team doesn't work then gms will still always trade for talented players and help 'diffuse' our allegeded euro problem. And it's not like we could get worse....let's be honest our team needed an overhaul and needed to become deeper and more talented...that's what's happened. Look at the bulls, minus the euro flav, they worked it how we are now...gradually built up their assets to the point they are now, they took it a step at a time and didn't sign any big name FAs until big ben, made astute trades and draft picks and they are one of the "models" for teams now. These guys are to him the best players out there...and really how are they not with such a weak FA market this year. There were other teams in the hunt for them so are those teams just as crak'd out? How are we screwed? I don't even understand...Plan B? A trade solves just about anything and I think we've seen that BC at least gets fair value for whoever he trades. (jury out on TJ / CV??) It's not like we're paying these guys money so huge no one would take them ala Harri Al / bonzo....houston traded for alston, the knicks traded for Jalen & curry so just about anything is possible. yoyo ho --> how are we weaker than them. did the knicks make radical changes? the wiz? the magic? the hawks? detroit? 76's? All these teams have question marks or didn't make changes....we've made some major upgrades in all areas that was causing us to lose games last year. can you say the same about the others?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hohoyoyoyo:</div><div class="quote_post"> seriously...look at the other eastern conference teams that are worse than toronto last year, with the exception of NYK, who will never be cured ...toronto isn't stronger than any of them and that is alarming</div> I dunno ... I think the Knicks could actually suprize some people this year. They have alot to play for and a coach who has his job on the line. I'm not expecting it to be performance of the century but i think it could be a mini turnaround. We know right now that we're building a team based on a pretty different model. It could succeed or fail but we can't bash it just for being different. The quality of play in the euro league is completely being under-rated, these players deserve some respect. Anthony parker put up good showings when playing Toronto and Orlando in preseason ball ... yes it was preseason but i don't think he's going to be completely ineffective on a nightly basis. I'd rather give a "risky" 3-year contract to Anthony parker than lock Bonzi Wells up for 5 years for a much higher price. I like what Colangelo did in the past with Phoenix and i think that it's worth noting that he got larger than expected contributions from players he acquired. Before landing in Phoenix i though Diaw was a decent player and a great Chris Bosh poster but i never thought he'd post the type of numbers he did this year. You can blame part of that on Steve Nash for sure, but if you watched the Suns play this year you can see that Diaw has some serious tallent as well. You could say something similar about Tim Thomas as well who everyone thought was hopeless until he landed in Phoenix and played a big role on their team. Colangelo saw things in these players that made them effective under his system that might have held them back elsewhere. So even though our team looks a little off the wall .. i have faith in our new GM to do something positive. I can understand the criticism at the same time, but i don't think Colangelo has ruined us by any stretch. I would have been way more disapointed if Colangelo blew the entire cap for the next 6 years Grunswald style and locked up FA's who are available rather than leaving us some flexibility to make changes in the future. The contracts of these players who are coming over are extremely flexible compared to what's on the market ...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> To me, it seems like this is one big science fair project to Colangelo: if it works, that's great but if not, I guess we'll just have to start all over again. </div> But....that's what all GM's do..Would you rather have an active GM like Colangelo or one that just sits on his ass all day? Not only did BC overhaul a losing Raptors lineup, he's surrounding Bosh with EXCELLENT role players (Parker, Mo Pete, Andrea), as well as a guard that is PASS FIRST and can feed him the ball. And after watching some clips of Parker playing, he looks like a solid deal to me. I mean, you can't be considered one of the best non-NBA players without showing nothing. I think you guys should give BC the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe if by year 2 or 3 there is still no change then ok, panic like some of you guys are doing now. But he's turned a young team with no direction to a young team that appears to be balanced and surrounded by a core that, if they gel together, can create noise. No point in being so pessimistic after 4 years of losing anyway. Worst we can do is match last year's record. After all, there won't be another horrendous 1-15 anytime this season so keep your head up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Not only did BC overhaul a losing Raptors lineup, he's surrounding Bosh with EXCELLENT role players (Parker, Mo Pete, Andrea)</div> Seems like this whole team is one big role player Hopefully Ford or Bargnani can develop into the kind of player that the we need.
Well, we have a superstar in Chris Bosh don't we? I agree though we need a second option who can really be a threat for opposing teams and I see that developing out of Andrea around his 3rd or 4th year in the league. I know that seems like a long time away but Bosh will be still only be 26 then and Andrea will be 24 or so...and with both of them reaching towards thier primes and improving I see them being strong and exceptional players that can take the Raptors far into the playoffs. But that's just thinking ahead in a best case scenario situation. Personally, I don't like to think ahead because anything can change any time so I'll judge BC and everything else when I feel the time is right....not when the draft was just completed a couple of weeks ago.
its funny how this thread was originally opinions on starting lineups... haha but ive got to say im enjoying reading the debate.
back to starting line up PG- TJ Ford SG- Morris Peterson SF- Anthony Parker PF- Chris Bosh C- Rasho Nesterovic ( for 2 months or so)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">To me, it seems like this is one big science fair project to Colangelo: if it works, that's great but if not, I guess we'll just have to start all over again. That's what is concerning to me. If this thing doesn't work, we're in huge trouble and it will take some time before we can rebuild again. He's invested so much in this plan that we're totally screwed if this doesn't work out. He's committing all our money and resources into this. There is no Plan B.</div> You're talking about it as if Colangelo's simply playing around or something. This man's probably brought in the most informed staff the Raps have ever had. I know what you mean about the lack of a backup plan. But it's not as if he's simply playing the lottery with these Euro/role players he's bringing in. He's obviously scouted extensively and is sure of himself with good reason. Also, Colangelo's a very assertive and shrewd GM. If this plan ends up falling through, I have no doubt he'd be able to recognize it and quickly begin rebuilding again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dothehustle:</div><div class="quote_post">back to starting line up PG- TJ Ford SG- Morris Peterson SF- Anthony Parker PF- Chris Bosh C- Rasho Nesterovic ( for 2 months or so)</div> I believe Mo Pete will be starting SF...right?
